Mommy Dearest: Trying to get child to eat? - Page 3

[Llyra]

Originally Posted by heartmama

Just one--although I had the idea from a mother of three (and I think it came from Dr. Sears who had seven or eight kids)--during toddlerhood I only really offered whole foods, so there wasn't any prep work after the initial cutting/dicing of foods into smaller pieces in the morning. If you spend all day in the kitchen that must be a different approach than what I'm describing?

I don't know. Here's what I'm thinking of: child X wants eggs for breakfast, so I cook those. Child Y announces he wants cereal, so I serve that, but then he changes his mind and wants yogurt. Child Z isn't hungry. But fifteen minutes after I clean up breakfast, Child Z announces HE really wants eggs after all. Then by the time we finish that, the other two are ready for a snack. I serve it, and then they change their mind and want something else. Fast forward all the day to dinner, when I cook a great meal, and nobody will eat it but me and DH, because Child X really wants applesauce, and Child Y really wants more yogurt, and Child Z isn't hungry, but decides he's hungry right as we're on our way up to bed.

That's the situation I imagine, with a totally unstructured approach. It's roughly the situation we had when DD1 was a young toddler, before the other two came along. When the twins started eating solid food, I realized that was not a way of living I was willing to live with, and that a few consistent rules about when we eat were going to have to be necessary.

Plus, we don't eat packaged food here. We mostly raise our own food, or buy from local farmers, and we don't eat very many grain-based foods, because of my special medical needs, so it's not like I have quick somethings I can grab. I make our own yogurt, I make our own applesauce, etc. That's not a choice for us-- I am able to eat very little packaged stuff because of my dietary needs. So it does change things a lot.

[clipfish]

In our house, you have to try a few bites of everything being served.

When I'm making something I'm pretty sure that my son won't eat, I just throw something else on the table that I know he will eat in bigger quantities.

For example, he still (at 6) won't eat sauce on his pasta. So, I give him a piece or two with sauce on it, as that is how it is being served, and when he eats that, he gets the plain pasta I've reserved in the kitchen. It does mean that I do go through some extra effort when I am cooking to put things aside sometimes, but I can do that.

There are days when I know he really doesn't like something, like last night's split pea soup. So, I serve his tablespoon of soup with a grilled cheese sandwich. I'm not sure now if he actually tasted his bite of soup, but that's all right too. It was offered.

[heartmama]

Llyra--that post just made me tired reading it! Maybe someone can describe it better than me--but no it is not like what you described. I prepped food once in the morning--usually filling small ice cube trays that ds could graze on during the day. If I made a meal for dh and I, ds ws free to eat it or not eat it--nutritionally, his diet was already well rounded from what was already available. There was nothing in the house he could ask for that wasn't already prepped or that would have taken more than a second to scoop into a bowl for him (like the yogurt example). I spent very little time in the kitchen (you mentioned spending a lot of time in the kitchen when you just had one child, so that makes me think this is a different approach). Just like when ds was nursing or had bottles--he didn't need me to remind him to eat, he 'grazed' all the time. I sort of mimicked that with whole foods--there were little trays of natural foods and he gravitated towards them when he was hungry. Sure, I might suggest he eat if he seemed cranky and I thought that was the problem--but for the most part he ate if he was hungry, just like he used to nurse or want a bottle when he was hungry.

I'm not saying mealtimes are bad--especially as children get older, and go longer between meals, and can generally be reasoned with in following certain food rules--meals can be a fun family experience. However the OP was dealing with a single toddler, so the idea of set mealtimes may be needlessly stressful at this point...

Edited to add: thinking about the cooking example, I think it's completely reasonable to have set times you are willing to cook, and times when you refuse. I think that is what you are hitting on--whether I'm suggesting parents live in the kitchen as short order cooks. That could not be farther from it. If you want to go in the kitchen three a day to cook that is fine. I am just saying, I would have other foods available during the 'off' times. In some Native American cultures the entire community eats from foods that are prepared once in the morning and made available to anyone through the day (beans, corn, etc). If you are hungry, you go eat. Nobody has to stop everything to feed you. I kind of raised ds in that spirit...

[Thalia the Muse]

For very young toddlers, I think grazing is fine, but my own feeling is that as they get older it's important to learn a more structured, social way to eat. That it's culturally important for humans to eat together in a formal, almost ritual way, and that the move toward constant grazing in the car, in front of the TV, most of the time eating alone whatever fast thing we can get our hands on and no two people in a family eating the same thing at the same time-- that this has been bad for us as a society.

I think learning to wait for a meal is important, and learning to prepare and share food and use good manners while eating it and talking to each other. It's not something kids need to learn right away by any means -- especially not if there's already a power struggle established around food -- but I do think they need to learn it eventually.

