Tattling - how to get it to stop!

[MtBikeLover]

DS, almost 7yo, is a big time tattler. He has this problem at school and it has really started to bug some of the teachers. I have been talking to him about when he should tell (ie someone is hurting him or themselves or someone else) and his teachers have said it has gotten a lot better.

So now, I need help fixing it at home. I want him to know that he can come to me about anything and I will listen to him, but I am SICK.TO.DEATH of him telling me every little thing that DD, (almost 5yo) does. Yesterday, I reached the end of my rope and I said "Are you hurt?" he said "No." Then I responded with "From now on, I need you to handle these things yourself. You don't need to tell me every little thing. If she is hurting you then you can tell me. But I am not going to solve all the small problems anymore."

Is that a wrong stance to take? How do you handle it when one kid is always telling on the other one?

[LynnS6]

Does it help to know that some of this is developmental? 7 year olds are very into "rules" and some children get very upset when they see rules being broken.

I have two responses to this:
One is to give it as much emotional energy as I give the weather report. "She told you that was stupid? Does that bother you? Oh, that's too bad."

The other is to talk to my kids about why they're telling me information. "Are you telling me this to get someone into trouble or are you telling me this to get someone out of trouble? If it's going to get someone out of trouble, I need to know, right away. If you think someone should be in trouble, it's my job to enforce the rules, and you don't need to do that."

This latter is really a version of "Who's job is it to take care of/worry about your sister (your classmates)?" That's my job (the teacher's job). When I remind ds of that, life is much happier. Dd is younger, but I have a feeling we'll be having this conversation a lot in the next 2 years. She has a keen sense of right and wrong.

[allgirls]

It's telling if you do it because you or someone else is in trouble/hurt etc.

It's tattling if you do it to GET someone else in trouble.

Explaining that helped my daughter get the difference when reporting to me and the teachers...perhaps he just doesn't get the difference

[JL83]

This is a very hard issue.

I think that kids don't ask for help unless they don't know what to do. It's incredibly unfair to watch another kid do something you *know* is against the rules and they get away with it.

Personally, I wouldn't ignore him. He has no idea how to handle his feelings and minimizing them isn't going to help.

I have no clue why adults try to shut down tattling. Take school for example. The teachers/school make the rules. And then, from some kid's perspective, are very hit or miss about enforcing those rules. Then they react badly when kids try to help them.

Why should kids get away with stuff just because the parent/teacher happens to be busy?

[FiveLittleMonkeys]

When one of our kids come to us with a tattling situation, we ask them, "Is this a tattle or a report?"

In our house, a tattle is to get someone in trouble. A report is keeping someone safe.

I would say 95% of the time, it's a tattle, the kids close their mouths and walk away. They know that I will not tolerate tattling, and sometimes the nudge to have them think about what they are saying first helps.

[ma_vie_en_rose]

If it is a tattle, especially of the "she is bothering me in whatever way" kind, I redirect her to talk to her sister about it instead of me. That seems to be helping a lot. I have also discussed the difference between tattling and reporting. It is slowly sinking into her brain.

[MtBikeLover]

Thanks everyone. I will try some of these suggestions. I've done the "Go talk to your sister about this" which he does. And I have listened to him and sympathized with him, but then he says "Now aren't you going to talk to her?" It is as if he needs justice to be served and I am the one that has to do that. I really want him to learn that he can handle some of these things on his own.

JL83 - I don't want to shut him down which is why I am conflicted on this and how to handle it. But he is becoming almost obsessed with making sure that everyone knows the injustices that are being committed (even if they don't involve him at all) and making sure that they get handled in the manner that he feels is appropriate.

[JL83]

Why would you send away a tattle?

Why should 1 child be allowed to break the rules and get away with it? I think it's really disrespectful to the child doing the "tattling" to dismiss them like that. If you're going to have house rules, they should be enforced no matter who catches the child breaking them.

I am astounded at how many people shut their children down for trying to get some level of fairness.

[JL83]

Originally Posted by MtBikeLover

JL83 - I don't want to shut him down which is why I am conflicted on this and how to handle it. But he is becoming almost obsessed with making sure that everyone knows the injustices that are being committed (even if they don't involve him at all) and making sure that they get handled in the manner that he feels is appropriate.

