Bone and broth management

[Teenytoona]

Ok, so how do you do it? For a while there I was attempting to roast a chicken once a week and make broth from it. Well, I got out of that habit once and ended up stocking up far more chicken bones over the course of a month, and finally made broth. Well, that was my first broth that ever gelled. So obviously I need to use more bones in my broths. Well, we don't always eat enough chicken, or we do and the kids will throw away the bones, or I will just be lazy and not collect them, or whatnot.

Now, my question is for those who make and use broth regularly (for instance every week), how do you manage to produce that many bones weekly (without the family being sick of chicken)? If I made broth as often as we had enough bones, it would be monthly, sometimes twice a month, and I'd go through it far faster than I'd be able to make it.

I'd love to drink or use broth everyday, but it looks like it's not within my range of possibilities. Do any of you really manage to do so?

[laohaire]

I am not an expert. I've prepared exactly one chicken so far in my life (very recently). But that one chicken I got a gallon of broth from, and it definitely gelled (yum).

Did you do the whole carcass? I got as much meat off as I could but there was still a bit of meat hanging off the bones.

I did use a free range chicken, I don't know if they are different.

I made the broth the same night as the chicken... I made the chicken, we ate dinner, we carved up the rest and put it in the fridge to eat later, and I stuffed the carcass right into the crock pot and put it on low overnight.

Hmm... how LONG are you simmering the bones? I've read from some people who only do it a couple hours, it seems, and I think it really needs to simmer a long time.

[Teenytoona]

Originally Posted by laohaire

I am not an expert. I've prepared exactly one chicken so far in my life (very recently). But that one chicken I got a gallon of broth from, and it definitely gelled (yum).

Did you do the whole carcass? I got as much meat off as I could but there was still a bit of meat hanging off the bones.

I did use a free range chicken, I don't know if they are different.

I made the broth the same night as the chicken... I made the chicken, we ate dinner, we carved up the rest and put it in the fridge to eat later, and I stuffed the carcass right into the crock pot and put it on low overnight.

Hmm... how LONG are you simmering the bones? I've read from some people who only do it a couple hours, it seems, and I think it really needs to simmer a long time.

Maybe I use small chickens? I get the roughly 3 lb ones. I get locally farmed ones at the grocery store who are not free-range (in the grass getting grubs and whatnot), but are labled "free-range" (able to move around and given feed) which is the best my budget can allow right now. We usually eat the whole chicken in one meal, and then I'll either freeze the bones and carcass til I can get to them, or crock them right away. I usually go 20 hours or so with them in the crock pot.

Maybe I need to get bigger chickens, like a 5-6 lber.

[laohaire]

I dunno. Ours was a 4 pounder. I would think the difference of a pound of meat wouldn't be that significant in the gellng department since the bones are probably very similar in mass.

Anyway, I'm surprised I'm the only one who has answered so far Let's see what the other folks say. TFers know all about bone broth, right???

[tanyalynn]

When I was making a lot of stock (about 1.5 gallons per week), I sought out bones (cheap, conventional). Mostly beef, that was what I could get, an Asian store carried them cheapest, I think most people bought them for pho.

I've also bumped up our gelatin consumption (working on digestive issues for DD and DH) by buying split pigs' feet and putting them into the slow cooker with a roast (sometimes I simmer the split pigs' foot in some water for a couple hours first, and use that as a liquid for the slow cooker).

We also don't have enough bones from regular consumption to make as much stock as I'd like. Our budget only includes conventional meats right now, which is a bummer, but the one good part is that I've started buying drumsticks to cook up for portable lunches for us (gfcf, low-grain, haven't mastered no grain yet), and so now we have bones from the drumsticks. Clearly not a whole-chicken, high-quality chicken solution, but for our situation, it works.

[onetrumpeter]

Originally Posted by laohaire

I did use a free range chicken, I don't know if they are different.

Teeny, I'm empathizing w/ you. I want more/better quality broth, but either we're not eating enough boned meat (probably true - we're slowly transitioning here from BSCbreast and filets, etc - though I can't yet even *imagine* working from a WHOLE FISH! lol) OR our chickens aren't of good enough quality. I'm getting liquidy, barely gelling broth.

I did read in NT that supposedly a factory farmed bird will not yield as good of a broth. Makes sense. Now to get the good quality chickens! But hopefully some in the groceyr store will actually yield decent broth. I have also made good, gelling broth, but it was when I used several carcasses to the same quantity of water.

I'm on a broth kick - great to read all these broth related posts

[onetrumpeter]

Originally Posted by onetrumpeter

I'm on a broth kick - great to read all these broth related posts

I guess it IS winter - lol - most of us probably are on a broth kick!

[blueridgewoman]

I generally use bones and then supplement with necks and backs. During three seasons of the year, I get them from Polyface Farms, but this time of year, after my stockpile from Polyface runs out, I have to use Whole Foods chicken backs.

I also sort of diversify and occasionally buy duck when its on sale at the grocery store (we get "free range"- note the quotes- Culver ducks), so at least provides some interest when everyone is tired of chicken.

[rhiandmoi]

FWIW, I have had worse stock results using the carcass from an expensive free range chicken vs. my Costco rotisserie chickens. I think the biggest "secret" is to throw in all the skin and simmer as low as possible. I also get the best results if I used a roasted or rotisserie carcass that is picked pretty clean with all the joints pulled apart. And definitely throw in all fat that squishes loose.

