When do they understand the concept of counting?

[blizzard_babe]

I mean, DS can say "one two three four five," but I always just thought it was a string of fun syllables to say. Today I was playing around with two toothbrushes in my mouth at once, and he just out of the blue said, "two!" It never occurred to me that he really understood the concept of numeration, and maybe it was just a coincidence.

So... when did your toddlers understand the concept of "two?"

[Violet2]

DD has been sequence counting, with varying levels of success, since about 18-19 months.

She's getting more organized with it and more accurate but she still sometimes counts 4 objects as 8. It just depends on the day I guess.

V

[blizzard_babe]

Yeah, he's 19 months now. Last night he was counting pieces of cheese and said, "one, two, three, four, three, four, ONE!" There were two pieces of cheese.

He counted letters on the front cover of a book and said, "one, one, one, GREEN!" The letter was indeed green so I give him partial credit on that one.

This one just threw me for a loop because we weren't talking about numbers. He wasn't saying "tooth," I know, because he only says "teeth." I'm leaning towards lucky guess.

[sapphire_chan]

In the book "Einstein Never Used Flashcards" they recommend two counting development observations. One for one correspondence where you observe your counting toddler counting each item in a group and only counting it once. Then there's number order where even if the numbers are "wrong" they always count in the same order.

Basically, going 1, 2, 4, 7, 3 for a group of 5 objects and 1, 2, 4 for a group of 3 objects is a more real form of counting than counting 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 for all sizes of groups. Always saying 12345 or 12345678910 when asked to count means that the child has memorized that phrase.

If your toddler counts 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 when there are 5 objects, and 1, 2, 3 when there are 3 objects, he is in fact, counting.

Eta: it sounds like he's in a developing stage. You should watch for him to start using one for one correspondence and number order, it'll be cool for you to see that develop (typically between ages 2 and 4). Then later on (4 to 6 or so) you'll see him start to "count on" where if he's already counted a group and you give him another one he'll just keep counting the new things instead of recounting the whole group. (What you'll see first is "1, 2, 3, 4....1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6" then "1, 2, 3, ....4, 5, 6")

[blizzard_babe]

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan

In the book "Einstein Never Used Flashcards" they recommend two counting development observations. One for one correspondence where you observe your counting toddler counting each item in a group and only counting it once. Then there's number order where even if the numbers are "wrong" they always count in the same order.

Basically, going 1, 2, 4, 7, 3 for a group of 5 objects and 1, 2, 4 for a group of 3 objects is a more real form of counting than counting 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 for all sizes of groups. Always saying 12345 or 12345678910 when asked to count means that the child has memorized that phrase.

If your toddler counts 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 when there are 5 objects, and 1, 2, 3 when there are 3 objects, he is in fact, counting.

I have that book. I think it's time for a re-read.

[butterfly_mommy]

DS has been counting objects upto 3 since he was about 20 mons.

Now he counts like this

One, two, three, four, eight, nine, ten

Maybe your DS was trying out a new word like tooth.

[GAjenn]

My 18 month DD understands up to 10. You can move objects and she will only count what is there.

[Violet2]

Originally Posted by blizzard_babe

Yeah, he's 19 months now. Last night he was counting pieces of cheese and said, "one, two, three, four, three, four, ONE!" There were two pieces of cheese.

He counted letters on the front cover of a book and said, "one, one, one, GREEN!" The letter was indeed green so I give him partial credit on that one.

This one just threw me for a loop because we weren't talking about numbers. He wasn't saying "tooth," I know, because he only says "teeth." I'm leaning towards lucky guess.

I can relate. DD started counting to 20 out of the blue--we never, I mean, never counted with her. Ever. But she does watch Sesame Street.

Since you are having a similar experience to ours thus far... you will probably see a mixed bag of counting skills. DD is sometimes so brilliant, I'm sure she's a genius and then she totally flops. It's a little schizo.

She can count.

No, wait, she can't count.

Oh, she can count.

Nope, not counting.

Okay, this time, she's counting.

I did make an effort to get some counting books and to ask questions like 'how many blocks are in your tower' in response to her counting.

The thing that flips me out is she'll sometimes count correctly but totally screw up the one-to-one correspondence. Like she'll tap the same block over and over or skip blocks and still tell me there are 10 blocks in the tower, which is correct.

V

[blizzard_babe]

Originally Posted by Violet2

I can relate. DD started counting to 20 out of the blue--we never, I mean, never counted with her. Ever. But she does watch Sesame Street.

Since you are having a similar experience to ours thus far... you will probably see a mixed bag of counting skills. DD is sometimes so brilliant, I'm sure she's a genius and then she totally flops. It's a little schizo.

She can count.

No, wait, she can't count.

Oh, she can count.

Nope, not counting.

Okay, this time, she's counting.

I did make an effort to get some counting books and to ask questions like 'how many blocks are in your tower' in response to her counting.

The thing that flips me out is she'll sometimes count correctly but totally screw up the one-to-one correspondence. Like she'll tap the same block over and over or skip blocks and still tell me there are 10 blocks in the tower, which is correct.

V

Yup! The cheese-counting incident, he was going back and forth between the two little cubes of cheese. The only time we've ever really done any counting is while reading the very hungry caterpillar, and I honestly didn't think he was paying all that much attention. I just do it out of habit since I used to use that book to work on numbers with my kindergarten ESL students.

He's equally inconsistent with his colors. I think he knows them. Sometimes. Some of them. And then none of them. And then, the next time, he knows the first one I ask him, and everything after that is the same color as that first one.

Oh, to get just a glimpse into his brain.

