Mothering › Forums › Pregnancy and Birth › I'm Pregnant › why NOT do an ultrasound?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

why NOT do an ultrasound? - Page 2

post #21 of 39
We are not doing US or doppler.

The reasons are fairly straighforward.
1) US can bring a lot of worry into the situation if everything does not look "perfect". Usually those babies are fine, and it wouldn't change anything for us if we did find something wrong.
2) I'm not convinced they are safe.
3) I've heard many stories of babies moving away from the US and doppler, which makes me think they don't like it. Anecdotal, but...

Hugs!
post #22 of 39
from what I understand a doppler has even more radiation than an ultrasound?
post #23 of 39
Thread Starter 
Well, the more I think about it and read, even the anecdotal stuff, the less I want to do it. I talked to dp again, and it's weird how he clams up so much about this. I told him that if he really, really feels it's necessary, that I would do it for his peace of mind. I don't want to be the hardliner who won't compromise on ANYthing (because there are bigger issues that I will absolutely refuse to compromise on, like planning homebirth and no circ), and I do want him to feel involved and like he does have some decision-making.

BUT I'm going to insist that he reads the article above that pp posted. And the other pps post about how she could tell the us was irritating her dd, she kept covering her face. I'm going to talk to him about when/why we would get an u/s, like if I were bleeding or our midwife was concerned.

docs here don't listen. If you try to tell them "the lowest dose u/s please" they'll just roll their eyes and even crank it up because they like to swing their "doc" around.

The prob is that I really don't want to do this. I really hope dp doesn't try to pressure me into doing it. We don't have a midwife, yet, and my experience with midwives here is that they are, sadly, pretty "medical". So if I had him on one side and a midwife on the other, it would be pretty hard to stick to my guns. And I want to avoid the fear/pressure to induce that may come if our baby reads "big" on the screen. I'm tiny, and even w/ dd there was pressure there and fear that was difficult for me to ignore because they kept saying, based on the u/s, that she was going to be HUGE. She was just under six pounds, and induced. She could've done well to "cook" longer, kwim?
post #24 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juvysen View Post
I'm sure. I'm not trying to say that everyone should have an ultrasound... I guess it's just that having *one* makes me feel slightly better. But on principle I agree with everyone else, that there is potential for risk inherent in the ultrasound, and they should be used mindfully.
I certainly wouldn't be worried about the placenta at a scan between 18-20 weeks though. And all the other things you listed are also things that can and I feel are better looked for, if one really desires the one scan, very late in pregnancy - like around 35 weeks instead of between 18 and 20. The placeta is still moving around at the usual 20 week scan and can indeed not be settled at all where it will end up. Quite a handful of people have a previa at the 20 week scan which only means they will need one then later on in pregnancy to see if it has moved...so I feel if you are going for just one, best to skip it at 20 weeks then and look later.

But this is also something your m/w should be able to feel and listen for (even with a pinard) - without the need of a scan. And as mentioned, also other signs there might be a complete previa - such as bleeding. A scan can not detect accreta.
post #25 of 39
Quote:
3) I've heard many stories of babies moving away from the US and doppler, which makes me think they don't like it. Anecdotal, but...
My son certainly did! - He would cover his face with his hands anytime it was brought near him (as seen on U/S). What worried me about this is that, if breech or other undesirable position is presented, then baby can perhaps be put in and even more undesirable position - eventually they can't move around as freely lol.
post #26 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by craft_media_hero View Post
The prob is that I really don't want to do this. I really hope dp doesn't try to pressure me into doing it.
Based on this, I really hope you just don't do it. I know for me, it's not good for my marriage when I do things I really don't want to do because dh wants me to.
post #27 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by ann_of_loxley View Post
My son certainly did! - He would cover his face with his hands anytime it was brought near him (as seen on U/S). What worried me about this is that, if breech or other undesirable position is presented, then baby can perhaps be put in and even more undesirable position - eventually they can't move around as freely lol.
Yes, my two kids both "ran" from the u/s every time and my dd covered her face very obviously at the u/s I had right before I had her. This little one very obviously reacts to the doppler; if s/he is asleep, s/he wakes up instantly and pushes very hard against the doppler and then "swims" to the opposite side of my belly. As soon as the doppler is gone, the movements stop or get less...I don't want to say frantic, but just less. I'm very grateful that my midwife listens for less than a minute with the doppler at each appointment, because my gut tells me it's doing something that the baby doesn't like.
post #28 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by ann_of_loxley View Post
I certainly wouldn't be worried about the placenta at a scan between 18-20 weeks though. And all the other things you listed are also things that can and I feel are better looked for, if one really desires the one scan, very late in pregnancy - like around 35 weeks instead of between 18 and 20. The placeta is still moving around at the usual 20 week scan and can indeed not be settled at all where it will end up. Quite a handful of people have a previa at the 20 week scan which only means they will need one then later on in pregnancy to see if it has moved...so I feel if you are going for just one, best to skip it at 20 weeks then and look later.

