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Writing names on the board for discipline. - Page 2

post #21 of 63
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by EFmom
zinemama pretty much said what I mean, better than I would say it. When my kid is disruptive, I want her to be called on it.
ITA, but why in this way? Isn't there a better way? I don't really know, I'm trying to do some reading on this. It just doesn't feel right to me.
post #22 of 63
Here is one link to a "what is positive discipline?" article that might be helpful. I'm going to look for more.

http://www.positivediscipline.com/Wh...PD_Article.pdf
post #23 of 63
My dh doesn't humiliate students. When he hears students talking in class, he looks at them and asks in a friendly manner if they have a question. He says he wants to first believe they were talking about the class. If they don't have any questions, they usually stay quiet for the remainder of the class. He doesn't have to punish them.

In other schools I have gone to, the disruptive child is asked to leave the room. There are probably better ways, but that sounds better than "I'm going to put your name on the bad list," which sounds petty and immature.
post #24 of 63
My opinion is that using shame with younger children, say under 9th grade, is inappropriate. By the time they are in high school, and they realize the full consequences of their misbehavior or fooling around, most kids can probably "take it" if their name is written on a board; not only that, but they have other ways of feeling good about themselves even if they are in trouble. Furhter it might even be "cool" to be one of the 'bad ones' whose name is on the board---all depending on the child. But when they are young I think the shaming is too much to bear in the classroom.

I usually shoot for natural or logical consquences--A more logical outcome of spilling water would have been for her to clean it up! If she really was goofing around and 'making her teacher's job harder' she might have been asked to also help the teacher with something after class to then 'make the teacher's job easier.'

I think I would speak to the teacher directly about it if it upset your daughter so much. I am learning from other moms around me that we do have to choose our battles, but we also can't get walked on. If you present yourself intelligently as someone who has thought this out, and is not just giving them a "knee jerk" reaction, it seems you should be heard.

Try the positive discipline link above; it is in Adobe, so I hope you can open it!
post #25 of 63
Thread Starter 
Thanks! I actually downloaded that earlier and read it. :LOL

I don't think I could talk to the teacher. I have a really bad memory problem and I wouldn't even remember half of what I wanted to say. I could have my dh do it, but I don't know how well that would work. I will do more reading though and maybe even print a few things out to show her if need be.

Thanks for all the replies! I really appreciate everyone sharing their opinion with me.

BTW, I understand what you mean about older kids being able to take it better. My daughter is only 9 and is very sensitive.
post #26 of 63
I don't have a problem with it either. while a lesson is being presented children need to behave appropriately. there is a time to be silly and a time to be serious and concentrate on the lesson. if you , as the child, choose to be silly, then an action is called for. It sounds like this teacher is using this name on the board thing to manage her classroom.


I write childrens' name on the board myself. It is just my way of maintaining control over 27 1st graders. Its is funny, but kids don't want their name on the board. It is a big deal to them.
post #27 of 63
As a teacher myself, I would suggest that you call the teacher and speak to her in person. I would suggest telling her that the name on the board thing really embarrasses your child and then suggest something that you know will work. Many times teachers are willing to accomodate IF there is another suggestion given.
post #28 of 63
Quote:
Originally posted by camprunner
As a teacher myself, I would suggest that you call the teacher and speak to her in person. I would suggest telling her that the name on the board thing really embarrasses your child and then suggest something that you know will work. Many times teachers are willing to accomodate IF there is another suggestion given.
As a former teacher, I'd say ditto to this reply. Just give the teacher a call and talk about what happened, why you and your child were upset, and what could be done instead in the future.
post #29 of 63
I'm not an elementary school teacher, so my opinion is given from a slightly different perspective.

It seems like a lot of people have misconceptions about what it is like to keep a crowd of children under control and on task so they can learn. People think we have time for 20 private conversations with students during the day for misbehavior. While that may be ideal, the truth is, we do not. This is the system we work under. If there is a problem with the system, railing against the teachers does nothing productive -- they're just doing the best they can given the circumstances. Blaming teachers for the ills of the school system is ridiculous. Are there bad teacher out there? Some. But the vast majority of people are teachers because they love it and because they really care about kids.

