I don't think I can get better around my husband

[annekh23]

I've been saying this for a while, but everyone around me has been telling me things would be harder without him, be patient etc etc etc. All that has really accomplished is that I have no one to talk to openly.

In theory we've been going to marriage counselling, but my husband schedules the appointments and if we leave the office without an appointment scheduled, he doesn't get round to it, so we lose any impetus we've built up and go back to square one each time.

We just had two appointment quite close together after an almost 2 month gap, I actually thought on Friday that we were getting somewhere and I tried to schedule another appointment before we left, but my husband said it was easier to do over email, yeah right, the last time we did that resulted in the 2 month gap.

The very first time we saw this counsellor he actually suggested that my husbands behaviour could be causing my depression. I stepped in and defended my husband. I don't blame my husband for my depression, but I do feel he's hindering me getting better.

I have been very severely depressed, there is no getting away from that fact, I'm struggling to function at all, yet the baby is exclusively breastfed, meeting milestones and is not neglected in anyway. My older kids could do with more attention, but they are safe and fed and that's rarely junk food. Frankly, considering how terrible I feel, I think I'm doing a pretty good job!

Mornings are really hard for me, the baby isn't sleeping well at the moment and I have narcolepsy, so my awakeness doesn't usually correlate with whether I'm actually rested or not. I take medication for it, but I have to actually wake up and take the meds, sometimes I don't even think clearly enough to take them, other times I know I should take them but I feel so depressed I look at them and think I don't want to be awake and face today.

Last night was a particularly bad night, I don't think I really got any solid sleep until at about 5.30 I finally asked DH to take the baby to the spare room. DH does breakfast with the kids and takes DS to school, not sure what time I woke up, but I was half awake for a bit but not out of bed before he left. At that time I realised the power was out in our room, but not in the whole house and asked DH to check the circuit breakers, but none of them had tripped and he left.

He didn't say sort it out, so whatever you have to do, or communicate that he was going to take control of the situation. Which left me not knowing what to do, I didn't feel confident taking control of the situation, partly because of being depressed, partly because I'm just not all that familar with the electrics in our house, when he does, so I was fearful of doing things wrong, because that really his domain. I also didn't feel I could just take control for fear he'd be angry with me for doing that and as my only solution would be to call an electrician, I'd be spending money, not just trying to fix things my own way.

So, seeing he was online on MSN I messaged him (naively I'd thought he might actually come home after the school run and do something about the situation), he was very uncommunicative, acting as if this wasn't a problem, not telling me to just sort it out, nor showing any hint that he was going to deal with it.

I realise part of the issue is that he doesn't see it as such a big problem as I do, I call no electricity in the master bedroom, bathroom, landing and stairs a problem. I've not been able to shower this morning and it gets dark so early the evening would be a problem with just basic living tasks, not luxury/for pleasure activities, sure, I'm bummed that I can't use my sewing machine as I had planned to do a bit of sewing today, but just general living would be an issue. It bothered me doubly as the cleaners come tomorrow, it's too late to cancel and we'd end up paying for cleaning that couldn't get fully done in some areas due to the lack of power.

After going round in circles trying to talk to him, I finally said I've found an electrician, I'm calling them at 10am, he said great, thanks. WTF, if you were happy for me to do that you could have told me, or done it yourself rather than just ignoring the problem.

After calling the electricians, I decided that I was actually going to say that I was pissed off by this situation, I've been letting a lot of things pass and not expressing my frustrations, sometimes this is good, it's resulted in less tension at times, but for some issues it's just a build up of unresolved conflict.

He just brushed me off, said he didn't have time for this and went offline, I was so upset I tried to call him and he wasn't answering. I'm not an unreasonable person, I do understand that there are times when you can't deal with things, but I know in his job that's just a handful of meetings and that he's no longer working on high pressure situations, but even when he was he didn't tell me. His "I don't have time for this" usually means "I'm not choosing to have time for this and if I hide for long enough it will go away", if he did actually have a meeting or deadline, he'd usually say "I have to go to a meeting, talk later" or something.