You might try reading about personality types, especially the myers briggs set. That might explain the personality type which is obsessed with things people fair. Shutting him down will not change his personality.

Also read up on the stages of moral development. Your son does not yet see things as relative (he's stage 1 rather than stage 2). There are rules, and he knows that if he was caught doing that thing he would be "punished" (not saying it would be a real punishment, but he likely knows that there would be at least a consequence like being told NOT to do it). So he wants to make sure that is done fairly.

Simply turning him away every time he tattles won't help him develop. That's something which will happen with time and experience.

[MtBikeLover]

Originally Posted by JL83

Why would you send away a tattle?

Why should 1 child be allowed to break the rules and get away with it? I think it's really disrespectful to the child doing the "tattling" to dismiss them like that. If you're going to have house rules, they should be enforced no matter who catches the child breaking them.

I am astounded at how many people shut their children down for trying to get some level of fairness.

Actually, in our case, it isn't rules that are being broken. We are talking very minor things that are absolutely no big deal - no one is getting hurt, nothing is getting broken, etc.

[MtBikeLover]

Originally Posted by JL83

You might try reading about personality types, especially the myers briggs set. That might explain the personality type which is obsessed with things people fair. Shutting him down will not change his personality.

Also read up on the stages of moral development. Your son does not yet see things as relative (he's stage 1 rather than stage 2).

Great ideas! Thanks! I love myers briggs and I haven't thought to do that for my kids.

[JL83]

Originally Posted by MtBikeLover

Actually, in our case, it isn't rules that are being broken. We are talking very minor things that are absolutely no big deal - no one is getting hurt, nothing is getting broken, etc.

What kinds of things is he saying? My guess is that it's something that he's perceived as a "rule" and maybe got told not to do one time. So, to him, it is a big deal. I remember being that age. And I remember talking with my parents when I was much older and telling them how I hated how many "rules" they had. They were stunned because they didn't think there were many at all. So I started to list all the "rules" I remembered. They had no clue that I'd filed all the things I was told, like "Please put your cup on the counter ontop of the dishwasher" as rules. To me that was the rule, cups had to go on that counter.

[3*is*magic]

Originally Posted by JL83

Why would you send away a tattle?

Why should 1 child be allowed to break the rules and get away with it? I think it's really disrespectful to the child doing the "tattling" to dismiss them like that. If you're going to have house rules, they should be enforced no matter who catches the child breaking them.

I am astounded at how many people shut their children down for trying to get some level of fairness.

But who said that childhood would be fair?

I can't always trust my tattler to provide an accurate picture of the transgression, especially if she's, say, a little resentful that he younger sister got to have a playdate and she didn't, or that her sister got the last brownie. My tattler also isn't always the best judge of the context of the supposed "rule-breaking" and likes to try to get her sister into trouble on technicalities - such as, "Lily said 'stupid' and you said yesterday that if you heard her say it again that she'd lose TV privileges and so now you HAVE to take TV away! RIGHT???" The thing is that Lily might have been on a "stupid" streak yesterday and using her words to hurt a sibling, whereas today she might be commenting on an episode of Martha Speaks. Trying to explain this to my almost 7 year old usually devolves into a discussion that is fruitless and frustrating to us both and usually ends up with her saying something like, "Well I want to use the word 'stupid' whenever I want without ANY CONSEQUENCES! Do you PROMISE I can do that???" I am simply not willing to go there.

That's the long answer to your question. The short answer is that, in the real, grown-up world, no one likes a tattletale . I would certainly hope that my own sister wouldn't tell my mom that I forgot to write a thank you note to her best friend for a gift she sent or that my husband wouldn't tell the kids that I swore out loud when I stubbed my toe. Teaching kid not to tattle is simply part of helping them grow into socially adept, compassionate adults.

ETA: I can see the conversation has progressed significantly since I started composing my answer... Yes, JL83 - kids certainly do have a unique understand of "the rules"!

