nighttime is killing me

[AngieB]

We as a family are having some major struggles with out nighttime routine. I am at the end of my rope by dinner time and bath and bedtime has become a nightmare of terrible children and an angry yelling mom. I need some ideas for improving things. Here are some of the problems....

Dinner Time

1.) picky picky eaters who complain about the food, don't eat and just make me crazy.

2.) They are all Loud and rude, the 2 year old does things like sitting on the table and bugging the other kids, big kids getting up a wondering around then come back, making a huge mess and not cleaning up after themselves.


After dinner

1.) Fights over who will bath first or if they will bath at all.

2.) Lots of fighting between kids

Bedtime

1.) the two youngest girls will not go to bed at night. They won't stay in their bed. for 2-3 hours a night they get up about every minute or 2 to tell on each other, get a drink, got to the bathroom, run and hide in another room.
2.) If they are not wondering the house they are fighting in their bedroom.

I have 4 kids DD11, DS9, DD5 and DD2 1/2. The 3 girls all have to share a room and the 2 youngest share a bed. Oldest dd needs to read at night and the little girls make it almost impossible. The little girls are not doing well in the same bed but I don't have another option right now.

I feel like I have lost complete control of my household in general and I think if I can get these evening hours back under control it would be a major step in the right direction.

Thanks for reading and for any ideas you want to share.

[alfabetsoup]

I don't really have any bedtime advice for you because our situation is different, but as far as dinner goes, what time are you serving it? I find that 5pm is pretty much optimal for kids--any later than 5:15 in my house is a recipe for disaster. Then you have plenty of time until bedtime as well and nobody feels rushed.

Also, if they are picky/whiny eaters, I would just try to let it go. Maybe the younger ones will eat better at lunch--try feeding them a hot meal then and just do eggs/sandwiches/pizza for dinner, don't even look at if they're eating it or not, start clearing the table when things start to break down, you stay calm throughout because YOU DON'T CARE if they go to bed hungry or not. (sounds harsh, and of course you do care, but if you pretend you don't it's easier for some reason.)

Hope that helps, you sound stressed! Do you have a partner who is helping with dinner/bed at all?

[Jeannettea]

I couldn't read this and not reply! I soooo feel where you're coming from!

This is what I thought of when reading this:

Have the three oldest kids sit down and each make a list of seven meals they LOVE. Include everything - sides and all. Then they exchange lists and cross off everything they HATE on that list, do it again (so each list goes through all their hands). What is left is what you work with - with them - so that you come up with seven meals they will all eat and all like/love. I had to do this w/ dh, oldest ds 15, and youngest dd 9 who were doing the same thing you mentioned (complaining constantly at mealtime). You know what youngest dd will eat, so you can either make her list for her or work around their lists and add in things she likes.

Then you cook those seven meals for dinner on certain nights of the week - M is always dinner #1, T is always dinner #2, and so on. It sounds boring - but it actually makes mealplanning super easy for you and you can make up a standard grocery list and just highlight all the items you'll need for the week in case you don't use up certain ingredients.

For bedtime, I suggest making up a schedule with the kids. Sit down with all four and set up times for when each gets the bathroom, who clears the table of the dirty dishes, etc. Then stick to it. I would also stagger bedtimes if they share a room - put the 5yo to bed in one bed and the 2.5yo in another w/ you, and then move them to the same bed once they are sound asleep. Then let the oldest dd in to read/go to sleep.

I hope this helps you out a little bit! I need to take the table clearing/bathtime schedule advice for myself.......LOL

[lifeguard]

I would try making up a nice, big, colourful chart with a schedule for the evening including the order for baths (or nights if not everyone bathes every night). Post it close to the bedrooms where everyone can see it & then do my darndest to follow it.

With the girls I would probably try putting one of them to sleep in my own bed & move her when I went to bed so they weren't disturbing each other while falling asleep.

For the oldest girl (I assuming here) that she can go to bed a little bit later than the others. So perhaps she can have her quiet reading time somewhere other than her bed. Maybe on the couch or even in the bath (I could/can read for hours in a hot bath!). Then (hopefully) the other two would be asleep when she went in to sleep & wouldn't be disturbing.

I heard a suggestion once of giving each child a "hall pass" for bedtime. They could use it once to get out of bed for a glass of water or to pee or to get something they wanted to bring to bed or for a hug or..... but once they used it that was it, they had to stay in their beds. Don't know if it would work but it would certainly be worth a try.

Do your children help with meal prep? Maybe that would help keep them engaged for meals.

[Spirit Dancer]

Put the 2 yr old to bed in your bed and then move her to her own room after she and her sister are asleep. I do this and it works.

[eepster]

I view nightly bathing for under 7 yo as mostly recreational. Though this varies (some kids really know how to find dirt) most little kids really don't need a bath more than once a week. The reason for a nightly bath at that age is to help the child wind down, relax and get sleepy. If it doesn't have this effect, then I wouldn't push for it.

Have you considered putting the little ones all in the bath together? It would make it more fun and possibly it would then have the effect of relaxing them.

I would take the youngest to your bed with you.

Are you putting them to bed too early maybe? Possibly you could stagger bed times a bit, so the youngest one were already settled before sending the oldest in to read herself to sleep (I myself need to read to sleep too, so I really understand this need.)

[Anastasiya]

Quite honestly, I would play tough for as long as it was needed to get some of this behavior to stop.

Originally Posted by AngieB

Dinner Time
1.) picky picky eaters who complain about the food, don't eat and just make me crazy.