The goal of writing a student's name on the board is not to shame them, although it may make them feel bad. (Which is sometimes desirable, as it gets someone to stop a misbehavior.) The goal is to let the student know their behavior is inappropriate without disrupting the rest of the students' learning.

For example, let's pretend the class is busy discussing the merits of our two-party government. We're discussing, we're discussing, and I notice Junior in the back jokingly hitting Marsha (and yes, high schoolers hit each other). We keep talking, we're talking, and I move to stand next to Junior to let him know that I don't like his behavior. He stops what he's doing because I'm next to him. We continue our discussion, and I move back to where I can see the whole class. I notice Junior has now turned on his CD player and put the headphones on. I then say, "Now, what about other countries? Do they have two party systems? What do you think, Junior?" Junior has to become focused on the class again, but I have not disrupted the learning of the other students. He mumbles an answer and we continue our discussion. I then notice Junior hitting Marsha again and I continue talking, not disrupting the lesson, and write Junior's name on the board. He now knows he has moved up to the next level of consequences for inappropriate behavior. He knows that the next step is a conference with his parents. He realizes he doesn't want that and stops what he's doing. (BTW, students are made aware on the first day of class what the consequences are for inappropriate behavior.)

Now, it hardly ever gets that far in my class because I have a good relationship with the vast majority of my students. However, there are students who have been so absolutely disrespectful and out of line to me or another student that the immediate escalation of consequences is necessary.

What is important is that one student hell-bent on causing trouble not be able to disrupt the learning of the 32 other students in my class who want to learn.

I realize this is not directly applicable to your small child and the water/not finishing work on time, but I am trying to give an example of how names on the board are used and are appropriate.

Do not send in discipline handouts to the teacher. It will do nothing but irk her. She will not change her discipline methods. (And BTW, most schools do have a written discipline plan.) If you're concerned, make it only about your child. Give her a call or write her an email.
post #30 of 63
Thread Starter 
I don't blame the teacher for the name/board thing. It's a school policy. If my daughter was telling the truth about the whole situation then the teacher was out of line, and for that I do blame her.

At this point I don't know if I should even say or do anything about this. I'm thinking that maybe I should pick my battles. :
post #31 of 63
Quote:
Originally posted by AnnMarie
I don't blame the teacher for the name/board thing. It's a school policy. If my daughter was telling the truth about the whole situation then the teacher was out of line, and for that I do blame her.

At this point I don't know if I should even say or do anything about this. I'm thinking that maybe I should pick my battles. :
I am also a high school teacher so this may not apply. However there are many times when I've had to contact a parent about discipline and many times ended up in a conference with the principal (my choice to have him there), the parent, and I. In almost all cases the parent had no idea their child wasn't telling the truth. And in the same case the child had already confessed the bad behavior to the principal. In other cases the child leaves out some important details.

I'm sure your child is probably telling you the truth but beware. Children do occasionally stretch the truth.
post #32 of 63
Why not just write the child's name on a piece of paper, without alerting the rest of the class, and then talk with the child after class or send a note home with parents (or schedule a conference?) I think if a child is misbehaving they deserve a chance to tell their side of the story instead of just being told "you were bad."

Actually, why write the name at all? Why not make a mental note to speak with the child after class? If so many kids in class are misbehaving that the teacher cannot keep track of them all, maybe a change in teaching method or classroom setting should be considered.

There is something especially demeaning about making a child get up and write her own name. This is disrupting to the class as well.
post #33 of 63
My point was that when my kid is good day in and day out, never gets in trouble and ALWAYS does what they are supposed to do (in every way) .... I expect the teacher to cut them some slack when they have an off day. That means not trying to humiliate my child by writing their name on the board or making them move their cloths pin. I really, really try not to be one of those parents who put their head in the sand, but sometimes it is perfectly fine to have a private conversation with my child away from the class. I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but teachers do know how kids will react, they 'know' these kids. Some kids do need the example of their peers watching them get in trouble. For some kids, it will have the complete opposite effect. Sounds like your daughter (like mine) is the sort of child who cannot tolerate being embarrassed in front of their peers. I would call the teacher. Just from what you have outlined, sounds like this teacher was on a power trip and making an example. That is totally unacceptable. I agree that you should pick your battles. BUT! Teachers are human, they are going to have favorites and they are going to have children whom they don't warm up to, I am there to make sure my kids teachers are on my side.