All the time I've known him he's had a habit of either burying himself in work, or filling up time with a task that is useful, but not high priority, or taking vastly longer than necessary on a task. So last night he spent hours cleaning the oven, I never asked him to clean the oven, he's never cleaned the oven before, but all of a sudden it's top of his list, which means then if we ever talk about this kind of thing to anyone, he can honestly say he works really hard. Yet I'd far rather that last night he'd spent 5minutes putting the box we use for christmas decorations away, he got it out on Sunday, put up the tree with the kids, then left boxes and packaging all over the front room which the kids then proceeded to make a mess of. I don't think he does it conciously, but he acts in a way that to anyone looking in he's working really hard and being very helpful. As it is, he's actually created more work for me, because I wouldn't have cleaned the oven this week, or even this month, but that box and packaging does have to be picked up before the cleaners come tomorrow.

At counselling on Friday, the counsellor actually spent a while trying to encourage DH that I actually was doing my best, was trying hard to get better and he needed to support me and ask people to support him, yet as soon as we start trying to discuss this issue today, he is flinging out that not having power wouldn't be such a problem if I didn't spend so much time in the bedroom - so I'm not supposed to be in the bedroom in the evening? not supposed to change diapers? Regardless of what I do during the day today, we needed to at least make some effort to resolve the problem today, not wait until tonight, decide we need an electrician, have to faff with torches and candles then call them tomorrow morning.

His just leaving the situation really upset me, I know sometimes people need to do that, just walk away, but it's not a reasonable response to always do that and it's harmful to the people around you.

I was just on the phone to our pastor and was very discouraged he was reminding me of my wedding vows and kept saying "I don't know what you are trying to say", well I don't know what I'm trying to say either, I feel like I'm at breaking point, yet I'm not suicidal, I'm not trying to work out how to leave, but I'm sat here expecting the electrician between 1 and 3, in a house that I am ashamed to let anyone into, when I'm completely fearful of speaking to anyone, I'm not dressed because I can't shower and I feel all sweaty and don't really want to put on clean clothes in that state. Whatever happens with the electrician, when DH comes home he'll probably tell me it's wrong and I'm petrified, crippled with inability to solve any of these problems, getting dressed should be easy, yet it seems so hard, talking with my pastor just made things seem worse and the problems of this morning just seemed so trivial I didn't even say what was going on today.

[LynnS6]

When you're severely depressed, your brain does not function well. Just getting dressed IS a big deal!

Can you do counseling just for you? It sounds like you need someone to talk to, and your dh isn't the one to help, and your pastor needs a swift kick in someplace unmentionable! Do you have anyone in your congregation that does Pastoral Care? We have Stephen Ministers in our church that were a godsend to me when I needed help.

Also, are you on meds? If not, I would like to suggest you try them. There are meds you can take that are safe for breastfeeding. While your kids are fed and well cared for, YOU sound miserable. It sounds like you've done the best you can with the tools you have. Sometimes you need more.

[annekh23]

I'm on meds, have been since April, we've tried a few different combinations, but spaced out enough that we haven't jumped from one to another without actually giving it time to see if they work. I am between counsellors at the moment, being in counselling helps, but it only takes the edge off it. My psychiatrist does do a bit of counselling, she spends longer with her patients than most doctors, appointments are 50mins, I'm seeing her weekly at the moment, so I go tomorrow. I feel like I am fighting hard, but hitting a brick wall with my husband, he treats me like a child, but without actually stepping up and being the adult himself.

I'm exceedingly fearful about him coming home tonight, unless some miracle has happened he's going to show up and act like everything is ok, which it isn't, I don't think I can bear to speak to him without some acknowledgement from him that I'm hurting.

[MamaArty]

*HUGS*

Is there anyone around you that can help you out, even with day to day stuff? Any friends or family? I know what it's like to be in a place where you need help but don't feel comfortable asking for it. I've been there, and I think you are there, and I think that's part of the depression. If there is anyone near you that you can call on, I would really encourage you to try asking for help. Even just starting with something small, like taking the kids for a walk so you can have a few minutes to yourself, could do wonders for you.

As for DH, I'm not sure what to say. What was your relationship like before you had depression? Could he be behaving like he is because he doesn't know how to do with your depression, or is this how he always is? Have you been straight up with him about how his behavior makes you feel?

