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Should I just keep pumping? - Page 2

post #21 of 46
Thread Starter 
I'd never heard of that before but I'll give it a try. He is very calm and at home curled up on my chest. Thanks for the idea.
post #22 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryen View Post
Should I keep trying and if he refuses and becomes hysterical offer him the formula or should I only offer the breast and eventually he'll be hungry enough to eat?
No lactation consultant will tell you to starve a baby to the breast. Babies can't learn to breastfeed well if they're not getting enough to eat. You really need to eliminate the bottles and supplement at the breast with a Lact-Aid or Medela SNS. You can order them online or get a Medela SNS from a LC or some drug stores.
Did you check out bfar.org? There's lots of info there.
post #23 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryen View Post
I laid in bed with him next to me and he drank lazily from the left one but when I offered him the right one he was irrate.
My DS used to do this too. I think he just preferred eating a certain way. I couldn't hardly get him to even latch on the right! The ONLY way he would nurse on righty for about 4 months was in a football hold. So try different things!

Also, if you have a friend in the medical field ask them to get you some small tubing, it and a bottle with the tube shoved in the nipple hole will get you through (if you want to try and supplement at the breast) until you can find a lact-aid. I wish I would have known this. I had to supplement and we had issues with nipple confusion. You could tell, his latch was difficult at the breast, and you could see the little gears turning like "why are all these boobies different!"
post #24 of 46
Darryen,

DO NOT STRESS OUT YET. I want to share my story with the hope that it will comfort you and strengthen your resolve!

DD refused to eat for 24 hours after she was born. She wanted to sleep! But the nurses wouldn't have it, so that combined with no wet diapers landed her in the NICU. While there she still refused to eat, and ended up with a tube up her nose being pumped full of formula. She finally decided to eat after a 3 week stay.

I had an augmentation on one side, and the augmented breast only made 1/2 as much milk as the un-augmented one initially. I pumped every 3 hours during the day and every 4 hours at night--so that was, ah, about 8 times a day. My milk came in on day FIVE.

Here's the good news: Aubrey didn't latch until she was more than three weeks old. She didn't care if she got formula. What we did was lay down in the bed (both on our sides) when she wasn't too too hungry, and let her try to latch on her own. It took two tries. We both just needed to relax. She was EBF thereafter.

So anyway, the point is, you're doing great. Keep offering him the breast in different ways and keep supplementing as needed to keep him full. Keep pumping! The milk is there, it just takes a little while for your body to figure it out sometimes. Especially with augmentations.

Good luck and congrats on your new little man!
post #25 of 46
Thread Starter 
I'll ask about the tubing when I go in on Monday. I'm afriad he already has nipple confusion but I def. don't want to make it worse. I am going to try that biological nurturing tonight when he's had something to eat and isn't starving. I'll let you all know how it goes. Thanks for the advice and stories. Your support is helping my husband and I so much.
post #26 of 46
I think that it is great that you are doing so much to try to establish your supply and get breastfeeding to work. I exclusively pumped for 5 months (7-8x/day) and then pumped and supplemented through 8 months, and then finally gave up pumping and switched to 100% formula. It was a LOT of work, and in retrospect I wish that I had done a few things differently to get my DD latched on to begin with.

I worked with ~7-8 different LC's (a mix of hospital, clinic, and home visits), and all DD ever did was scream at the breast. She was a VERY sensitive baby, and I think that my experience with the LC's defintiely complicated our situation because she was traumatized each time. She was very sensitive to bright lights and sounds, and would usually start screaming at the point where the LC decided to do the "pre-feeding" weigh, before we even got started with the latching. Most of them seemed to think that it was just a matter of technique.. once the baby was in the right position and you had enough milk (which I luckily did), she would instinctively latch. In retrospect, I don't think that my "technique" was the problem at all. I think that she just needed more time and space to practice before we started supplementing with an artificial nipple (which just complicated things further).

Anyway, I'm sure LC's are helpful in many cases, but in my particular case I feel that if I had just forgone the LC visits and spent MUCH more time in a quiet dark room having skin-to-skin contact and allowing her to slowly find the nipple on her own (as the PP recommended) we might have had a better shot. There are a few good videos online about how this is done, but you basically just lay the baby in the center of your chest and let him slowly work his way down, guiding very gently as needed.