[Llyra]

Yeah, I think part of the disagreement between my approach and the one heartmama describes is that we in our house very much value the social aspects of having mealtimes. Dinner time for example is the center of our day as a family.

I think our approaches just come from a different set of values about how eating should look.

I do think that both approaches have merit, and provide viable alternatives for a mama who's struggling to deal with toddlers and food. I think that even if you're opposed to structured mealtimes for young ones, you have to admit it's better than the kind of approach that consists of begging, pleading, cajoling, bribing, threatening, serving up the same cold congealed meal multiple times, insisting a child sit for hours until a meal is finished, etc. That was the approach a lot of my friends grew up with, and I like to think my approach is significantly better, even if it is a lot more structured than yours

I think also that it depends on what kinds of foods you're eating. We do eat what I'd describe as whole foods, but other than fruit and cheese, our eating is mostly cooked food, not raw, except in the summer and early fall when garden veggies are available. We don't really always eat the kinds of foods that lend themselves to nibbling, especially in the winter, when we're depending heavily on what I put up in the summer and fall from our gardens and our CSA. We eat a lot of stews, curries, soups, chiles, and similar foods. Our fresh veggies this time of year are mostly greens like kale or turnip greens, or live stored stuff like rutabagas and turnips. Our other veg is coming from home canning or freezing. I think that makes a difference, too.

[heartmama]

Yes, meals are definitely sociable--breastfeeding is sociable, and even grazing toddlers will tend to want to eat when mama eats as well as at other times--but the 'family time' aspect is probably more appreciated as children get older, unless you have a very cooperative toddler. However the sociable aspect of eating together is not married to any one eating approach. Having children come to the table willingly and happily in the spirit of sharing time together is separate from whether they eat what is on their plate or are/are not forbidden from eating things at other times. Dh is Italian and we tend to have family coffee times--ds would have sips of decaf when he was small, or chocolate soy milk, and we had some kind of sweet dessert everyone loves. Naturally, no need to convince anybody to participate *lol*.

[Encinalien]

I forgot. I wanted to add this- it's about behaving In a store. You should take walks with your toddler to practice walking togeather and practice keeping them moving with you. They will stop at every pebble, flower, bird. You'll never get anywhere. This is a good time to work out a compromise. They're not little obedient robots. You have to let them stop and look at some of the stuff, but not all. They're mind's not really set on the idea of "going forward", yours is. You learn to work out a rhythm of compromise in a less-stressful situation because it really doesn't matter- you're just taking a walk, not trying to get your shopping done. The toddler starts to listen a little better because they know that you'll stop sometimes and let them examine a pebble, just not every time. You'll have more patience because you'll have time to give the baby undivided attention. You can judge better which times to pick them up and carry them for a few seconds, when to just tell them "no come on, we have to keep walking", and when to stop and let them pick up a few pebbles.

This idea came from a post somewhere around here on MDC. I forgot what the thread was about, but I remember the sentence, "find time to practice these things when you're at home and it really doesn't matter.". So we practice walking togeather to the post office. I kinda let him take his time but I insist we keep going and stay focused on getting there. It's funny how many times someone we know sees us and tries to offer a ride. I'm like "my truck's not broke, we're just walking for the excercise."

hey, you know what. Maybe you should play "tea party with the girly and her stuffed animals to introduce her to the social aspects of mealtime, then use the same tone of voice during dinner?"

[swd12422]

I haven't had time to read all the responses, so I'll just respond to the OP...

I don't think it's wrong to say, "This is what I made for dinner. You can eat it or not, your choice." B/c it does sound like a little power struggle going on. She needs to know that even if she doesn't get to choose what's for dinner, she can choose to eat or not. If you're concerned she'll be hungry, start giving her a bedtime snack, like fruit or yogurt (maybe make it the same every night so there's no choice), as part of the routine. Then at least you both know she has another opportunity to eat before bedtime and not be hungry.

Once she realizes you're serious, she'll likely start eating more at dinner. If the issue is that she claims not to like things, just make sure that dinner is two or three different foods (like spaghetti, bread and salad), so that she might find it easier to "compromise" and eat just one thing. So what if she only eats bread for dinner one night? It won't kill her, anymore than not eating at all for a day or two would.

Also, would it help to have her more involved in preparing the food? Maybe making it fun for her would make her more interested in eating....

Good luck! I haven't run into a lot of this yet, but it's been slowly gaining speed in our house and I see it coming!