[annekh23]

DH came home, late, acting as if there was no problem. I thought he'd okayed me to call an electrician, turns out he still disagrees with me on that, I've fixed the problem, spent less than 200 dollars, and found out that previous work DH has done on the wiring is dangerous, but apparently I should have let him waste hours looking for the problem, not knowing whether he'd even find it, probably have him blame me for it at based on the questions I've asked since, fixed it incorrectly.

Our situation is complicated by the fact that we live in the US but are not US citizens, I'm here on a dependents visa, I don't have a social security number, a credit rating, a bank account, anything. Our marriage was already rocky when we moved here 3 years ago, yet stupidly I gave up everything for him. I've really seen very little evidence of him trying to work on anything, but a ridiculous degree of tolerance for a difficult situation, which is how he manages to avoid either working on it OR actually ending it, he sits in a limbo which I have struggled to tolerate, the hormones of pregnancy chucked me over the edge into full blown depression.

I'm completely and utterly alone, I'm in a country where I could probably find myself without any access to money or anything within a few hours, but I can't leave because the baby doesn't have a passport, we don't even have a copy of her birth certificate.

Of course when we're arguing over this and DH pointed out that the baby was getting upset, I stupidly yelled that I didn't care and momentarily, I didn't care that she was crying, she was safe, dry, clean, not hungry and in my arms, maybe that was wrong, but as soon as I said it he threw back at me the "you're not a fit mother..". Problem is, that because of the PPD and him overeacting to a self harm incident I do have a history with CPS, I'd have to dig out the paperwork to see what records they keep and who can access them, but I know he'd fight for custody and fight hard.

I don't have friends I can turn to, I've already turned to them and they all say the same thing, stick with it, keep praying, keep going to counselling etc. but this is destroying me, yet I feel completely crippled in actually being able to do something about it.

We own our house, state law is that we own it jointly, neither of us can chuck the other one out (there's a history there too, he tried), but I don't think I can deal with trying to share life with him, but given getting dressed is so hard right now, trying to actually put a plan into place of escaping seems beyond me, I'm thinking I'd have to leave in the daytime with all three children and somehow get enough cash to at least get us a motel room whilst I actually sorted out something longer term.

[phoebemommy]

If you're serious about getting out of the house, you might call a women's shelter, if there's one nearby. I used to work at one, and we had a priority for women escaping domestic violence, but there was a kind of triage list for other situations, depending on space available. I remember, for example, we took in a seasonal worker who was pregnant and lost her living arrangement. Chances are a shelter would do what they could to help you.

I hope you can get what you need to get better!

[annekh23]

I haven't contacted a women's shelter, but I did speak with someone who should know about these things and she said in this area they were really short of spaces and they couldn't even take in everyone who was in physical danger.

The other issue is that by doing that I would make everyone fully aware that something was going on, whereas because of by visa status it may well be better from a legal perspective for me to have to be secretive.

I had an appointment with my psychiatrist this morning, she does a form of therapy that works on the mind/body connection, I alerted her that something was going on, but she didn't give me the opportunity to even explain what, just that it was a relationship issue. I couldn't settle down to answering questions about what I'm noticing in my body when I'm actually trying to figure out what to do practically.

[LionTigerBear]

I don't know. I have been severely depressed a few times with postpartum depression-- actually, three. I have also been severely depressed before that in my life. So, I know how debilitating it is. However. Not every good partner is perfect. Actually, none are. I don't see anything that he is doing "wrong" per se. I know he isn't acting the way you want him to, but do you consider how hard this is on him? It is hard to have a severely depressed partner. No one signs up for that kind of debilitating disability in their lives, and most people don't plan for it. Most people pretty much assume that they and their partner will always be relatively healthy and capable.

So, yeah, it is stressful for him-- a lot of responsibility and pressure that he wasn't trained for or prepared for. I think it is normal for him to just kind of "shut off" sometimes. It's not fair and not a healthy relationship if only one person gets to have problems and be imperfect, you know?