I would also recommend syringe feeding or SNS feeding to avoid nipple confusion, though I realize that this is a ton of work when you are largely supplementing. There are few things more depressing than having your baby scream at your breast, so I feel your pain. I wish you the best of luck.. and unfortunately know way too much about pumping if you ever need advice in that area.
post #27 of 46
Thread Starter 
I tried letting him root around this morning but he got hysterical so we had to stop. I can't feed him without crying now. But I refuse to give up. I have DDD breasts so it was kinda hard. I had to hold my breast and he kinda fell off my chest getting to it. We'll keep working on it.
post #28 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryen View Post
I have read that pumping several times a day will keep the milk coming and bring it in more. I have been pumping at night because its convenient but read that its liable to produce the least amount of milk so I tried to pump this morning. My breasts weren't very full but I tried anyways and got an oz from each breast. At night I was getting 2 oz per breast. Then I pumped again around 3 today when I got home from shopping and barely got an oz combined! Should I keep pumping every few hours even if I'm not getting much or should I wait until my breasts begin to feel hard? I'm confused.
If you want production up the fastest, you need to put baby back on the boob. the pump is, imo, dreadful - everybody i personally know (iow, not online) has ended up drying up once they brought in the pump.
In order to get more information you can go through the link: http://besthealthcare.blog.com
post #29 of 46
I'm so sorry to hear that you're still having trouble latching your baby on. I would also break down in tears trying to get my LO latched.. she would get hysterical and start screaming in a matter of seconds, and I dreaded every time that we "practiced" because every time she got upset I would also start crying.

Some things that were more successful for us were sneaking the breast in to her mouth when she was just waking up (eyes still closed). Sometimes she would start sucking reflexively that way, and we'd get a little "practice" before she woke up and figured out what was going on (at which point she would usually freak out). If she was wide awake and alert, she usually got too overwhelmed by everything too quickly. HTH -
post #30 of 46
Thread Starter 
Tonight I tried all kinds of things and after an hour of him screaming, me crying, praying and pleading with him, and swaddling him, we found a position and he drank for a while. I think he is still hungry though. I fed him until he stopped and fell asleep but now he is in his bouncy chair (he normally sleeps well in it) and is crying again so I think we may need to try again. I hope this gets easier. He ripped my heart out tonight with the screaming. I felt like such a failure. Its such a horrible feeling.

Oh and when I rub him chin/cheek area to make him suck he doesn't. Any other reflex areas to try? Touching/squeezing his shoulder makes him wake up but not eat... usually just pisses him off.
post #31 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryen View Post
Oh and when I rub him chin/cheek area to make him suck he doesn't. Any other reflex areas to try? Touching/squeezing his shoulder makes him wake up but not eat... usually just pisses him off.
Try to squeeze your breast when he is latched on (breast compression) to supply a squirt or milk. That usually results in more sucking/swallowing.

How are his diapers? Is he having 6 heavy wets in 24 hours?

Have you been able to see an LC or comeone from LLL?
post #32 of 46
Were you able to get a supplemental nursing system? It will solve the problem of your babe refusing the breast because he's frustrated by the slow flow compared to bottles.
Was his weight OK at the doc's the other day?
Are you pumping at least 8 times a day to keep your supply going until you get him back to the breast? Nursing works by supply and demand - if there's no demand there will soon be no supply.
I hope you're doing well, mama
post #33 of 46
Thread Starter 
He only BF twice last night so I won't be able to judge his diapers for another day or so. I'm going to try to offer only the breast today and see how it goes. He screamed again this morning even though I know he has to be hungry but he's fallen back asleep so I'll try again when he wakes up. This is so difficult. I haven't been able to see a LC yet but I plan on calling tomorrow if we can't get this down today. The one in the hospital didn't help much but maybe a different one would be able to.
post #34 of 46
If he's too hungry to nurse, you need to feed him pumped milk another way, then offer the breast a little while later, when he's not starving. Super hungry babies are just too upset to learn something new, and may not have the strength to nurse properly.

