call me crazy... or maybe just sleep deprived...

[mama_Agnieszka]

but I'm fantasizing about... having an elective c-section. please be gentle with me here - I am not uninformed or ignorant about how c-sections affect babies, and I'm not uncaring about my baby - this is strictly about my emotional and mental strength.

here's a little background. I had two dream-come-true home-water-births with no complications, no tearing, and very quick, too (second was so quick it was "unattended" because the midwife missed it). Quick recoveries, too.

but... with my first, I had severe ppd. was suicidal. took months and months to get better. couldn't breastfeed either. life was living hell.

with my second, i was living with my parents (and dh was at home for a month after the birth), it was summer time, she slept a lot... and my ppd was not half as bad shortly after birth. things got worse later. and again, took months to recover.

we decided on having a third when I was really well. and most of the pregnancy my mood has been really super, feeling level, enjoying life. until I got insomnia a while back. mood has not been that great. I upped my medications (with the doctor's approval). felt better for a week or two, and currently, I'm feeling like I'm sinking a bit.

so. this whole c-section fantasy has to do with my fear of the huge emotional upheaval of giving birth - the adrenalin, the rush, the crash, the inability to sleep... all that I dealt with in the past. It is very exciting and beautiful but I seem to have limited resources in terms off being able to cope with it for long... once the good feelings wear out, I REALLY wear out.

having this baby in the middle of winter, too, like with the first - it's very cold here, dark, gloomy, and all of it reminds me so clearly of how crazy I really felt after my first. so, I want to avoid it. I want to go into the hospital on a given date, lie down calm and peaceful, and have my son in my arms a bit later...

I know what a c-section is. I know how long the recovery can last. All I want to do is preserve my sanity somehow... reserve strength for the first months, BE alive with my son and two daughters (as opposed to drugged on sleeping pills and still having visions of driving the car off the bridge), and fall in love as I know I can with this brand new person...

I've no idea why giving birth is so damn hard on my head... I love being a mother, it's a spiritual calling with me. And my vaginal births are really so straight forward... but it's like... while my physical reproductive organs can easily weather the storms of birthing, my emotional/mental self somehow finds it too much...

And so I'm thinking, what difference does it really make that I had a fantastic home birth with my first child when I was ready to end it all a few weeks later? YKWIM??

[nummies]

so. this whole c-section fantasy has to do with my fear of the huge emotional upheaval of giving birth - the adrenalin, the rush, the crash, the inability to sleep... all that I dealt with in the past. It is very exciting and beautiful but I seem to have limited resources in terms off being able to cope with it for long... once the good feelings wear out, I REALLY wear out.

Mama, I say this gently: the rush, crash, inability to sleep, etc will all come with a c-section too.

Have you considered getting into therapy and talking about some of these fears?

[GoBecGo]

Originally Posted by nummies

Mama, I say this gently: the rush, crash, inability to sleep, etc will all come with a c-section too.

Have you considered getting into therapy and talking about some of these fears?

The hormonal upheaval of birth and the newborn period comes whether baby is born vaginally or not. And it will do nothing to make BFing more successful or PPD less likely. It would be terrible to end up with BFing issues, PPD AND surgery to recover from.

I think therapy sounds like a good idea. Addressing your insomnia will probably do an awful lot to get you back to feeling more normal.

[momto9kidlets]

I have to agree with what the other ladies have said. You will go through all of that same stuff in addition to having a more difficult time getting back to normal because your body will have to heal more.

Have you spoken with your doctor about preventative measures? I know when I had depression issues we chose to put me on medication - we weighed out all the pros and cons and at the time the medication path won out and I was on meds while pregnant and breastfeeding and it helped so much. I also second therapy if that is possible.

One other thing that I would recommend is - have you considered hiring a postpartum doula? Sometimes just having that extra help from someone who is trained and also having that women's presence can help wonders. In the past I have done this type of work with moms who had or were having severe postpartum depression and all said it really helped. I focused on helping their transition, assisted with caring for the other kids, the mom, the baby, and was there to help her when she needed to talk or needed a friend.