Now, I'm not trying to paint him as a victim, here-- and not trying to make you feel guilty. I'm sure you do anyway. But throughout my depression I never blamed DH for my depression, I owned it for myself and tried to be as supportive as I could muster (or at least apologetic, when appropriate). I often told him how grateful I was for him, how I was sorry we had to go through this, and sorry I was in such a bad mood/not helpful/etc. This kind of admission goes a long way. My DH really appreciated it. I think it helped him to feel good about being even more supportive and understanding.

I agree that if you are a certain degree of severely depressed, medication is a good idea. Supplements have made a huge difference for me, but sometimes you need something more immediate. It may be time to evaluate your success on your medication and up the dose or add another medication or supplements. 5HTP is very helpful for me. Of course, it's hard to feel motivated to take them when I feel depressed. But you do what you can.

It's worth it to try to throw some energy your partner's way, because they can be your best and strongest ally.

[annekh23]

Originally Posted by LionTigerBear

I don't know. I have been severely depressed a few times with postpartum depression-- actually, three. I have also been severely depressed before that in my life. So, I know how debilitating it is. However. Not every good partner is perfect. Actually, none are. I don't see anything that he is doing "wrong" per se. I know he isn't acting the way you want him to, but do you consider how hard this is on him? It is hard to have a severely depressed partner. No one signs up for that kind of debilitating disability in their lives, and most people don't plan for it. Most people pretty much assume that they and their partner will always be relatively healthy and capable.

So ignoring life is not doing anything wrong? I can accept dealing badly with a situation that develops, but continually running away from it, not talking to anyone, not trying to resolve anything is not ok. Lieing in therapy is not ok. Not talking to me is ok etc. Yep, I know he's not perfect, I know this is difficult for him, but ignoring it and hoping it will go away isn't going to work and it's harming me.

So, yeah, it is stressful for him-- a lot of responsibility and pressure that he wasn't trained for or prepared for. I think it is normal for him to just kind of "shut off" sometimes. It's not fair and not a healthy relationship if only one person gets to have problems and be imperfect, you know?

Shutting off temporarily to get through something rough is reasonable, it's a coping method, shutting off for years is not ok.

Now, I'm not trying to paint him as a victim, here-- and not trying to make you feel guilty. I'm sure you do anyway. But throughout my depression I never blamed DH for my depression, I owned it for myself and tried to be as supportive as I could muster (or at least apologetic, when appropriate). I often told him how grateful I was for him, how I was sorry we had to go through this, and sorry I was in such a bad mood/not helpful/etc. This kind of admission goes a long way. My DH really appreciated it. I think it helped him to feel good about being even more supportive and understanding.

The vast majority of the time I own my depression and it's because I own it that I have to look after myself to get better. It was the marriage counsellor that suggested that maybe he was contributing or even causing by depression by his long term behaviour, not me, and when that was suggested, I defended him and took ownership of my depression, but it's 4mths since that appointment and since then I've seen nothing change.

I agree that if you are a certain degree of severely depressed, medication is a good idea. Supplements have made a huge difference for me, but sometimes you need something more immediate. It may be time to evaluate your success on your medication and up the dose or add another medication or supplements. 5HTP is very helpful for me. Of course, it's hard to feel motivated to take them when I feel depressed. But you do what you can.

I'm doing that, it's too soon from the latest change to try fiddling any more, in fact I think it's the slight med change that has made this situation become more urgent, a couple of weeks ago I was so depressed I didn't care, so I didn't bother telling him how I felt. Apparently the highest risk of suicide is just after you start meds, with the theory being that until the meds actually help a bit you don't even have the energy to think about suicide, I think we're seeing a similar phenomenon here.

It's worth it to try to throw some energy your partner's way, because they can be your best and strongest ally.

I have been doing, ever since I got pregnant and before that, I've had minimal support from him, true he helps practically, but he never talks to me, never tries to support me, does't initiate anything, he says he doesn't know what I want, but then he doesn't ask, so why would he know?

[LionTigerBear]

I hear that you are not blaming him for your depression and I really respect that. You know, your situation with him may very well be part of the reason for your depression. I think that perhaps there are ways of treating him and reacting to him that could be healthier for you, and might bring out a better side of him, and thus help you feel less depressed. This is not to say that his actions are because of you-- he would most likely go through the same pattern with someone else.

