unpraised dd seeking praise? - Page 2

[moondiapers]

Here's my take on it....

If my child shows me a picture and I just point out things about the picture that the child already knows....then I might as well not bother. Who wants what they already know parroted back at them? I do tell my child, "That's a beautiful horse. I love all of the colors you put in the sky!" If I didn't say this I'd be keeping my feelings a secret...which is akin to lying.

We dont' say "Good Job!" But we don't hide the truth from our children either. I wouldn't say "When you help cut the veggies it makes dinner go so much faster!" because my child already knows that, just as I wouldn't say "Your eyes are brown." She'd look at me like I'd lost my mind. Instead I'd say the truth, "I really enjoy spending time with you in the kitchen. It's so much help and I like hearing about your day while we work."

I also tell her things like, "You look beautiful today. It's obvious that you got a good night's sleep and woke up in a great mood!" because guess what!!! I love my daughter and she is the most beautiful little girl in the world to me. To keep this a secret from here would be akin to lying.

It's okay to be honest with your children. Just don't "Good Job" them to death. I really believe that EMPTY praise is the enemy. Sharing your feelings and being honest with your children isn't empty praise, and can only benefit them.

[Fuamami]

Originally Posted by moondiapers

I wouldn't say "When you help cut the veggies it makes dinner go so much faster!" because my child already knows that, just as I wouldn't say "Your eyes are brown."

I make comments like this all the time, but I notice your kids are a lot older. I especially do it when I MAKE my kids help me, so they can understand why I just forced them to do so.

[sgmom]

I also make comments like this, but I always add something like "now I have more time to play with you!"

[moondiapers]

Originally Posted by Fuamami

I make comments like this all the time, but I notice your kids are a lot older. I especially do it when I MAKE my kids help me, so they can understand why I just forced them to do so.

You're describing a different situation though. Sure, if I was asking my child to help me and they said, "Oh mooooooommmmmm, whyyyyyyyyy?"
Ofcourse I'd say, " because it's running late and I need the help if we're going to eat in a decent amount of time"

I haven't changed this as they've gotten older at all. I have a home daycare with preschool aged children and toddlers and do the same for them as well.

Now I do state the obvious for children that are preverbal, that's much different. And preverbal children are usually helping me chop veggies either.

[Freud]

I think it's very important for children to receive praise from their parents and other adults in their lives. It's not necessary to "good job" everything they do, but children do need to know that they are doing things that are right/good and also to know that they please their parents. Internal motivation does not just spontaneously come into existence within a child. It comes from internalizing praise/motivation they receive from their parents. It begins in very young children who receive subtle verbal and nonverbal cues from their parents that give the child clues as to whether what they are doing is good/pleasing or the opposite. If a child is never praised and just fed back what they already know ("You made the sky blue!") then they just won't be receiving what humans, as social animals need, positive feedback.

[Fuamami]

Originally Posted by moondiapers

You're describing a different situation though. Sure, if I was asking my child to help me and they said, "Oh mooooooommmmmm, whyyyyyyyyy?"
Ofcourse I'd say, " because it's running late and I need the help if we're going to eat in a decent amount of time"

I haven't changed this as they've gotten older at all. I have a home daycare with preschool aged children and toddlers and do the same for them as well.

Now I do state the obvious for children that are preverbal, that's much different. And preverbal children are usually helping me chop veggies either.

I guess I think for some children it's still very helpful to use descriptive praise, even if they don't ask why. My dh has ADHD or something and is completely unable to keep things neat. I see my dd tending toward this, too, so after I remind her to pick up her clothes and close her drawers and straighten things up, I point out how it looks more pleasing to the eye, how you don't bang your shins on the open drawer, and how her clothes will be easy to find.

[LCBMAX]

I can remember a real feeling of emptiness on those occasions when I directly asked my mother for praise and she said "It really doesn't matter if I like what you did, what matters is if you like it." I understood where she wanted me to go, but it didn't feel connected to where I really was.

I must remember this as I try to reprogram my praise-oriented responses into something more UP.

[Cavy]

This psychological getting wrapped up in knots about knowing when and how much praise is okay and not too "manipulative" is one of the things that very much puts me off UP, lol.