But this is also something your m/w should be able to feel and listen for (even with a pinard) - without the need of a scan. And as mentioned, also other signs there might be a complete previa - such as bleeding. A scan can not detect accreta.
Yeah, but you can see other things on the anatomy easier at 18-20, from what I understand (genetic diseases? lack of diaphragm/hole in it/whatever - I watched too many of the crazy birth shows. ) and it's early enough to decide on weird surgeries or whatever. I wouldn't be worried about previa at that point, but knowing if i had it, I might consider another later scan to check if it was partial or complete. Say at 38 weeks or something (I tend to go late). I wouldn't be doing an ultrasound a week or anything to see if it moved, like I've heard of some doctors doing...
post #29 of 39
I've never had any ultrasounds during pregnancy.

They have not been proven to be 100% safe for the baby.

There have been no proven benefits to "routine" ultrasounds- no actual improvements in outcomes for women who have had ultrasounds vs women who have not.

There's a very good chance of false positives- the doctor thinks she sees something wrong with your baby, orders more tests, you worry and panic from the time you hear the first results until everything is later proven to be OK.

Why risk the negatives (potential physical harm from ultrasounds itself and the more possible emotional harm from false positives) when there aren't any concrete benefits? It's all risk and no benefit!

I certainly would have consented to an ultrasound (or more than one) in case of a true medical indication- at that point the real benefits would likely outweigh the potential risks.
post #30 of 39
Mama, what I'm hearing loudest from your posts is worry and trauma from what happened to you last time. I'm sorry that happened to you.

Have a discussion with your partner about what you've said here. He may understand your fears as related to the previous experience you had.

Also, maybe a laundry list of all things that might be discovered in an ultrasound, the rate of occurrence and what you would do anyway if you did discover something (brain anencephaly, genetic defects, etc.). If you come to different answers about whether you'd terminate the pregnancy, you may have a whole lot more to talk about. I know you realize the risk of these things is very small, but perhaps from his POV he wants to find out even if the risks are small because they would be a big deal for him.

Maybe like you've heard anecdotally that your friends' babies have moved away from u/s, he could have heard things anecdotally too that cause him fear. Like my friend who three weeks ago discovered a genetic abnormality incompatible with life at her 18 week ultrasound. Talk, talk, talk!
post #31 of 39
Here's an article that just came up in my ddc:
http://www.planetc1.com/cgi-bin/n/v....&id=1155156248

It might not be from the most relevant source (regarding radiology expertise, that is), but it is full of interesting points and references some reputable people and research that you could investigate further. It also mentions how even the American Medical Association discourages the use of routine ultrasounds. Maybe reading it the words of such a mainstream medical organization would help convince your dp that this more than a crazy fringe concern.

You could try tracking down the papers that you think your dp would find most convincing (whether that means quick reading articles like the one above or hard core scientific journal articles demonstrating that routine u/s does not improve preg outcomes... they're all out there), bring those to him and try to open up the conversation that way. I totally hear you on wanting to compromise on the less important things and hold strong on the most important ones, but there is enough convincing information out there about this that you might be able to appeal to his rational side.
post #32 of 39
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruthla View Post

I certainly would have consented to an ultrasound (or more than one) in case of a true medical indication- at that point the real benefits would likely outweigh the potential risks.
Ruth, I totally agree with you about the false positives thing. I don't want to live in fear because a doctor took a measurement through a cloudy ultrasound that may/may not indicate a problem and then be stressing about whether or not our baby's healthy.

Can you tell me what you would have consented to an ultrasound for? Like what would be a true medical indication for you? I really don't know, I mean, beyond bleeding later in the pregnancy or a midwife finding problems with positioning?