[remijo]

Mama, do whatever you have to do for you and that babe but the other PP's are right - it might be more difficult with a C because of more intense recovery. Have you tried Tylenol PM to help you sleep? My dr said it was fine during pregnancy and its vital to get some sleep now before baby comes. And build up that support system, starting now if you can, including a therapist. My therapist and I have gone over all the symptoms she should watch for should I start to have issues with low thyroid or PPD (missing appts, being lethargic or unwilling to talk during appts), I think it will be really important for you to do the same with your primary support system so someone else can keep an eye out for you when you might be too much in a funk to do anything for yourself. Lots of love and hugs coming your way.

[mama_Agnieszka]

Thanks ladies.

Yes, I have a therapist. And I have a psychiatrist. And I'm on Zoloft.

I can't do Tylenol PM or any of the sleep aids because I get heart palpitations...

I will be trying Ativan (my shrink prescribed it) to get some sleep soon.

I know, the whole c-section fantasy is just a fantasy... I really do hear what you are all saying about the lengthy recovery, never mind all the risks... it is serious surgery after all... I guess I'm just feeling a bit like I don't know what else I can do to improve my chances of staying sane... And, clearly, I'm not doing that great at the moment either...

[SummerLynn]

(HUGS) That is a tough decision and not one anyone else can tell you how to make, but the PP are correct, whether c-section or vaginal, the problems afterward are still going to be there. You need to address them directly and not try to skirt them all together, because its likely not possible. Therepy is a good route to take, and maybe you and your DH can take a trip to somewhere warm and sunny before your EDD to raise your spirits up. I'm sure your decision will be supported whatever route you choose to take, but I tell you from personal experience that a c-section is a tough route because after the surgery you may not feel able to care for your baby. I had a terrible time moving for over a week and it was hard to pick baby up etc. I also still hold the regret and guilt of having the c/s in the first place, even though it was not elective, i still feel like i should have or could have avoided it and somehow its my fault that I missed out on the experienece of a vag. birth. I wish you peace in making a decision, but I hope you will try to find an alterior route first. I fear for you what being laid up after a c/s will do for your mood.

[GoBecGo]

Perhaps you can work on an action plan in case you DON'T stay sane? I have a friend who works in mental health (and has her own struggles on that font from time to time) and she has a document which basically says what she does and doesn't want, what she consents to and what she doesn't, who should be in charge of what when she is unable to be resonsible for it all and so on. It's a really handy tool her organisation uses to help enable those with mental health issues to take control of their lives, even when they cannot control their mental state (and sometimes we just CAN'T).

I know my friend, and many others, find the stress removed by accepting their mental state might slip and knowing they have a comprehensive plan already in place should that happen means they feel far more in control and less pressured. That removal of the stress of "what if" can be a big help in staying sane too.

The programme is called Wellness Recovery Action Plan. Maybe you can google it and see if it would help?

Many to you mama.

[jamie79]

Lot of hugs for you!

I know how you feel. Not in regards to wanting a C, but in regards to the downfall of emotions after the birth. I am scared to death right now. My mom is in ICU, possible going to live, possibly not...I just found out yesterday that my husband will probably be transferred to another state for his job January 1, and I am due Jan 4th. My history of PPD after both of my babies accompanied by this stuff going on in my life is scaring the crap out of me for this 3rd baby! I know this thread isn't about me. I just wanted to say that I *get* where you are coming from.

[dnr3301]

are you working on a solid PP plan with your therapists? I had pretty dramatic PPD with the last one (reason #1 there were 4 years until I was willing to try to get pregnant again, then I had a miscarriage and now there will be 6 yrs between #2 and #3), and we have been working on a big old list of things we plan to have on hand/to try if it creeps back. I have a checklist for my dh for things to watch for; I live in the dark tundra too (mn) and I got a light box to hopefully prevent the dip in Vit D production and I will keep doing it after the birth also. I have a friend encapsulating my placenta, and another one (very discreetly because it grosses me out) grabbing a sliver of it right away and making me a smoothie. I have friends lined up to provide meals. I put a crazy amount of planning into this PP time.

