Really traumatic time for my intact kids

[moonglowmama]

At bedtime last night, my little girl (5) said she had seen a boys penis and it looked like part of it was chopped off or something. She was confused and was looking for a reason. Her older brother (8) is intact and my dh is circ'd and those are the only 2 penises I could think of. I asked whose penis she had seen, and she said her cousin's (who's 5 months), as her aunt was bathing him a few weeks ago. I was devastated. When her aunt was pregnant and found out they were having a boy I had gently laid some groundwork for intact info, but they said they were circing him and that was that.

So, last night I said, "yes, well, part of his penis was cut off," and they both immediately started weeping deeply for their cousin. They were crying for 20 minutes and all I could do was console them. Since I'm due in a few months, and we don't know the gender, my dd was panicked all of a sudden that we might do the same to our baby. I reassured her strongly that no, in our family we don't cut off any parts of babies.

This was so difficult, in so many ways. I totally understand their grief, as I experienced the same thing when I learned they were going to circ, but I have since put it into some part of brain that just doesn't really deal with the reality so that I can get along with them and love them the same. And I hate that my little girl has to know about something so horrific at a young age. But, we don't lie to them; I've always thought that if they ask the question, they're ready for the answer, without going overboard.

I guess I'm looking for support and advice from some of you who have already had to deal with this. The only other time we've dealt with it was in relation to my dh. Ds was wanting to know why their penises were different, so we gave a list, like dad has hair, and you will when you get older, dad was circ'd but we knew better than to do that with you, and different people look different. I think it was so traumatic for them because they have such great love for their cousin, that they hate to know anything bad happening to him, and it really hit my ds, because as a boy it was horrible for him to think of what that must have been like for his cousin.

Knowing my kids, I think they'll bring it up again to work through it. What things can I say that are true, but will also be consoling? I did say that it doesn't change how much we love them, or how special they are to us.

Feeling a little lost. Thanks for helping.

[rozzie'sma]

My daughter was the same way when she found out about her cousin being circ'd. She cried, she told me it was wrong, I agreed and validated her feelings. She even called her aunt out on it and wanted to know why she did it. Funny thing was when the question came from a four year old my sister was speechless. The main thing was assuring her that her little brother is and will stay intact and that I would never let anyone cut off part of her or her brother. There was no magic thing to fix her sorrow, it has just healed on it's own.

[zinemama]

Huh. I don't think my kids have ever wept for 20 minutes about another person, ever. When I explained (at similar ages) why one of them looks different from his brother in that department, the reaction was, "Oh! And what's for dessert tonight?" Did you perhaps get very emotional yourself at the time and they picked up on that? Or are these kids extremely sensitive about everything?

I'm also not really clear on why you would need to reassure your kids that they are special and loved when it was their cousin who was circed? To be honest, I'm also very surprised that a 5yo noticed a circed penis and used the words "chopped off" in reference to it. Are you sure she hadn't heard you discussing circ with another adult? In my experience, kids tend not to notice differences till they are older and even then simply wonder why the difference exists - without assuming that something necessarily happened to cause it.

[proudmomof4]

Well, if she was used to the sight of an intact boy (even though she probably didn't pay "close attention" to her brother's penis) she might have been shocked.
I still remember my own reaction when I changed a diaper on a friend's baby - I was 30y at the time and had never seen a circumsized penis before (I'm German and we "don't do circumcision").

[Belle]

Originally Posted by zinemama

Huh. I don't think my kids have ever wept for 20 minutes about another person, ever. When I explained (at similar ages) why one of them looks different from his brother in that department, the reaction was, "Oh! And what's for dessert tonight?" Did you perhaps get very emotional yourself at the time and they picked up on that? Or are these kids extremely sensitive about everything?

Since the OP is pregnant I think her kids are worried that this will happen to their sibling if he happens to be a brother. Not just that their cousin was cut.

My own daughter was inconsolable when she saw me watching a circ video while I was pregnant with Dd2. (we didn't know her gender) I assured her mommy and daddy wouldn't let anything happen to her sibling. When I inadvertantly mentioned that my mother was trying to talk us into circing our baby she grew very angry and wanted to call her grandmother right then and there and yell at her. She was 3 at the time.

[QueenOfTheMeadow]

I've never had to address the extreme reaction from my boys, even though they know that their cousins are all circumcised. Also the only question they ever asked dh was why did he have hair down there.

As far as loving them, I'm sure they know that! I think that telling them that you love their cousin with or without his foreskin makes more sense. I suspect, even though I'm sure you haven't meant to, that they may have picked up on some of your emotional responses to this. Stay open, answer their questions, remain age appropriate, and try to let them feel the emotions without leading them.

[Freud]

I would have a very direct conversation with your son and assure him that HE will not be circumcised. This may seem obvious, but children have wild imaginations and inherently fear bodily harm. The same conversation would probably be very helpful for your daughter as well.

I'm so sorry they're going through this.

[mymary]

oops

[AbbieB]

My DD, at the age of 5, was aware that her little brother's penis looked different than her dad's. At first she noticed the hair, then later the foreskin or lack of it. I gently explained that when Daddy was a baby people in our culture thought it was healthy to cut the foreskin off but that people have started to changed there mind about that idea. She was a little freaked out by it but I assured her that it was done in the hospital by a doctor.

That was all that needed to be said to reassure her that Grandma did not just take a pair of scissors and do it and that her brother would not have it done, or any future brothers. I did not feel that it was necessary to go into all of the gory details.