It's complicated to explain-- There are two books I suggest for relationship troubles and they are sooooo good. They did a world of good for me. They are How To Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It and Getting The Love You Want. They are both VERY validating and uplifting books and also just really helpful in a practical sense. A lot of people have had success with them. You may have some "aha!" lightbulb moments while reading them, not about just your relationship, but about your whole life. At least, that's how I felt.

[MamaArty]

I think it would be a very good idea to get in contact with your home country's consulate. Even if you don't decide to leave, knowing your options is a good thing.

[annekh23]

I'm not sure if there is information that I can get from the consulate that can help, I think given that we live here we are under the legal system here. I called 211 and got a number for a family legal advice service, which I called and got a message saying the voice mail was full, but not giving me any further info to even confirm I was calling the right place. I've looked online but the information doesn't fit what I was given, so I may have been given the wrong number, I'll try both numbers again tomorrow.

The tricky thing is that right now I don't want him to be aware I'm seeking this information, which means the only way I can pay is cash and even then only as much as I can withdraw without raising suspicion. Some of the services I've found require a phone assessment, which if you are assessed to need to pay you have to pay with credit card. I don't know what our household income is, but I know we're not low income, unless they are able to view me as an individual with no income.

The worst scenario would be for him to get custody, but for me then to have to leave the country.

I spoke with our marriage counsellor today which was quite upsetting, but kind of proved my feeling that I'm not sure he's a great counsellor for us. He pointed out that I'm not without blame without me even indicating that I felt blameless and also said he didn't take any responsibility, erm, did I ask you to take any responsibility? If this was my only experience of counselling I'd think that there was something wrong with the whole concept, but I've seen enough of it to know that there are a lot of different strategies and right from the start he seems to have been someone who likes the sound of his own voice and we'll get about 2/3 of the way in to the appointment and he'll suddenly launch into something and it's impossible to get a word in and he won't stop until the appointment time is up. I've never experienced anything like it, even in almost an hour long sermon at church there is usually more interaction between speaker and listeners. At least if you sit in silence after a few minutes someone might say something!

That's all kind of irrelevant anyway because I feel like I've made my decision and it would take a miracle for something to change that. We were recommended this guy because he was a christian based counsellor, he didn't even mention my marriage vows, we've been paying him to do christian based counselling and skipping that obvious point seems like he's not doing the job we've paid him for.

I do stick by those vows, which is why I've never mentioned the word divorce just separation, the ideal is to work on a marriage, but I don't see anything that says remaining together in a bad marriage is preferable than being separated but remaining married and not marrying or having sex with another man.

[triony]

Annekh23 - first of all, hugs from me. This is a difficult situation.

I think you have 1 main decision to make right now.
Do you want to stay with DH or not? You can make this easier by saying "for 3 months" or some other time limit, but you need to make the decision.

Once you have done that, that burden is lifted and you can move on.

If you decide to leave, some of the other posters have given you ideas, and I'm sure there are many more good ones.

If you decide to stay, I agree with LionTigerBear. You cannot change his behavior directly, but you can influence him with your behavior. Another book I recommend is The Surrendered Wife. The author makes it very clear you should NOT attempt this with a man you feel would endanger your well-being or your children's well-being. It sounds as though while your husband might be making your life more difficult right now, he is not actually endangering you or your children.

If you are too tired to read (another) book, I completely understand. I too have experienced depression in my life. Here are my short suggestions.

1. Tell him how much you love him and respect him and that you need him.
2. If you have a problem tell him about it, tell him your concerns and how it makes you feel. Then let go. That is really, really hard, but you can do it.
If it is something you can fix without spending money or stepping on his toes, then you fix it. The boxes, for example. Someday you will be able to rely on him to put them away when you ask, but right now, do it for you.
3.Ask your friends for help with specific things. Ask them if you can bring your kids over for 1 hour so you can take a shower in their house. (Or if they can come get you and your kids). Most people WANT to help, but if they can't help, they'll get frustrated. (They can't help fix your husband, for example)

Good luck, and many many hugs to you!
Triony