Back to OP's examples: I can't see what's wrong with saying
"Wow! you did clean your room! You don't usually do that and I love seeing a tidy bedroom, I'm so glad you did that." Not to manipulate her, you understand, but as a very sincere statement of fact about what you feel about it.

Although if my DD cleans her room I tend to faint away in shock before I can come out with any such effusive statements [grin].

[Nature]

Originally Posted by CorasMama

it sounds like she's seeking praise, and if that's what she needs, then she should get it. But then again, I'm a fan of praise.

I praise Cora every day, whether she's done something or not. I tell her she's the bestest kid in the whole wide world. I tell her I'm the luckiest mom ever to have gotten a kid so great (she really is). And I tell her how proud I am of her for X, Y, and Z, and how happy I am that X, Y, and Z makes her happy and feel accomplished. Of course, I also tell her (kindly) that the story she wrote needs a lot of work.

And you know what? She thrives on the approval. She has a TON of internal motivation for most things she does. Sure, she never cleans her room, but oh well. She spends hours in the kitchen making applesauce, regardless of the fact that I won't touch it (tart and sweet right now make me want to gag), experimenting with recipes, and I know that has nothing to do with my approval. She does the same thing with casseroles. And she's happy, despite all my praise, go figure!

My parents were totally praise-happy. They were also honest with me when I wasn't doing a great job, but they were very generous with the praise of the things they liked or that they observed making me happy. And it gave me a great sense of security. My dad still calls me his "number one kid", which makes me swell with pride.

Before she died, my mom always told me how proud she was of the mother I became. And that really gets me through some of the roughest parenting times. Because, let's face it, sometimes there is NO reward in parenting situations, no matter how well you do it. But my mother, a frickin' saint, was proud of the mother that I am, so I can keep doing it, and doing it well, yk?

I think it's every kid's right to think their parents think they hung the moon.

This was really beautiful and made me smile today

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by philosoikou

We tell our kids plenty often when something they've done has helped us out ("When you help me chop the vegetables, making dinner goes faster"), or made someone happy ("Oh, look at John's face! He's delighted that you gave him a cookie"). We share in our children's joy when they are proud of an accomplishment ("You've practiced all summer on the monkey bars, and now you can get the whole way across without help!"). We acknowledge effort ("You tried really hard to open that lock by yourself").

These feel...insincere to me. It seems like you're making a lot of circles basically to say "good job" or "I'm glad you did something." With the veggie chopping, I'd be more likely to say, "thanks for helping me chop the veggies. I'm always glad to have help." If it were something that child hadn't been able to do before, then I probably would say, "you did a great job cutting up the squash."

As for the cookie example, is it really about Johnny's look of delight? In that way, it seems to avoid saying that you are glad she shared, you're just pointing out that Johnny liked it. The motivation still is external. Share because it makes others happy, rather than because you want to. What if Johnny said he didn't like oatmeal raisin cookies?

There are 2 problems with lots and lots of "good jobs" or "good girl/boy" to me. First it does get silly to say "good job" to bodily functions or other really basic, obvious things, and I see parents do that all the time. Second, I think "good job" often isn't attached to anything. Much like the way I've altered the way I use the word "no," if I say "good job," I try to put something with it. I may say "that was a good attempt on goal" or "you did a good job helping your sister clean up her art project." The problem is randomly saying "good job" so that it becomes so rote it loses its meaning and then is useless.

From a more philosophical perspective, there's a huge amount of information written on adults overcoming various childhood traumas. (As I've said many times on MDC before, I'm an abuse survivor, so I've read more than my share of these books.) One of the biggest issues discussed - and something I *still* struggle with - is the idea of never knowing that anyone loved or cherished me simply because I'm me. Every praise I had was attached to something I did or didn't do. Now obviously I think abuse situations are extreme, but the same concept applies. Your daughter needs (and it seems obvious from her questions) really to just know you love her. Because every positive comment seems tied to something she did or thinks, she really seems to need to know that you just think she's awesome because she's her. If one of my kids said, "am I clever," then I'd probably consider that maybe I hadn't been letting them know how much I love them lately and that I just enjoy them.