I rambled too much didn't I?
post #34 of 63
AnnMarie and Greaseball

It seems to me that you have not read my explanation of what the system might be. If the teacher is using Assertive Discipline techniques, she may well be writing all names down - the ones who are on task, and those who are not.

So, Greaseball, if 'they' (meaning teachers who do use AD, who may or not be those at AnnMarie's daughter's school) 'they' are making note of children who are getting rewarded for good behaviour along with those on a consequence. It works with a warning first, then a series of consequences, that the children have decided previously. It is NOT supposed to be humiliating. So, as I said, it may or may not be the big deal that an adult thinks it is. They are not usually supposed to use the board, but a notepad or something, but some teachers choose to make it public to create a really positive atmosphere where children can see who is earning class points or rewards.

Anyway, I"m sorry that my attempt at explaining what the school system might be, was misinterpreted. I never said or meant that is isnt a big deal to humiliate children. I said that if it is a part of an AD approach, then it is not intended to humiliate and might not be a big deal (although AnnMaries later posts clarified that to her daughter, it was a big deal)

Teachers can't always remember every single thing to talk to a child about after class. AD used badly can be very negative. Used properly, it is not. There is nothing in the system that advocates humiliation of any sort. I am not a big fan of AD, as I dont believe in rewards, more than that I don't believe in consequences. However, as I tried to explain, it is preferable for a new teacher or a difficult class than no discipline strategies.

I agree with others that if you send in discipline ideas to the teacher you will really get off on the wrong foot. Better to go in and ask what happened and talk about your dd being upset by it. Maybe it's not a big deal to most of the class. Maybe it isn't meant to humilate, but it upset your particular child. Maybe your child needs some strategies for dealing with challenges like this in class. My point is, that you don't know until you talk to the school.

One thing that really bugs me is when people tar all teachers with the same brush, often because they suffered at the hands of a few as a child. Honestly, virtually no teacher wants to humilate children. I worked with hundreds over the years, and only met maybe one or two who humilated children. Right now, I can only think of one. I met many who had difficulties with discipline and experimented with systems such as Assertive Discipline, but none of them wanted to humilate children.

Without the whole picture you are unable to really know what is going on. Just go and talk to the teacher, and bear in mind that this just might not be the 'big deal' that you are assuming. That was my point.
post #35 of 63
greaseball, the writing the names on the board is much more effective than their name on the board. i can already see me getting zero results with the name on the paper.
post #36 of 63
Quote:
Originally posted by Britishmum
AnnMarie and Greaseball

It seems to me that you have not read my explanation of what the system might be. If the teacher is using Assertive Discipline techniques, she may well be writing all names down - the ones who are on task, and those who are not.

So, Greaseball, if 'they' (meaning teachers who do use AD, who may or not be those at AnnMarie's daughter's school) 'they' are making note of children who are getting rewarded for good behaviour along with those on a consequence. It works with a warning first, then a series of consequences, that the children have decided previously. It is NOT supposed to be humiliating. So, as I said, it may or may not be the big deal that an adult thinks it is. They are not usually supposed to use the board, but a notepad or something, but some teachers choose to make it public to create a really positive atmosphere where children can see who is earning class points or rewards.

Anyway, I"m sorry that my attempt at explaining what the school system might be, was misinterpreted. I never said or meant that is isnt a big deal to humiliate children. I said that if it is a part of an AD approach, then it is not intended to humiliate and might not be a big deal (although AnnMaries later posts clarified that to her daughter, it was a big deal)

Teachers can't always remember every single thing to talk to a child about after class. AD used badly can be very negative. Used properly, it is not. There is nothing in the system that advocates humiliation of any sort. I am not a big fan of AD, as I dont believe in rewards, more than that I don't believe in consequences. However, as I tried to explain, it is preferable for a new teacher or a difficult class than no discipline strategies.