Thank you all so much for the wonderful feedback on this thread. You are all really helping me. I think that I may be able to appeal to dp's logical side if I can get him to read the article links that y'all have posted. I want him to be "on my side" about this and not have it just be me overruling him 'coz I'm the mama, you know?
post #33 of 39
Ds turned away from the u/s and covered is ears and face with hands and arms. He did not like it. The tech told me they are taught to not aim it directly at the baby's ears and only short periods at the head. She couldn't tell me more about it, but I think that they are taught that means something, right?
I will have an u/s at 20 weeks to check for potential problems as I would then choose to have the baby at a hospital if he or she is sick. I might not do it. I definitely ruled out the early ultrasound, unless there is spotting or bleeding.
I wanted a doppler for rental maybe, but maybe my future mw can teach me how to use a stethoscope or fetosope to listen to the heartbeat.
post #34 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Athravil View Post
Here they will only look for sex if the parents ask for it.
With DS1 I had an ultrasound at 41 weeks to check amniotic fluid levels. As it turned out, my fluid levels were very high for being post-dates, and the baby was easily viewed even at 9 lbs.

I didn't ask to know the sex. They didn't offer to tell me. But his boy parts were readily visible on the scan, and so I found out he was a boy a week before he was born (and I had wanted to be surprised).

If you're watching the screen, you can figure it out for yourself at times.
post #35 of 39
I find this thread interesting. During my first and only pregnancy, I was unsure of the exact date of my last menstrual cycle, so (this was before i got on medicaid), DH and I went to one of the rite to life clinics just to get a free ultrasound to reassure ourselves of the due date. I must have been about 4 or 5 weeks pregnant (cant recall the exact date).

Part of my reason to get no more ultrasounds was because we were going to a CPM midwife. I couldnt find a way to get more medicalized care through medicaid without being enrolled in a program at a university hospital and having a CNM deliver my child. I was aware that some believed there were risks associated with ultrasounds, but my gut feeling was they just werent medically necessary for me to have a healthy pregnancy.

2 of my SILs were pregnant at the same time and 1 other SIL had recently given birth to a baby with Down's syndrome. She would never have known the baby had Down's if she didnt have ultrasounds that led to more testing (and I believe an ammniosentisis). She ended up saying she was happy to have known he had down's and that it wasnt a surprise. But I know she really struggled with it in making a decision, and I am not sure she would have been through so much stress if everything had been a surprise.
The other SIL who was pregnant would say things like "I LOVE ultrasounds" whenever some one asked if we would have another. She also told us that she wanted "All the testing". When the baby was 1 mo. it came out that due to some testing they believed for a second that their baby might be special needs. It turns out she wasnt at all. I am not sure how stressful that was for them to have a false positive test.

Two of my SIL also had that ultrasound facial scan done (not sure what its called). Does anyone know much about these? What types of waves are used to get such a detailed picture?
post #36 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by ursaminor View Post
Two of my SIL also had that ultrasound facial scan done (not sure what its called). Does anyone know much about these? What types of waves are used to get such a detailed picture?

From what I gather, the waves are rapidly scattered throughout the uterus in order to "animate" the object being scanned. People refer to this type of ultrasound as a 3D or even 4D ultrasound (the fourth dimension being time).

 


Edited by 2xy - 11/19/11 at 9:19pm
post #37 of 39

I have my own personal reasons as to why i will not endure another ultrasound, definately not before the first three months are over. Every woman is different of course, and as far as i have read many women have had different experiences with pregnancy. If you are one of the lucky ones, and have not experienced pregnancy loss and have had good experiences with your doctors and health care providers during your pregnancy, I am happy that that was your experience.

 

However, I have read countless comments from women giving advice to other women who have not experienced  similar heartache or cause for concern. I am definately one of the unlucky souls tht have so far experienced bad health care for my pregnancies, but have lost them and have found i am reaching for a far away goal of getting pregnant. when i know others have had this same experience, it still is way easier to have advice given from someone aring more on the causious side rather than from someone who would never have a cause for concern in the first place.

 

I agree with the comments being made that just because the majority of people say something is safe, does not mean it is safe. I recently discovered that one of the tests that is performed to find out if your baby has down syndrome has the risk of causing a miscarriage, it also is not completely accurate either. So, you tell me, especially if you would not consider aborting your child anyways, I wouldn't. and if you did, you may have aborted a perfectly healthy baby. Also, you could have the chance of it causing an unnessisary miscarriage of your healthy baby, just from the procedure alone.