It's best not to offer bottles at all, to avoid nipple confusion. But, if bottles are all you have available right now, it might be best to feed the baby in a way you KNOW he'll eat, so you can try the breast again in an hour or so.

Then keep offering the breast every hour or two during the day, BEFORE he's too hungry to nurse.
post #35 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryen View Post
He only BF twice last night so I won't be able to judge his diapers for another day or so. I'm going to try to offer only the breast today and see how it goes. He screamed again this morning even though I know he has to be hungry but he's fallen back asleep so I'll try again when he wakes up. This is so difficult. I haven't been able to see a LC yet but I plan on calling tomorrow if we can't get this down today. The one in the hospital didn't help much but maybe a different one would be able to.
Do not try to stop supplementing cold turkey. You said you were getting 5-6 oz a day exclusively pumping. It will take time to build up a full milk supply and many women who have had breast surgery will always need to supplement - on top of pumping and using galactogogues such as domperidone.
You could try this method - http://www.lowmilksupply.org/finishatthebreast.shtml
Don't assume he's getting enough to eat because he's sleepy. Some babies are "happy to starve" - mine was - or are tired because they're not getting enough to eat.
You REALLY need to see a LC tomorrow. You can definitely do all your feeding at the breast if you ask her about a SNS.
post #36 of 46
Thread Starter 
Well we are able to suck from the breast without screaming now but he isn't really eating. He'll suck lazily for about 5-10 mins and fall asleep. I am going to keep at it but I have a feeling its going to be a comfort thing more than nutrition. At least I know he is getting some benefit and maybe it'll get better and he will take a whole meal at the breast sometime.
post #37 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryen View Post
At least I know he is getting some benefit and maybe it'll get better and he will take a whole meal at the breast sometime.
If you use a SNS or Lact-Aid he'll be able to get ALL his meals at the breast - even if some of what he eats is formula.
I'm glad things are getting better
post #38 of 46
Thread Starter 
Yeah I'm working on getting a supplement system. He did really well this morning too. Thanks for all your support.
post #39 of 46
Thread Starter 
Couple quick questions:

He'll take breastmilk from a bottle and is no longer screaming at the breast even though he isn't particularly liking the breast. Does that mean we do not have an allergy problem? I have horrible allergies and the Dr said no solids until after 6 months to be safe but could the bfing be bothering him if he will take it from the bottle?

Second, we don't warm his bottles since he takes them without warming without fussing. Do you think he doesn't like the breast milk coming out warm? Should we warm his supplement? I am buying the SNS tonight and will begin using it exclusively and getting rid of the bottles.

Third, hrm... I forgot my third question. Maybe it will come to me later.

He is doing better. He will take the breast but he plays more than eats. He'll suck a little and I know he is getting those good nutrients but he isn't eating enough from the breast to get all his nutrition. I am hoping I can use the SNS on a normal flow and then slow it down bit by bit until he'll take the breast without the formula. I am fairly certain I am making enough milk to feed him, he just won't suck for it. Any tips you all have for the SNS? I plan to tape them in place with the tape the hospital gave us to cover up DH's cast so it won't pull at my skin so badly when I take it off.
post #40 of 46
Hi Darryen,
I'm glad to hear you're getting a SNS. Hang in there when you're learning - it will get easier. Are you getting a Medela SNS or a Lact-Aid? If it's the Medela keep in mind that the height of the bottle is important to get it to flow properly.
I found that I didn't need to use the tape (I cupped my breast with my fingers and used the thumb to hold the tube in place) but my SIL used band-aids and just threaded the tube through the non-sticky part.
I don't think allergies are an issue if he's taking the bottles OK.
You can warm the supplement if you want but I have never bothered.
It would be great if you could gradually decrease the supplement - just keep an eye on your little one's weight gain. Average for BF babies up to four months old is 5-7 oz a week. http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns...alculator.html You can often rent baby scales inexpensively or there may be a well-baby drop in near you. I found that constant reassurance that my son was growing and gaining really helped me start to relax and enjoy my baby after a rough start.
Good luck!
Please don't hesitate to come back with any SNS questions. There are lots of mamas here who can help you troubleshoot.
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