[shanniesue2]

JL83, I guess the question is: what kind of tattling is it? I teach kindergarten, and I have to say that when a kid says "oooooh... look at him!" And I look over and he's playing with a piece of paper or something ... or they say "John's using two markers at the same time"... that is tattling and I will usually get on to the tattler for it because the only reason they are telling is in the hopes that I will go over and get the other kid in trouble. That is hurtful. (and you would be surprised at just how many times a day this happens)

If they are "tattling" about rule breaking I will usually respond with "are you telling me to helpful or hurtful?" Usually they look confused and then I explain that if they are wanting the other child to follow the rules they are being helpful. But if they are wanting the other child to get in trouble they are being hurtful. Then I ask "what could you do that would be helpfulin this situation?" If they don't know, I tell them that they could remind the other child about what the rule is. I watch and usually it's enough to get the other child to comply with the rules. If it's not, then I go to the other child and say, "Amanda (or whatever the name) is trying to help you do the right thing. She has reminded you about the rule. Do you need my help?" I usually have to go through this process many times, but they eventually get the idea.

But I have to say that if it's tattling like the first example, then yes, I talk to the tattling child about being hurtful and I turn them away. Because that kind of tattling is petty.

[JL83]

Originally Posted by 3*is*magic

Teaching kid not to tattle is simply part of helping them grow into socially adept, compassionate adults.

I would argue that tattling is developmental. Just like there isn't really a way to "teach" babies to sleep better, or that kids will be ready to tie their own shoe laces when they are ready, kids will learn not to tattle when they are capable.

Simply ignoring the tattling child does nothing to teach them this skill faster. It simply teaches them that you don't care, that you aren't interested in their world. Some kids respond well to that. It doesn't bother them. Other kids have a very hard time with it.

I don't think this is something you can force on all kids without there being some negative effects. I'm still very bitter towards my elementary school teachers for how they handled it. They made all these rules and then, from my perspective as a young child, refused to follow through.

[JL83]

Originally Posted by shanniesue2

JL83, I guess the question is: what kind of tattling is it? I teach kindergarten, and I have to say that when a kid says "oooooh... look at him!" And I look over and he's playing with a piece of paper or something ... or they say "John's using two markers at the same time"... that is tattling and I will usually get on to the tattler for it because the only reason they are telling is in the hopes that I will go over and get the other kid in trouble. That is hurtful. (and you would be surprised at just how many times a day this happens)

If they are "tattling" about rule breaking I will usually respond with "are you telling me to helpful or hurtful?" Usually they look confused and then I explain that if they are wanting the other child to follow the rules they are being helpful. But if they are wanting the other child to get in trouble they are being hurtful. Then I ask "what could you do that would be helpfulin this situation?" If they don't know, I tell them that they could remind the other child about what the rule is. I watch and usually it's enough to get the other child to comply with the rules. If it's not, then I go to the other child and say, "Amanda (or whatever the name) is trying to help you do the right thing. She has reminded you about the rule. Do you need my help?" I usually have to go through this process many times, but they eventually get the idea.

But I have to say that if it's tattling like the first example, then yes, I talk to the tattling child about being hurtful and I turn them away. Because that kind of tattling is petty.

At least you allow for tattling to be helpful. I think, from my experience with young children, that's what most of it is. They just want everyone else to follow the same rules they feel obligated to follow. Getting in trouble is part of that. That's what motivates most little kids. And getting into trouble is on a huge continuum.

[EviesMom]

I've really never understood the concept of tattling. There's telling things that are untrue or exaggerating, and I see why those are "wrong." I sort of, but not really, see why it would be annoying for a child to tell things that he/she could/should handle themselves.

But as a child, if I was telling an adult, I felt an adult should handle it. When every kid in your class is treating you like crud, (Yes, actually, literally, every single one) being told "don't tattle" by adults is profoundly mean in my opinion.

Then there's the fact that I later got into trouble for NOT telling when girls were sneaking out to make out with their boyfriends on a class trip. So... "telling is when you or someone else might get hurt; but tattling is when someone else will get in trouble." Um, yeah, by those standards, telling the teachers about the sneaking-out-girls would be tattling. But of course, I got detention for not "tattling" in that case.

In my opinion, if you think the child should handle it on their own, ask what they want you to do about it. If they want you to handle it in some reasonable way, like "tell them to go home since they as guests locked me out of my own room," do it. If they want you to handle it in some unreasonable way, like "take away my sister's tv time for a minor infraction," then explain why you aren't going to do that. A simple "you may tell me the behaviors, you may not decide the punishments for other people" should suffice for anything.