[sgmom]

Originally Posted by swd12422

If you're concerned she'll be hungry, start giving her a bedtime snack, like fruit or yogurt (maybe make it the same every night so there's no choice), as part of the routine.

I don't agree with not offering choices. I would suggest giving her two choices of a pre-bedtime snack, and changing what those choices are (so she doesn't pick the same thing night after night). My reason for this is to teach her that she has a choice of "this or that, or nothing at all", but she doesn't have the freedom to eat whatever she wants. You are giving her the choice of two foods. "These are your choices". Not having a choice at all, and being told "eat this or eat nothing" can lead a child to great upset.

Originally Posted by swd12422

Also, would it help to have her more involved in preparing the food? Maybe making it fun for her would make her more interested in eating....

I strongly agree with this. Kids who are involved in the making of dinner, often are much more interested in eating it.

[swd12422]

Originally Posted by sgmom

I don't agree with not offering choices. I would suggest giving her two choices of a pre-bedtime snack, and changing what those choices are (so she doesn't pick the same thing night after night). My reason for this is to teach her that she has a choice of "this or that, or nothing at all", but she doesn't have the freedom to eat whatever she wants. You are giving her the choice of two foods. "These are your choices". Not having a choice at all, and being told "eat this or eat nothing" can lead a child to great upset.
...

You know, I have no idea why I said no choice on the snack. I guess I was thinking just to keep your sanity! Since dinner is always different, and an issue, maybe if the snack is always the same (not a "bedtime snack" but a "bedtime banana") she'll be more likely to eat it. But sgmom is right, just like with dinner, it's probably better to give her the choice. I'm too enmeshed in my own toddler mindgames today!

[Swan3]

Oh man. It's taken me so long to get to this place because my DD was exactly as you described. And with the label "failure to thrive" on top I was a mess and couldn't deal with her not eating thinking I was starving her.

Here's what I do now and it's working pretty well. Easier said than done but mealtimes are no longer a power struggle.

1. Feed every two hours
2. Provide choices that are likely wins (but still healthy)
3. Do NOT intervene, as in no spoon feeding
4. When she's done...she's done. I leave the plate out for another 20 in case she changes her mind - then remove the plate
5. Don't worry about what was consumed this meal, she'll catch up next meal, or the one after that.
6. In my experience, toddlers hate foods that are mixed up like casseroles. I separate foods on her plate, put sauces on the side so she can dip or not etc etc

Just a few things that are working for me after about two years of struggling...HOpe things get better for you. Here's two books that are excellent as well:

My Child Won't Eat by Dr Carlos Gonzalez
Child of Mine: Feeding your Child with Love and Good Sense Ellen Satter

PS...I don't mean to say providing choices as in being a short order cook. If I introduce something new, I'll also include as part of the meal something she'd like. For example...I make a new stew...but have rice as a side because I know she likes that. She also likes avocados...so I might have that as a side and we ALL get served the same food...she may only eat the rice, but I've made my peace with that!

PPS!!! I just remembered what's really tipped the balance of even getting her to sit with us. I turn ALL of the lights out except for where we're eating.

[Phantome]

I tell her whatever it is that she's afraid of, "Just try it. If you don't like it, you can spit it in my hand. Just try it." 9 out of 10 times, she won't.

I don't know, but it sounds like you're making way too big a deal over it, and setting her up to expect not to like it. Just make the food, serve it, and don't even say a word about it being new or try to cajole her into trying just one bite, but gush a bit about how good it is, and how you're so glad that you get to each such yummy and nutritious food. Don't encourage her to try it, but just model the enjoyment.

If she eats it, praise her, but if she doesn't, or whines about it, just ignore it or don't give it a response. When the meal's done, it's done- don't mention her eating or not eating again.

I remember when I was little my parents would make a big deal over something being new and how I had better try at least one bite, and I was automatically turned against it and suspicious before the food was even set on the table. I was convinced that if they were making this big a deal already, then I probably wouldn't like it and they were just trying to trick me into trying it. They eventually quit doing that, and treated meals as a matter-of-course, and never mentioned it again. My pickiness stopped right away, and now there's not a food out there that I don't eat. Good luck!

-Phan

[DevaMajka]

I always told ds that he couldn't know he didn't like it if he hadn't tried it. Honestly, how could one know? He didn't HAVE to try anything, but he couldn't say he didn't like it if he didn't try it.

I'm sure that's mostly semantics, but it seems to have gotten him to eat more than if I'd tried to convince him to either try "one bite", or that he would like it.

[mort20]

It's really hard to force kids to eat, especially when it is something they do not like. What you should do is put a twist on her meals. Make it look like more enjoyable, for example, make the garnishing more beautiful, something that would really make her touch and taste the food.