Usually what I do is get a Costco chicken, pick off the meat and then throw the carcass in the crock pot.

[tanyalynn]

Cooking time seems to be another variable in whether a stock gels. Shorter simmer times seem to gel better, all other things being held equal. The GAPS diet advocates short simmer times to maximize gelatin--it's about healing the gut, so that's their focus, only around 4, maybe 6 hours, for chicken, and maybe a bit longer for beef.

[ASusan]

You can also supplement with chicken feet. I get the feet inexpensively from our local farmer. A couple of feet really help with gelling.

[onetrumpeter]

Originally Posted by TanyaLopez

Cooking time seems to be another variable in whether a stock gels. Shorter simmer times seem to gel better, all other things being held equal. The GAPS diet advocates short simmer times to maximize gelatin--it's about healing the gut, so that's their focus, only around 4, maybe 6 hours, for chicken, and maybe a bit longer for beef.

fascinating. I just assume that longer simmer=more derived from the bones, and thus a better gel, but it hasn't really worked out for me that way yet, lol. so maybe LESS simmer time? hmmm... wonder how much other stuff I get out of the bones by simmering for a longer time? which do I want? more gelling? more minerals, etc. out of the bones? thanks!

[Teenytoona]

Originally Posted by laohaire

I dunno. Ours was a 4 pounder. I would think the difference of a pound of meat wouldn't be that significant in the gellng department since the bones are probably very similar in mass.

Anyway, I'm surprised I'm the only one who has answered so far Let's see what the other folks say. TFers know all about bone broth, right???

Hmmm. I just figured maybe I needed more bones. ANd I figured bigger chicken equals more bones.

Originally Posted by onetrumpeter

Teeny, I'm empathizing w/ you. I want more/better quality broth, but either we're not eating enough boned meat (probably true - we're slowly transitioning here from BSCbreast and filets, etc - though I can't yet even *imagine* working from a WHOLE FISH! lol) OR our chickens aren't of good enough quality. I'm getting liquidy, barely gelling broth.

I did read in NT that supposedly a factory farmed bird will not yield as good of a broth. Makes sense. Now to get the good quality chickens! But hopefully some in the groceyr store will actually yield decent broth. I have also made good, gelling broth, but it was when I used several carcasses to the same quantity of water.

I'm on a broth kick - great to read all these broth related posts

I definitely have an in-between sort of chicken, not exactly factory farmed, but not pastured, so for my money (at this point) I'm ok with this for now. The local farm birds are a bit more money than I can afford at one go, but I think maybe soon I will be able to get to a farm and buy some. Would make for a heck of a new shopping experience with the kids, huh?

Originally Posted by blueridgewoman

I generally use bones and then supplement with necks and backs. During three seasons of the year, I get them from Polyface Farms, but this time of year, after my stockpile from Polyface runs out, I have to use Whole Foods chicken backs.

I also sort of diversify and occasionally buy duck when its on sale at the grocery store (we get "free range"- note the quotes- Culver ducks), so at least provides some interest when everyone is tired of chicken.

Ok, so you do supplement. I do notice that my store that sells my "free(-ish) range" chickens also sells the backs for $0.69/lb. That's probably where I should look first. That is until I get to a farm.

Originally Posted by TanyaLopez

Cooking time seems to be another variable in whether a stock gels. Shorter simmer times seem to gel better, all other things being held equal. The GAPS diet advocates short simmer times to maximize gelatin--it's about healing the gut, so that's their focus, only around 4, maybe 6 hours, for chicken, and maybe a bit longer for beef.

Ok, I always thought that you should simmer it longer (12- 24 hours) to get all the minerals.

Originally Posted by ASusan

You can also supplement with chicken feet. I get the feet inexpensively from our local farmer. A couple of feet really help with gelling.

One of these days I will actually haul myself out to a farm to get some chickens. I've never seen these in the grocery store. And frankly, if I'm taking DD (which I usually do, bc I shop on Sundays) I forget about all those things and just get in and out before the tantrums fly. (DD has a short limit, it seems of toleration of being out and about).

Originally Posted by onetrumpeter

fascinating. I just assume that longer simmer=more derived from the bones, and thus a better gel, but it hasn't really worked out for me that way yet, lol. so maybe LESS simmer time? hmmm... wonder how much other stuff I get out of the bones by simmering for a longer time? which do I want? more gelling? more minerals, etc. out of the bones? thanks!

Yeah, I'm wondering too!! I had no idea there was even a lower time possibility.

Where's that popcorn smiley, because I need to sit and watch the wise folks come here and impart their knowledge!

[laohaire]

When you get to the point of shopping at farms, that's fun No tantrums from DD at the farms.. well, maybe sometimes, when it's time to go!!

[Teenytoona]

Originally Posted by laohaire

When you get to the point of shopping at farms, that's fun No tantrums from DD at the farms.. well, maybe sometimes, when it's time to go!!

Yeah, I figured it can be the family outing. We're always trying to think of stuff to do with the kids on the weekend. It's just getting the room in the budget, because I've scoped out all the farms.

But yeah, I can so see the tantrums upon leaving the chickens or cows or piggies behind. LOL.

[ASusan]

I seem to recall a discussion around here about longer (excess of 24-36 hours) = less gelling, because of a break-down of the proteins/geletin?


ETA - our farmer delivers meats to the house every other Saturday. In the summer, she's at the farmer's market. BUT, the Whole Foods is 60+ miles away, so...the good with the bad...