Dr Sears and EC - what gives?

[JessieBird]

So I'm kind of surprised that Dr Sears isn't a proponent of EC (at least not that I've come across). Not even "EC-light." The Baby Book even lists reasons why to delay potty learning. I have a new version of the book but it feels behind the times in some ways, expecially since it seems to me that natural early pottying approaches are gaining in acceptance. Has anyone heard him or Martha discuss EC?

[luvmybaby333]

[physmom]

I just posted something similar as in questioning why people are seem to be for child-led parenting are so against early potty training. I just don't get why people say it's pushing and potty training should be delayed. It makes no sense to me whatsoever especially when DD WANTS to do EC!!! Sorry for my

[sapphire_chan]

Sears is not the most AP/NFL writer out there, he's the most accessible. They writer knowing that the book's going to be read by a wide wide audience. Including people who would take a suggestion to hold a baby over a potty occasionally as an indication that babies *should* be out of diapers by a year.

A lot of child abuse comes from people who expect kids to do stuff before they're ready. Accidents while potty learning are a major trigger for physical violence. Particularly if the parent thinks the kid is "old enough to know better" and is doing it "on purpose to shame me".

While kids can and do potty learn at 18 months, it's a bad bad idea to encourage everyone to think that they *must* do so.


As for the people who say it's pushing, the kindest explanation is that for their LOs it would be pushing. It's a pity if they can't recognize that their reality isn't the only way things can be.

[hrsmom]

My ideas on this come from my own kiddo, who is now 20 months. I can definitely see reasons for discouraging pushing a child into potty training. If I hadn't done EC and for whatever reason decided to potty train my girl right now, it would be awful. (We have enough fun trying to leave the park when it's dark but she's not done playing, or convincing her to put on a jacket, or walk on the sidewalk when she just doesn't want to. Can't imagine trying to actually train her to do ANYTHING at this point.) (She learns plenty, and it's awesome to watch, but training, not.) So delaying potty training of some "diaper trained" babies makes some sense to me.

Of course EC is not pushing a child into something they don't want to do.

[Ruthla]

Dr. Sears is writing from his own experiences, both as a father and as a pediatrician. He doesn't have any personal experience with EC. He didn't use it in his own family, and he probably didn't encounter any ECers in his practice.

I'm quite certain that he's retired now, and has been for a while- certainly before the EC movement became so popular. I suspect that, had he known even a handful of ECers, he would have briefly mentioned it (as in "some babies are ready in infancy, but most aren't ready until....") I think he would have at least put it out there as a viable alternative if he'd known about it, even if he didn't know enough about it to explain how to do so.

I personally think that kids have certain "windows" in which they're able to learn toileting. EC seems to catch kids in an early window, before most modern parents even think to look for readiness. By toddlerhood, many kids are in a strong "negative" phase when they're just not receptive to being told what to do. Then some preschoolers have a strong need for familiar routines and continuity. If you miss one window, you need to wait for the next one, or else toilet learning becomes an exercise in frustration.

[physmom]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

I personally think that kids have certain "windows" in which they're able to learn toileting. EC seems to catch kids in an early window, before most modern parents even think to look for readiness. By toddlerhood, many kids are in a strong "negative" phase when they're just not receptive to being told what to do. Then some preschoolers have a strong need for familiar routines and continuity. If you miss one window, you need to wait for the next one, or else toilet learning becomes an exercise in frustration.

My best friend is struggling potty training her son and I really think it's just that she hasn't found the right window yet. We got really lucky with DD and I'm sooo happy that I had heard about EC before so I had some inkling of what to do when she showed signs of readiness!

[Collinsky]

Originally Posted by sapphire_chan

A lot of child abuse comes from people who expect kids to do stuff before they're ready. Accidents while potty learning are a major trigger for physical violence. Particularly if the parent thinks the kid is "old enough to know better" and is doing it "on purpose to shame me".

While kids can and do potty learn at 18 months, it's a bad bad idea to encourage everyone to think that they *must* do so.

That's what I was going to say -- in fact most instances of fatal child abuse, last I heard, are potty learning related. So there is a HUGE impetus for drs and others who educate parents to drive home the idea of waiting until the child is fully, 100% ready*. Dr Sears speaks to a mainstream audience, so he's talking to people who may believe that it is the parent's job to "make sure" their child is out of diapers - the default in this culture - by a specific, arbitrary age, or those who may be influenced by those around them that hold that belief just from lack of other perspectives. It's very sad, how much punishment and coercion get wrapped up in toilet training.