[mamakims]

I so agree with what everyone else is saying! For me, i would worry that choosing to have a c-section in the hopes that it will discourage PPD would leave me feeling worse when that fantasy doesn't hold true and I'm still struggling with the same issues if it were a vaginal birth AND having to deal with teh extra healing your body requires from a section.

I worry about PPD too. I had it really bad after ds was born. It was mild the first two months but then we went through some medical issues with him and he had reflux so he cried ALL. THE. TIME! I was a basket case and suicidal thoughts didn't cross my mind but self harm did and I shut myself off from everyone, including my ds. It was so scary and it's my biggest fear this time around. But.. I'm feeling more prepared for it and I and my husband both know the warning signs that I'm not doing well. I'm hiring a postpartem doula to help with my others who was my doula last time and knows my history with PPD. I'm also having my placenta encapsulated so hopefully that'll help.
And while PPD does scare me, I'm trying to not be sucked in by the fear because I feel that's just making my anxiety worse. All I can do is prepare msyelf for it by having support in place, etc and to deal with it when it comes along, if it comes along.

[Astraia]

Originally Posted by dnr3301

have been working on a big old list of things we plan to have on hand/to try if it creeps back. I have a checklist for my dh for things to watch for; I live in the dark tundra too (mn) and I got a light box to hopefully prevent the dip in Vit D production and I will keep doing it after the birth also. I have a friend encapsulating my placenta, and another one (very discreetly because it grosses me out) grabbing a sliver of it right away and making me a smoothie. I have friends lined up to provide meals. I put a crazy amount of planning into this PP time.

I have struggled with intense depression in the past and SAD (seasonal affective disorder). I didn't get PPD with my first and I was REALLY really worried about it because of my history of mood problems.

Stock up on Vitamin D, light box, going for tanning sessions (weird, but true!), having a big support network of people who can help or just come and hang out and talk when you need them- be it a doula, friends, church family, whatever.

I'm also planning on eating/encapsulating (probably just eating, encasuplating seems like way more work then I'm willign to put into it) my placenta because of how run-down I felt last time. There are a lot of anecdotal stories about placenta-eating helping to prevent PPD.


I do think that it's the hormone changes that link so strongly to the feelings of being overwhelmed and out of control after you have a baby. I'm not sure that c-section would prevent it. I understand the feeling of grasping at straws, though, and I'm sorry you have to go through this!

[mama_Agnieszka]

Yeah, I think that the fantasy about the c-section really has everything to do with intense worry and fear about the emotional craziness... I'm just remembering it SO CLEARLY right now... probably because I'm only a few weeks away from birth.... I don't even think there is a doctor in town who would take me one for an elective c-section, not after the perfect births I've had...

I will get a postpartum doula. My dh will be at home for a month, but he'll be busy with my other two...

The other thing I'm thinking is... maybe I'll opt for a hospital birth this time. I had both my girls at home and it was great, but the midwives did miss the second birth and it was scary for me... not knowing what was going on (in terms of how dilated I was, or even that I was crowning!!!)... feeling a bit abandoned (dh was busy getting the pool set up, and looking after my 1st dd)... and then, not knowing that I was actually pushing the baby out... and the excruciating pain of it... No, I don't want to risk that again. I know that it sounds like such a fantastic birthing experience - I do think of it that way WHEN I'm feeling normal. When I feel "under" the depression, I'm just scared... and I remember being so scared when I got the baby out of the water, and the midwife wasn't there, and I didn't know what the heck to do... Thank God baby was fine, breathing fine and everything... but, I'm not okay with taking that kind of stress...

I will have to grieve the loss of having a home birth... Or maybe I'll start feeling better in the next few weeks and it'll be okay. I don't know. I have to be ready for whatever my mood presents me with next.