They will stop asking you to step in when it's not reasonable, but you won't start this "no tattling" business. Keep their trust in your worthiness as a person to tell and keep the lines of communication open, don't shut it down and then lament that shutdown when they're teens!

[ssh]

Some kids just have to tell their parents about everything. If no one gets in trouble I don't see how it's tattling. When I was a little kid I told my mom about things I did and things my sister did too. I felt uneasy until I told my mom about things I thought she should know. She didn't really use punishment so I wasn't trying to get anyone in trouble. I didn't do it at school because I didn't have the same level of trust in any other adults.

My DDs are 20 years apart so it's like they were/are only children, so we don't have tattling issues. I don't think I would ignore or punish a child who is just being honest. I also wouldn't punish the child they told on either. When I've been at my younger DDs, age 4, preschool and a child has come up and said "somename is using 2 markers at the same time(or something)" I've said things like 'that's probably ok, would you like to make a dreamcatcher (whatever activity I'm helping with) right now. I think how we react makes it tattling or makes it just keeping the adults informed.

[JL83]

Originally Posted by EviesMom

I've really never understood the concept of tattling. There's telling things that are untrue or exaggerating, and I see why those are "wrong." I sort of, but not really, see why it would be annoying for a child to tell things that he/she could/should handle themselves.

But as a child, if I was telling an adult, I felt an adult should handle it. When every kid in your class is treating you like crud, being told "don't tattle" by adults is profoundly mean in my opinion.

Then there's the fact that I later got into trouble for NOT telling when girls were sneaking out to make out with their boyfriends on a class trip. So... "telling is when you or someone else might get hurt; but tattling is when someone else will get in trouble." Um, yeah, by those standards, telling the teachers about the sneaking-out-girls would be tattling.

In my opinion, if you think the child should handle it on their own, ask what they want you to do about it. If they want you to handle it in some reasonable way, like "tell them to go home since they as guests locked me out of my own room," do it. If they want you to handle it in some unreasonable way, like "take away my sister's tv time for a minor infraction," then explain why you aren't going to do that.

They will stop asking you to step in when it's not reasonable, but you won't start this "no tattling" business. Keep their trust in your worthiness and the lines of communication open, don't shut it down and then lament that shutdown when they're teens!

I would give your kid more information. Listen to what he's saying. Explain why you are or aren't going to do anything with that information. Teach him that way about what's worth reporting and what's better left alone.

[Toolip]

Originally Posted by shanniesue2

JL83, I guess the question is: what kind of tattling is it? I teach kindergarten, and I have to say that when a kid says "oooooh... look at him!" And I look over and he's playing with a piece of paper or something ... or they say "John's using two markers at the same time"... that is tattling and I will usually get on to the tattler for it because the only reason they are telling is in the hopes that I will go over and get the other kid in trouble. That is hurtful. (and you would be surprised at just how many times a day this happens)

This has turned into a really interesting conversation! I'm sure that I was considered a tattler when I was in kindergarten. I really felt strongly that things should be fair, to everyone, I was very comfortable talking to the teacher about it. I'm not a tattler anymore

You mentioned an interesting example, about a kid using two pens, and it really reminded me of my kindergarten experience. There were ALL kinds of arbitrary rules and rules that may have had a good reason behind them, but it wasn't explained to us! My teacher most definitely had a rule about drawing with one pen at a time. I LOVED drawing with 2 or more pens, you know the cool lines you can make! I never did it in class though, because it was against the "rules." If I had seen someone else doing it and the teacher scorned me for alerting them, I would have been very hurt and confused. I guess I was assuming that there was a reason that they didn't want us drawing with 2 pens at a time. Maybe if some explanation was given but to be reprimanded for telling her, I would have been devastated.

I think the bigger problem is the petty rules that kids are expected to follow. It gets broken down into such detail that the rules become impossible to follow all the time. If the rules were more simple like, be respectful of people, Don't hurt peoples feelings or bodies, etc... I think there would be less petty tattling. I know that those rules can make a classroom run much more smoothly but making rules that are only selectively enforced is very confusing.

I think that kids should absolutely learn how to address their siblings/peers directly but I can't imagine telling a kid that I didn't want to hear what they had to say about someone breaking the rules. Maybe it's unclear to them whether it's a safety rule or not. I would rather be the one to make that call and then help them understand why.