Since then we have talked about circumcision in the context of religion, the fact that it is still done, that most of the world does not do it, and some of the reasons why our family does not do it (mostly because it's an important part of DS's body.) She is aware that I personally find it wrong (because it's DS's penis, his foreskin is an functioning important part of his body, and I have no right to alter his body like that). As she gets older I'm sure we will have conversations that go into more detail about it (specifically how the foreskin works and what exactly is done during a circumcision), because it's important for her to know, but at 6 I think the reality is just too disturbing.

If my sister circumcises her son, which is a distinct possibility , I will be really sick about it. I will try to frame it as a choice uncle and aunt made because they believed the recommendation of their doctor and unfortunately many doctors still believe that circumcision is necessary for many incorrect reasons. And then we would discuss those incorrect reasons along with the correct information. I think it's important to not frame my sister as an evil baby mutilator and more as an unfortunate victim of misinformation. If my kids are sad or upset I would validate their feeling, let them know I feel that way too, and discuss.

I'm not sure if I answered the OP's question, but I hope I helped by sharing how we handle the topic and how we plan to handle future questions.

[PuppyFluffer]

The damage of circumcision ripples out far and wide. It certainly makes my heart heavy.
I am sorry that children of any age have to confront this reality.

[Greg B]

"...dad was circ'd but we knew better than to do that with you, and different people look different..."

You have the key in how to handle it in what you said, I think. We do the best we can. We make the best decisions we are capable of making. Some think circumcision is the best decision. Some do not. And some change their thinking over time.

Their cousins have caring parents, who made the best decision they were capable of making at the time.

Does more need to be said?

Regards

[PuppyFluffer]

I think more does need to be said when you have a child who is reacting strongly to the idea of cutting something off of a baby. Acknowledging their shock over it is important.

If a child isn't shocked and upset, then I think you can cruise along with the "when you know better...." line.

[moonglowmama]

[QUOTE=moonglowmama;14799766] I did say that it doesn't change how much we love them, or how special they are to us.
/QUOTE]

When I said this, I was referring to their Aunt/Uncle/Cousin. As in, our family still loves their family the same. Sorry for the confusion.

Originally Posted by zinemama

Did you perhaps get very emotional yourself at the time and they picked up on that? Or are these kids extremely sensitive about everything?

I'm also very surprised that a 5yo noticed a circed penis and used the words "chopped off" in reference to it. Are you sure she hadn't heard you discussing circ with another adult? In my experience, kids tend not to notice differences till they are older and even then simply wonder why the difference exists - without assuming that something necessarily happened to cause it.

Actually, I was very unemotional about it, just keeping to the fact of it and helping them with their emotions. Their crying was spontaneous and just seemed to well up from their love for their cousin, as well as some fear perhaps that it would happen to our new baby (my son knows this without a doubt, but daughter is processing everything about how life will be with a baby).

It doesn't surprise me that she used the words "chopped off" because not only are they both very mature but also very articulate. And when she used it, she was a little unsure if it was the best word, but was trying to describe what she saw in a way that I would know what she was talking about.

And although we are very passionate about circumcision, it is something we never discuss in front of the kids. They have heard me discussing the benefits of keeping a baby intact with a friend who was pregnant at the time, but I don't even talk about it on the phone when they're around. Along the same lines, they don't watch movies that have any fighting, etc. because they are sensitive to any kind of violence. Apart from that, they are normal kids.

Originally Posted by QueenOfTheMeadow

Stay open, answer their questions, remain age appropriate, and try to let them feel the emotions without leading them.

This is what I always try for, especially letting them have their own feelings without inserting my own. We have always let them have their feelings openly, so they feel really comfortable discussing everything with us. I value that a lot, and I'm glad she knew she could talk to me about her questions about it. I just really wish it wasn't in their world.

I appreciate everyone's support. Some days parenting is just hard.

[Marylizah]

My 3 year old son came across a book at the Dr's office describing circumcision back in October. I wasn't with him, DH had taken him, so I don't really know what the book was (an explanation? a pamphlet? We're in France where circ is NOT the norm, so I was/am just really puzzled.)

Anyway, it totally terrified DS. I was out of the country and when we Skyped that night he told me, "Mama, I saw a book and this boy's penis was CUT OFF!" He was horrified and upset. We both reassured him that while some people do that, we do not.

I'm expecting a baby in a few weeks. We don't know the sex, but yesterday DS asked me if we were going to cut the baby's penis off. I told him that we would never do that, that we don't think it's necessary or a good idea.

What's funny is that he's never noticed that DH is circ'ed. Maybe because DH is different in many ways! But that book sure made a big impression on him. So, yeah, young kids can notice and be upset by things like this.

[tutucrazy]

I think that if you have children who can identify injustice and pain and feel deep empathy toward victims of these injustices, then you are doing a H#$% of a job raising your kids! Our children are the future. Teaching them to be empathetic, especially in the face of this profound, yet widely-accepted, violation is how we will bring peace to our world. This story is very touching. You have some very compassionate intactivist in bloom.

[Quirky]

Originally Posted by tutucrazy

I think that if you have children who can identify injustice and pain and feel deep empathy toward victims of these injustices, then you are doing a H#$% of a job raising your kids! Our children are the future. Teaching them to be empathetic, especially in the face of this profound, yet widely-accepted violation, is how we will bring peace to our world. This story is very touching. You have some very compassionate intactivist in bloom.

ITA.

[moonglowmama]

Wow, thanks so much Quirky and tutucrazy. Feels nice to be validated in such an important area of parenting.