And in terms of being ready otherwise... like I said, I'll have a doula and my dh, and we have a packed pantry. My mom will be here for a week. I don't have a freezer (just a tiny one) so can't really get food ready ahead of time, but I have some friends who I know will help out (I haven't asked directly, don't feel comfortable doing that... - have had bad experiences in the past)... and my church, too... I'm hoping that nursing will go better than in the past, but if it doesn't I'm going to just let it go this time (I agonized myself into a frenzy because my supply was so so tiny with both my girls - I don't want to do that again)...

That's my plan. It's a bit sad, or so it seems to me, because I do wish I was more optimistic. But I suppose I'm being "realistic", accepting that things could potentially be pretty shitty...

[nummies]

Yes, I am all for homebirth (heck, I am planning one with these babies), but if you feel that a hospital birth is right for you, then go for it! You have to do what you have to do, and if that involves an epidural the second you are admitted, then go with that.

And I totally agree about getting a PP doula. You sound really prepared for PPD this time around, so you are already a step ahead of the game.

[JayJay]

I agree with everyone else here and do have a couple of things to add: I actually think the risks of PPD are greater after a cesarean than a vaginal birth. Then on top of that, somewhere down the line you may well feel robbed of the birth experience...believe me, I know!

Additionally - and I don't know (from looking quickly through the answers) if this has been mentioned, but I'd be extremely careful about any surgery right now in which the recovery period involves popping pills. You're on antidepressants right now already (and I am glad you do also have a chance to talk about it: I found my psychologist back in 2007 extremely helpful in terms of talking therapy) and after a cesarean, you'll also be put on ibuprofen and probably a narcotic.

I was on Percocet and that stuff makes you hiiiiiigh. Takes the edge off everything: even grief. It is tempting to take it simply to get a rush. I did, once, when I was beside myself with sadness on Halloween night of 2008 - and I didn't have PPD - I was simply grieving everything: the loss of my daughter, the loss of the birthing experience.

So I'd be very worried about the narcotic side of things as well. Those things are powerful, as I'm sure you know.

You know also, and this is coming from me: I had depression terribly badly all the way up to the age of twenty - I was suicidal much of the time (luckily not for a long time now! I am going to be 28 next year, so it'll have been 8 years of non-depression) and I understand the crushing feelings.

I also know though, that sometimes, our minds get caught in a cycle of sadness, from one day to the next, a cycle of "what if" and prediction about bad things happening and allowing that cycle of thought to continue to exacerbate does more harm than good. The thoughts go 'round and 'round, making you feel worse and worse. I noticed this happening with me when I first was struggling back out of depression - I was just fantastic at making myself feel absolutely god-awful. So my first point of call was to - whenever one of these "what if's" or ghastly thoughts hit me -immediately say to myself "STOP!" and absolutely make myself think of something completely different. Taking the dog for a walk, making brownies, thinking of a story - anything else.

With time, that got easier and easier to do and now I think positively much more than negatively about 98% of the time. I guess it just kinda retrained my mind over time. It's weird at first but it helps. Try it

Anyhow mama, you and me: we're both going through odd births then - for me, this will be a VBAC after losing my daughter suddenly the first time; for you, this might be the only birth WITHOUT PPD! So, let's stick together and see what good things can happen

*HUGE hugs* XxxX

[AfricanQueen99]

Hugs, Mama.

I was also suicidal with PPAD after the birth of my daughter. It was, by far, the worst time in my life and I will NOT live like that again. With this pregnancy I'm having my placenta encapsulated in the *hope* that it won't be the same. Believe me, I know that fear that you're speaking of.

How would you feel about coming up with a "If A then B; if B then C; if C then D" plan? You can give a copy to your husband, your postpartum doula, your therapist, etc. Then you're still in control.

[jillmamma]

No more advice really, but wanted you to know I will be thinking of you and keeping you in my prayers.