I agree with others that if you send in discipline ideas to the teacher you will really get off on the wrong foot. Better to go in and ask what happened and talk about your dd being upset by it. Maybe it's not a big deal to most of the class. Maybe it isn't meant to humilate, but it upset your particular child. Maybe your child needs some strategies for dealing with challenges like this in class. My point is, that you don't know until you talk to the school.

One thing that really bugs me is when people tar all teachers with the same brush, often because they suffered at the hands of a few as a child. Honestly, virtually no teacher wants to humilate children. I worked with hundreds over the years, and only met maybe one or two who humilated children. Right now, I can only think of one. I met many who had difficulties with discipline and experimented with systems such as Assertive Discipline, but none of them wanted to humilate children.

Without the whole picture you are unable to really know what is going on. Just go and talk to the teacher, and bear in mind that this just might not be the 'big deal' that you are assuming. That was my point.
post #37 of 63
Quote:
Originally posted by Greaseball
Why not just write the child's name on a piece of paper, without alerting the rest of the class, and then talk with the child after class or send a note home with parents (or schedule a conference?) I think if a child is misbehaving they deserve a chance to tell their side of the story instead of just being told "you were bad."

Actually, why write the name at all? Why not make a mental note to speak with the child after class? If so many kids in class are misbehaving that the teacher cannot keep track of them all, maybe a change in teaching method or classroom setting should be considered.

There is something especially demeaning about making a child get up and write her own name. This is disrupting to the class as well.
Here's why: I teach in three different rooms during the day. I move rooms after my class is over. Students move rooms too. They have five minutes to get to a class on the other side of the building while making their way through a crowd of 1800 people. The same for me. I save private conferences for egregious behavior.

It's very easy for you, as a non-teacher, to say that we should just make a mental note. Or to give everyone a chance to tell their side of the story. It just doesn't work that way. Come take a look at my workload.

I also don't make students get up and write their own names; I agree that it's disruptive, and you'd then get into an argument about whether or not they should get up, etc.

Sometimes it doesn't matter WHY someone is doing something. It doesn't matter WHY Junior is hitting Marsha. He needs to stop. Even is Marsha had done something bad to him, hitting is not appropriate. Allowing misbehavior to continue sends the message to the rest of the students that you don't care how people act and that you'll do nothing about it. Other students need to see YOU, the teacher, stick up for THEM, students who want to learn. If a student is allowed to disrupt the class with no repercussions, it disrupts the learning of the others, which is ultimately what school is about.
post #38 of 63
Quote:
Sometimes it doesn't matter WHY someone is doing something. It doesn't matter WHY Junior is hitting Marsha. He needs to stop. Even is Marsha had done something bad to him, hitting is not appropriate.
Adults who commit wrongful acts get their chance to tell their side of the story. Children should have the same right. Even if the adult is not going to get away with it - like in the case of a traffic ticket - the police will at least take the time to ask why.

Hitting is a situation where I would want the child out of the room. He could still explain himself later, but I wouldn't feel comfortable if children who hit other children could stay in the classroom with just a warning. If I'm watching another child and he hits my dd, I separate them. If dd hits me or dh, she has to leave the room.

It's not only me and other non-teachers who feel that humiliating children, even if it does procude the desired result, should not be allowed. My dh is a teacher and he believes this as well. So do other teachers. And I believe it's up to the child to decide what is humiliating. I'm sure that when the schools put together their discipline policies, they do not take into consideration how the children feel.
post #39 of 63
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Britishmum
AnnMarie and Greaseball

It seems to me that you have not read my explanation of what the system might be. If the teacher is using Assertive Discipline techniques, she may well be writing all names down - the ones who are on task, and those who are not.

I understood, and no she is not. They do not write down the names of the kids that have been good.
post #40 of 63
ITA with Sharonal. My dh is an experienced public school teacher. I think that many have a very unrealistic notion of what a teacher can do, discipline-wise, and still maintain order in the room and actually teach a lesson. I also have a difficult time seeing that as a particularly harsh punishment. In fact, it seems quite benign to me.
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