[sunshadow]

So now you have me thinking, at about 18-20 I think it was, my daughter was counting things. I can remember her counting some screw heads in our kitchen in Spanish at a pretty young age. (She was in Spanish class until she was 24 months.) She has been counting things really well for awhile. But, really just recently at just 2.5 yo she has shown that she really understands counting. I can't even describe the change really. She is just more consistent, more accurate, and more interested in counting. I think the biggest change is that if she counts something wrong she will start over and do it right. It's like she is really thinking about it now.

[Jennifer Z]

My son had clear one to one correspondence counting at 12-18mo, but did not develop typically. My (mostly) typically developing dd is started to show it at 3yo, but it isn't a solid skill yet. (lower numbers are fine, but get past about 5 and it is a little less reliable)

[Heidi74]

DS is 27 months, and pretty consistently shows one to one correspondence for numbers up to three. As in, if he sees two airplanes in the sky, he´ll count them and tell me there´s two airplanes, or if there are three apples on the table he´ll count them correctly. He may not point to them in "order," but will only count them once. Any more than three, and he tends to count things twice or multiple times, and will lose track of numbers. Sometimes he surprises us and counts up to seven or eight, but he is just as often wrong.

Not sure when he started counting to two correctly. A month or so after his second birthday? I remember that he could recite the numbers up to ten when he turned two, but didn´t really understand at that point. Incidentally, he now recites up to twenty-one in the correct order, but certainly has little understanding of the higher numbers.

Good job to your DS! It´s fun to see these skills develop, isn´t it?

[RoadBuddy]

My 30 month old can say all the numbers up to 29, with a couple flubs in the teens. This is rote counting - somewhere he learned the order and likes saying them. I don't think he quite understands the numbers past 10 - they are just words to him, I think.

He can do one-to-one counting to somewhere around 7. He can point to each item up to 7, say the number, and tell me there are 7 items. If he wants to, of course.

The PBS kids development tracker has 18-24 month olds using number words without really understanding them, but says some understand 2. It has the one-to-one counting at older two or three to four years depending on how high the counting goes. http://www.pbs.org/parents/childdevelopmenttracker/ Go to each age, then the mathematics section. It's quite interesting.

[kcstar]

When DS was getting his 2-month shots, there were four of them. I used my fingers / ASL to tell him there would be four, and I counted each one as he got them. At the last one, I signed "All done" and he stopped crying.

So then we settled in for some comfort nursing.

Not counting, but it is evidence that they understand *something* about numbers very young.

[Shannie77]

My DD is 2.5 and will ask for one, two or three of something and accurately identify a grouping of one, two or three (without counting, just visually). She counts up to 10 but often misses 4. In the last month she has become really fascinated with counting and will hold her fingers up and ask how many there are or choose counting books to read. Before this she understood 1 & 2, and didn't really want to do rote counting.

[Dreamy]

I just got this article in my inbox today, and it made me think of this thread: http://www.babycenter.com/404_how-an...umbers_6899.bc

[blizzard_babe]

Originally Posted by RoadBuddy

The PBS kids development tracker has 18-24 month olds using number words without really understanding them, but says some understand 2. It has the one-to-one counting at older two or three to four years depending on how high the counting goes. http://www.pbs.org/parents/childdevelopmenttracker/ Go to each age, then the mathematics section. It's quite interesting.

Ooh, I always forget about the PBS Kids website! Good stuff.

Originally Posted by Dreamy

I just got this article in my inbox today, and it made me think of this thread: http://www.babycenter.com/404_how-an...umbers_6899.bc

I like the article, but wow... that comment thread got a bit testy.

[GISDiva]

Originally Posted by blizzard_babe

I like the article, but wow... that comment thread got a bit testy.

It sure did!

I think in day care they are working on written number recognition as well as counting, so we'll see how that pans out. I noticed as we were looking at his "numbers" book, he points to the number and wants me to tell him what it is. He likes to say "one" "two" or "three", but I haven't noticed him consistently using them properly.

[Llyra]

I think that for my kids it came on slowly between age 2 and age 3. I think they understood "two" before then, but we're late talkers in this family, so I don't think they started rote counting even until past 2 years old. I know that by 2, DD1 could count to ten, although she sometimes mixed up the order of the numbers, and I think the twins could do it within a few months of turning 2.

As for counting objects, I know that all of them could hand me two of something if I asked for it by about 20 months, and earlier for DD2. I know DD1 could count objects reliably to 11 (???) by 23 months old, because that's when she started a preschool program, and we were all surprised that she could already count so well. But I couldn't say for sure when it happened-- I was sick that whole year and nursing infant twins, so it sure wasn't me!

The twins are 30 months now. DS can count two objects, and sometimes three, and then he gets all confused and asks me if he can have them to play with, or eat, or whatever, or starts saying silly numbers to make me laugh-- "eighty-forty-nine-BANANAS, mama!" and stuff like that.

DD2 is more serious about it. I know she can count her fingers on one hand, up to five, and show me the number of fingers I ask her to show. But she always mixes up six, seven, and eight, so she can really only count to 5.

[lnitti]

Originally Posted by RoadBuddy

The PBS kids development tracker has 18-24 month olds using number words without really understanding them, but says some understand 2. It has the one-to-one counting at older two or three to four years depending on how high the counting goes. http://www.pbs.org/parents/childdevelopmenttracker/ Go to each age, then the mathematics section. It's quite interesting.

What??? My dd2 understood 1 and 2 when she was under a year old. I don't mean just the words, but the difference between 1 of an object and 2 of the object. In fact she would always demand to have 2 of any food. 1 was never enough - LOL!

She is 27 months old and for quite a while (progressing from when she would count 1-2 before a year old), she can recite 1- some number, right now it is 11 or 12. She also will count objects to that same number. For a period of time, she would always skip the #2 when counting unless there were 2 of an object.

She cannot look at a group of objects and accurately just say how many without actually counting the items in the group.