[StrawberryFields]

Originally Posted by mama_Agnieszka

The other thing I'm thinking is... maybe I'll opt for a hospital birth this time. I had both my girls at home and it was great, but the midwives did miss the second birth and it was scary for me... not knowing what was going on (in terms of how dilated I was, or even that I was crowning!!!)... feeling a bit abandoned (dh was busy getting the pool set up, and looking after my 1st dd)... and then, not knowing that I was actually pushing the baby out... and the excruciating pain of it... No, I don't want to risk that again. I know that it sounds like such a fantastic birthing experience - I do think of it that way WHEN I'm feeling normal. When I feel "under" the depression, I'm just scared... and I remember being so scared when I got the baby out of the water, and the midwife wasn't there, and I didn't know what the heck to do... Thank God baby was fine, breathing fine and everything... but, I'm not okay with taking that kind of stress...

I will have to grieve the loss of having a home birth... Or maybe I'll start feeling better in the next few weeks and it'll be okay. I don't know. I have to be ready for whatever my mood presents me with next.

I am so sorry that you are having such a hard time right now and I agree with the other posters that you have to do what it takes to have a healthy YOU as well as a healthy baby. And no one would judge you for that. But I am also worried for you that an elective C would leave you with the same postpartum difficulties on top of the stress and pain of recovering from a surgery.

But re: the bolded. We are all great cheerleaders for homebirth, and for natural birth. But you are not alone! I planned two homebirths and this time I am having a planned hospital birth. And I am OK with that! This is my last baby and I am done. I want to get out of here when I am in labor. I don't want to be here immediately postpartum. I want to do something to combat the out of control and panicky feeling I have during labor. And if I want an epidural this time, I want one to be available to me. It is the right choice for me for this birth. And if you believe that a hospital birth is the right choice for you and your birth, then I agree that you should look into it. If you have a hospital you feel comfortable with, and a provider you trust, you can have a positive hospital birth experience.

And as for feeling like a pessimist--eh. I think being positive all the time is overrated. Being optimistic has left me unprepared. Being realistic has always served me well. Even if I seem like a Debbie Downer sometimes!

Best of luck to you!! You will be in my thoughts.

[mama_Agnieszka]

Update - had a nice chat with my Midwife

... and it was good.

No elective c-section for me. That was really just fear talking...

And, I won't make a final decision until I've had a few nights of sleep... or maybe even not until the moment I'm in labour... My midwife said, if I choose to go to hospital out of my own choice, we will go. All the hospitals in my city have tubs so I can still have a water birth. And if I decide to stay at home, we'll stay at home.

My dh is going to write up a detailed day-by-day plan for the first postpartum week.

I'm going to finalize my plans for my other two dd's when labor starts... I had planned on having them at home and with me during labor, but I'm really not sure at this point... I suspect that it will add to my worry, thinking about their responses to my vocalizing... worrying that they will be nervous and scared for me... I have reason to believe that it might be too much for them - we watched some water births on youtube together one afternoon and that evening both dd's were so on edge, crying at the drop of the pin, stressed!!! They are both sensitive... (as am I and as is my dh)... So, I'm thinking, maybe not.

And regarding the other little hope of being able to induce ahead of due date, that's also not a go... here, at least, they don't do any medical inductions unless I'm overdue or labour stalls.

But I may try some natural induction methods... my midwife says that they don't really work ahead of baby being ready, at least not in her team's experience, but there's no harm in trying...

The key, I think, is to feel more in control. That's really working to put my mind at ease...

It's been a tough day, though. So much worry and exhaustion. I'm taking Ativan tonight to help me sleep. Here's hoping tomorrow will be better.

Thank you for your support...
Much to you all!

[Usually Curious]

[QUOTE]
It's been a tough day, though. So much worry and exhaustion. I'm taking Ativan tonight to help me sleep. Here's hoping tomorrow will be better.
[/QUOTE]

[/B]

Good! I am not one for medicating, but sleep deprivation may be a BIG part of your problem right now. It really sounds like you need a few good night's sleep. You can always reevaluate later.