*By ready, I mean physically, emotionally, and cognitively ready to potty learn after being in diapers since infancy.

[hrsmom]

Originally Posted by Collinsky

That's what I was going to say -- in fact most instances of fatal child abuse, last I heard, are potty learning related. So there is a HUGE impetus for drs and others who educate parents to drive home the idea of waiting until the child is fully, 100% ready*. Dr Sears speaks to a mainstream audience, so he's talking to people who may believe that it is the parent's job to "make sure" their child is out of diapers - the default in this culture - by a specific, arbitrary age, or those who may be influenced by those around them that hold that belief just from lack of other perspectives. It's very sad, how much punishment and coercion get wrapped up in toilet training.

*By ready, I mean physically, emotionally, and cognitively ready to potty learn after being in diapers since infancy.

That's horrible!!!

And your definition here of "ready" is perfect.

[georgiamum]

dr sears gives a positive quote on the back cover of "Infant Potty Training" by Laurie Boucke

[Laurie Boucke]

Thanks for mentioning this, Georgiamum. Here are the endorsement quotes supplied by both Dr. William Sears (Sr. & Jr.) at the front of "Infant Potty Training: A Gentle and Primeval Method Adapted to Modern Living":

Quote by Dr. William Sears, pediatrician (November 2000)
“I found your book to be very helpful. Besides helping an infant achieve early potty training, the method in this book helps parents learn to read their baby’s body language better. I wish you the best on your book!”

Quote by Dr. William Sears, Jr., pediatrician (July 2001)
“Infant Potty Training is a very interesting approach, and I do agree that it fits well with AP.... I do applaud your approach.”

I've always felt that ec/ipt is a Baby B (bladder and bowel control). It has been for centuries in many countries, especially in Asia and Africa.

Several points made in this thread explain why the writings by the Sears do not include ec -- especially what Sapphire & Ruthla said. But at least the Sears are positive and encouraging about it, unlike some other pediatricians.

Cheers,

Laurie

[zoebird]

it saddens me how many people do potty train their children with a lot of shaming and negativity.

i was pottying hawk at our local coffee shop when a woman and her 3-4 yr old boy popped out of the other stall. there are two stalls--one handicapped accessable which also has the changing table and most parents use this one too, and a very narrow second stall.

because hawk was urgent in his signal, i opted to not wait for the larger stall, and simply kept the door of the smaller stall open because that's the only way that i could potty him in there. he was about 6-7 mon at the time.

i heard the mother and her son in there and she was quite negative with him, and he was resisting. eventually, they come out, and she sees me peacefully pottying hawk. she stopped short and asked "is that baby using potty?" and i said "yes." and then she turns to her son and shames: "even little babies can use potty! why can't you?"

i grant you, it's far, far short of violence and fatal violence against children (god that makes me cry just thinking about it), but it's still so unhappy.

she was also pregnant at the time, and when i came out with hawk, she asked me about PTing and about what i was doing with hawk. i told her about EC and gave her a list of resources, books, even our EC meeting.

and then i encouraged her to back off about potty learning. i told her that boys grow uniquely (they hvae less holding power than girls, particularly during and right after a growth spurt), and that she can gently introduce him to potty and maybe he goes, maybe he doesn't, maybe there's a miss and it's no big deal. . .and to do that for a year, rather than expecting him to get it in a day or two (a la dr phil!). eventually, i told her, he will be trained. (and i also explained about neurological pathways).

later, i got an email from her that they were part time ECing the baby and part time ECing their elder son, and that it was working out so well. for her, the peace of my experience is what drew her in. hawk was (and is) so happy and peaceful about potty and everything, and so was i. she came to a couple of meetings too, and met other mamas doing it. she was encouraged. her elder son eventually became potty trained (i think it took a couple of months), and her little one is full time ECed now because she doesn't have to think about th elder child.

it's nice to know that we can make a difference.

anyway, i share for nothing. i was justs reminded.

also, our doctor is SUPER crunchy, and i'm his first client in 25 yrs who ECs. of course, i'm no longer his only. there are about 5-6 of us. and, they all have met me and that's how they both heard about EC or the doctor or both. LOL

he said that since we started, there are more families home birthing, Ecing, and breastfeeding in his practice than there have been in the last decade. and he is a very crunchy doctor, so it's interesting what he sees.

he was afraid of but supportive of UC even. he's that awesome.