 

My first pregnancy was reason enough for me to shy away from going to have an early scan. the first time i had an ultrasound, i was made to wait almost two hours after my appointment was suppost to take place, than asked if i could empty some of my bladder because it was extremely painful, I was told no. When I finally got to see the tecnician, she pressed on my stomach so hard it was excruciating. I told her I was in extreme pain, she did not listen to me at all, was very rude and basically just said thats because your bladder is full, like i didn't know that. after prodding and pressing on my stomach very hard she than said my bladder was too full and i need to let out some of the liquid. I was annoyed and in pain, but glad she let me let out some. I came back and she pressed again around my stomach with the machine, than said she couldn't see anything anyways, so she told me to empty out my bladder and did a vaginal ultrasound. through entire experience she did not say a thing and when she did it was rude or ubrupt. this was my first pregnancy and did not know what to expect. I also thought i may have gotten some reasurance or atleast something helpful from this. I left the clinic in pain and with no information at all about my pregnancy.

 

Shortly after this experience I had a extremely painful miscarriage. Not only did I not foresee a miscarriage from the ultrasound or get any useful information from it, I have a concern that it may have been a not healthy choice to have someone be so careless, and intrusive before the first trimester was over. I rushed to the clinic when i started bleeding and was experiening more pain than i ever had in my life, the doctor i had a look and new that  i miscarried. She was very caring and helped very much with my shock, which i would expect most doctor's or health care providers to be like, unfortunatly that is not the case. I was told to have another ultrasound. I didn't know what the purpose was really, I knew i miscarried and i just had to deal with it at home. I came back early the following week for the ultrasound, I was still raw with emotion and pain from previous miscarriage. the same thing happened with my appointment, i had a full bladder and was made to wait a very long time before my actual ultrasound. when my name was finally called, i told the nurse i was waiting a long time and am in a lot of pain. She said no and told me to change in a little room. I did, and then was told to sit there and wait, so I did; and while i was waiting i sat next to a door to a room with a woman listening to her babies heartbeat. It was really load and I could hear the technician and woman laughing. I was still so fragile, in pain and tired, I started crying and couldn't help myself but be in so much emotional pain. than the nurse called my name again, and i followed her to the hallway, but there wasn't anywhere for me to sit and she told me to just stand there. this was very physically painful. I ended up waiting for about fifteen min. just standing there, I finally asked her if i could sit down. She abruptly told me no, and the room would be ready soon. Finally my appointment with the ultrasound technician. She was not too unpleasant like the first one i had, but still the same thing, after all that waiting around with a full bladder she made me empty it and gave me a vaginal ultrasound. I left the clinic with no information whatsoever. And was really confused as to why I had it done it in the first place.

 

This was four years ago, and two miscarriages with no successful pregnancies so far. I wish tht more people would bring up the complaints and bad experieces, so it wouldnt' be so lonely dealing with such heartache. There are good health care proffessionals out there, but from my experience there are few and far between. There is a lot of information out there and it is difficult to sort thru but if you are dilligent and want to make your own mind up; instead of just going along with whatever everyone else is doing, you may find that doctor's are not always right. And this is how i see it, pregnancy is a very personal experience. I know for a fact that no one will ever be as concerned or causious with my own pregnancy as I will be, so I trust myself more. When it comes to an early ultrasound before the three months, if the reason is for dating the pregnancy, I would know as much as the doctor, or it would not be that far off. If there were any abnormality to detect, for one they could be wrong and two I would never abort a pregnancy anyways unless it were a tubal pregnancy, and i would  know something was wrong because of the pain. So, as far as getting an ultrasound, i dont' think anyone should be pressure to have one at all if they are concerned or feel it is unsafe.

 

I would never ever wish the grief and pain i have gone through on anyone, and I know that others have had similar or worse experiences than i have. And I would caution some woman to not give advice based on just the fact that they had such a good experience or no problems and they have been told that this is how it should be from their doctor. You could be wrong, and if you are like me, the first three months can be so fragile, I never want to take any risks with the next pregnancy, if i am ever so lucky to even get pregnant again. So, I just wanted to say that I would never want someone to tell me that i need to get an ultrasound, especially in the first three months, It does not seem worth it to me and if something were wrong i would know.

 

 

post #38 of 39

We choose not to have US unless there is a medical necessity. My reasons are very much the same as Ruthla's post earlier.

 

1. They are not proven safe or unsafe.  I'm not willing to go that route.  They did x-rays for how long on PG women?  I'm sure people thought the x-rays were safe too

 

2. What would we do with the results?  we're not going to terminate the pregnancy, so what if there is a cleft palette?  it can be fixed after baby is here. etc...

