Well, I was asked to leave L&L class

[Labbemama]

On week 6, of course I was the only one of 8 of us still left in the class.

None of it seems appropriate in my kids' cases and they lost me on an example about suicide where the gist of it was "well that is your choice but it would hurt you the most, it wouldn't hurt your mom and me as much as it would hurt you."

IF you call the suicide hotline I doubt very much that is what the volunteer will say to you!!!

Having a child with current suicidal ideation and attempts I was HORRIFIED. Having lost a baby, I just can't imagine EVER saying something as uncaring as that to my kid. I think that was in week 4, because week 5 we had bronchitis and I called in sick.

The instructor asked me why did I keep coming back and I told her I was hoping to glean something from it and that I used to get something from group discussions but alas there was no group left.

I also offended her by asking about if they have to demonstrate their proficiency in this with some sort of practicum or if it's just take classes and you become an instructor. She's an intern with no kids. She was quite offended by the question, but I want to know, how do I know what populations this is appropriate for because all I hear is "Well what does your therapist say, this is no substitute for therapy." Total cop out. I guarantee our therapist doesn't say well basically your'e only hurting yourself if you slit your wrists.

So I need something else, more love and less monetary punishment/rewards. Something for kids with PTSD, depression, ADHD.

Any suggestions?

[BellinghamCrunchie]

I used to work in that field, when I was younger and before I had a child. I worked with at-risk youth and we counseled/provided support for foster parents.

When I look back at the advice we gave, it was completely and utterly wrong and backwards. I'm sure it caused more harm than good. It was heavily focused on the "its your choice" mindset, as though a child's reaction to the painful experiences in their lives were trivial, and could be completed addressed on a cognitive level. We also had no other tools but behaviorism.

I don't know where you can find a source, a group, or a method that truly tells you, the parent, how to heal pain, how to maintain a child's self-esteem when they have areas of differentness that are apparent to others, how to reach the hurting child.

MDC has so far been the best source of advice I've found. Even then, you have to find those posters that have an extra big dose of insight and compassion.

I think you're probably mainly on your own, honestly. If you keep looking, you might find a particular individual who is really great and who gets it right. But that individual is a rarity, and there is no place I can point to and say "you're more likely to find such a therapist here." They could be anywhere. So you pull good advice from a variety of sources, read as much as you can, and pick out the good stuff. Might as well start with Reactive Attachment Disorder stuff, not because it sounds like you have a child with that particular issues, but because all real healing probably does have to do with attachment. At least, that is what my many, many at-risk foster kids seemed to need more than anything. With a safe, secure base, they're in a much better position to weather the freaking storms that life keeps throwing at them.

[sapphire_chan]

This is going to sound weird, but is there any chance that your kid(s) would be willing to read a parenting book themselves? I'm thinking specifically of "Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline" which addresses self-discipline as a parenting tool.

And a : to using MDC. If you can't post details publicly, check around for posters who have given helpful advice on similar topics (e.g. Ruthla ) and then PM and ask if they'd be willing to comment on a particular topic.

There are also mamas who had their children suicide. While I wouldn't approach them directly (on this topic at least), a thread requesting that any one with experience send you a PM with what they wish someone had said to a loved one might get you helpful information.

You yourself might get some help with how you speak to your child(ren?) from other parenting books suggested in this forum. The one I suggested up above deals particularly with empathy, which might be helpful.

[Labbemama]

I mean that is the ultimate choice right. I sure wouldn't want to nudge her in that direction if she was reaching out for help.

Thanks for your pms.

That was right in the training video by one of the founders of L&L. I believe it was Jim Fay.
Maybe I'll write him directly because this is dangerous advice in my personal and professional experience and anyone in that situation with their child should be directed to take them to the nearest ER.

[Labbemama]

This is the email that I sent to the staff of L&L

Dear Staff of Love and Logic,

I am writing to you due to concern about your advice in a love and logic training video. I believe it is in the 4th week of the training videos and it talks about when a child says they are suicidal and I believe Jim Fay speaks and says that is a choice that will hurt them the most, not the child's mother and father.

I was truly offended as a mental health professional and a parent of a child with suicidal ideation and as a person who has had a family member complete suicide, and as a parent who has survived their child. Only a parent who has survived their child can know the pain that can cause one to endure, hopefully the staff of love and logic has not known that suffering. I believe they mean well but this is a life and death extreme situation thousands of people may face everyday.

In that situation, I would advise parents to emphasize the LOVE and take their child to the nearest emergency room for immediate assessment not offer that suicide is a choice that would hurt them the most. Why take chances that a suicidal person would interpret that as non-caring? I work with suicidal adolescents regularly and I am quite shocked by this statement.

I believe only a person who has never lost a child would make such a callous statement and this is something that Love and Logic could correct in their next edition lest some parent make the tragic mistake of saying that to their child who is crying out for lifesaving LOVE.

Sincerely,

My name, MS, PLPC
My email