 

3. it can cause un-necessary heartache and stress during a time that should be as stress free as possible.  Lots of false readings.  My sister had 4-5 US with her first pg.  the first a vag (ummm... i'm so NOT okay with people putting things up there like that) for confirmation?  i never was sure about that first one.  the second was the anatomy scan where there was a bright spot on the heart, so she went for another one.  It ended up that the equipment at the second US was too advanced for the training of whoever interpreted it so, all that worry for nothing ... then she had a 3D scan (which btw, is not necessarily the scan itself but higher-end software/machine that can read the waves coming back) just for the fun of it.  To get a picture of the baby.

 

4. We like to be surprised on birth day.

 

5. Yes, if there was a medical indication we needed to take a peek, I'd consider it.  I'm not anti-medicine, i'm just anti-over use medicine.  -i mean that in an umbrella way, not that every woman has 1 US over uses it, but that the medical field over uses it.  

 

Good luck with your DH.  I'd try to get out of him WHY he feels so strongly about this.  I like the idea of going over situations where an US would be deemed 'acceptable'

post #39 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by laughingfox View Post

In the US, it's such a bizarre idea to not have constant ultrasounds that people can't even grasp the concept.


You know, I've never noticed that to be a problem.  I've never been under any pressure to get an ultrasound, aside from when my daughter was two weeks past her due date and they wanted to make sure there was no medical reasons to push me towards an induction.  For a hospital birth, I've heard that it's actually pretty unusual that my daughter was due on the 5th of May and they let me go until the 27th.  I went into labor the day I was scheduled for an induction.  My husband called about an hour before I was scheduled for my induction to tell her he thought I was in labor.  Sure enough, she decided she didn't want to get that kind of eviction!

 

Aside from that one ultrasound, it's always been an option somewhere between 12 and 20 weeks, but I've never felt like there was any pressure.  I was never asked when I was going in for my next one or anything.  I did end up with ultrasounds for my two boys, but with the first it was so the father could have a picture to take with him before training and so we could find out the gender.  I wasn't too worried about health concerns.  We would just be moving within a couple of weeks after the baby was born and I thought it would be easier to plan for the baby and move if we had as many details as possible.  With my younger son it was suggested (but only slightly encouraged) because my midwife thought we were off on my dates by about a month due to my measurements and just wanted to be sure.  She said otherwise she would have put it out there as an option, but wouldn't have really seen any benefit or harm from it.  She just wanted to feel pretty secure about my dates since a month off would have been a pretty big deal.  As it turns out, he was just a big baby.

 

I honestly think the amount or lack of pressure you get to receive an ultrasound in the US comes from a lot of places, like where you go for prenatal care.  An OB with an ultrasound machine in his office is more likely to pressure you for repeated ultrasounds, especially if your insurance covers every one.  Those machines are really expensive and they want to pay them off.  The more ultrasounds you have, the faster the machine pays for itself.  I wonder if another factor is what area of the country you're in.  The biggest influence I've seen on moms getting multiple ultrasounds has come from other baby boards where moms are all excited because they're getting their first ultrasound at 6-8 weeks.  Then they get all exited because they find out the gender at their 20 week ultrasound.  It seems like a lot of it is largely mama-hype over medical pressure.  On top of that, a lot of extended families want to know the gender so they can "plan for the baby".  I've noticed a lot of pressure from friends and family for that ultrasound, especially with this pregnancy where I'm 22 weeks and haven't been able to go in for care because we can't pay out of pocket and my insurance is being...well...stupid.  I'm already at the size I was on my due date for the other three pregnancies, so I've got friends and family begging me to go for an ultrasound so they can see if I'm having twins, and because they want to know the gender of the baby more than even my boyfriend does!  It just seems like a lot of it is social pressure.

 

I don't know if I'm going to get an ultrasound with this pregnancy or not.  I know my boyfriend really wants me to.  He cried at the ultrasound for our first together and I know he thinks it will really help him bond with the baby, but I don't know.  Unless there's medical reason, I'm almost happier to let the whole thing be a mystery.  After all, even if they do spot something, it's not like they could do anything about it.  I mean, my second child had all kinds of markers for things that suggested he may not survive until birth, but all that did was make me cry every day because I was scared.  As it turns out, he was just fine and only had a slight immune deficiency, which seems to be less and less of a problem with each passing year.  I'm honestly not sure I want to go through that again, or even take the chance of it, you know?

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: I'm Pregnant
Mothering › Forums › Pregnancy and Birth › I'm Pregnant › why NOT do an ultrasound?