I don't mind picky eaters because sometimes that can't be helped, but if an eater is picky the only alternative in this house is a peanut butter sandwich. I am not a short-order chef and what I make is what we eat.

I DO, however, mind eaters who complain about the food. Once is one thing. Over and over again? Food is taken away or the eater is excused and no alternative is given. Reason being: It is fine to pick around food if you genuinely dislike it. It is NOT fine to vocalize one's dislike about a food after someone has taken the time to prepare it. Doing so is rude.

2.) They are all Loud and rude, the 2 year old does things like sitting on the table and bugging the other kids

I wouldn't tolerate this. No one needs to be sitting on the table when people are trying to eat. If the child persisted, I'd move her to a highchair until she realized that we sit at the table, not on the table. But I'm just "mean" that way.

big kids getting up a wondering around then come back, making a huge mess and not cleaning up after themselves.

In our house, leaving the table to wander = meal is over. You get up, you're done. End of discussion. We do not wander around the house at mealtime, esp at those ages. Also, not cleaning up? No dessert if we have dessert that night.

After dinner
1.) Fights over who will bath first or if they will bath at all.

Make up a schedule and rotate the order in which the children bathe. Tell them this is the way it will be done and if they don't want to follow the order then they don't need a bath as much as they thought.

2.) Lots of fighting between kids

Maybe due to the chaos? From just this little bit of info it sounds like the kids are running the home in the evening and have no regard for rules, respect, etc.

Bedtime
1.) the two youngest girls will not go to bed at night. They won't stay in their bed. for 2-3 hours a night they get up about every minute or 2 to tell on each other, get a drink, got to the bathroom, run and hide in another room.

Separate bedtimes? The 5 year old surely can stay up a half hour later, or the 2 1/2 year old can go to bed a half hour earlier, no? Otherwise, put one child in your room to be moved later. Lock the bathroom and other bedroom doors so they can't wander through the home hiding everywhere, and unlock them when you come back to bed. (I mean lock the OTHER doors in the home that are not being used, by the way - I do not mean lock the kids in their rooms)

Oldest dd needs to read at night and the little girls make it almost impossible.

Can she read elsewhere, like in a den or in another quiet part of the house? Make her a little nook or something?

I feel like I have lost complete control of my household in general and I think if I can get these evening hours back under control it would be a major step in the right direction.

Yes, I agree it sounds that way. And I was there too. Evenings and nighttimes were a nightmare in our house for many months until I just put my foot down and said no more. And really, the kids needed me to do that. The chaos was making everyone so irritable.

[AnnieA]

Originally Posted by Sancta

Quite honestly, I would play tough for as long as it was needed to get some of this behavior to stop.


I don't mind picky eaters because sometimes that can't be helped, but if an eater is picky the only alternative in this house is a peanut butter sandwich. I am not a short-order chef and what I make is what we eat.

I DO, however, mind eaters who complain about the food. Once is one thing. Over and over again? Food is taken away or the eater is excused and no alternative is given. Reason being: It is fine to pick around food if you genuinely dislike it. It is NOT fine to vocalize one's dislike about a food after someone has taken the time to prepare it. Doing so is rude.


I wouldn't tolerate this. No one needs to be sitting on the table when people are trying to eat. If the child persisted, I'd move her to a highchair until she realized that we sit at the table, not on the table. But I'm just "mean" that way.


In our house, leaving the table to wander = meal is over. You get up, you're done. End of discussion. We do not wander around the house at mealtime, esp at those ages. Also, not cleaning up? No dessert if we have dessert that night.


Make up a schedule and rotate the order in which the children bathe. Tell them this is the way it will be done and if they don't want to follow the order then they don't need a bath as much as they thought.


Maybe due to the chaos? From just this little bit of info it sounds like the kids are running the home in the evening and have no regard for rules, respect, etc.


Separate bedtimes? The 5 year old surely can stay up a half hour later, or the 2 1/2 year old can go to bed a half hour earlier, no? Otherwise, put one child in your room to be moved later. Lock the bathroom and other bedroom doors so they can't wander through the home hiding everywhere, and unlock them when you come back to bed. (I mean lock the OTHER doors in the home that are not being used, by the way - I do not mean lock the kids in their rooms)


Can she read elsewhere, like in a den or in another quiet part of the house? Make her a little nook or something?


Yes, I agree it sounds that way. And I was there too. Evenings and nighttimes were a nightmare in our house for many months until I just put my foot down and said no more. And really, the kids needed me to do that. The chaos was making everyone so irritable.

I agree with all of these points. I have 4 stepkids and we have had to be very firm when it comes to the evening routine otherwise it would result in chaos as well. We also have the rule that if you leave the table to get up and wander around, you're done eating. Is it possible for you to do baths for the little ones in the late afternoon before dinner? Also, I would stagger the bedtimes as well, especially for the two that share a bed.

If you decided to implement some of these suggestions, I would have a family meeting a different time than evening when things are crazy and explain how things are going to be different. Give the ground rules, i.e. no sitting on the table, no wandering around, everyone clears their spots, no complaining about food, etc. so they know what to expect. DH and I follow the rule in our house that grownups are responsible for providing the food and kids are responsible for eating it. If they don't eat at dinner, there will always be breakfast tomorrow.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

Different idea for bedtime for the two little ones -- if they go to bed at the same time, can you go with them? Seems like the older ones are old enough to fend for themselves for 15-30 minutes while you read a story and snuggle with the little girls. Girl, you, girl in the bed. You can keep them calm and quiet, not bugging each other. I sing mine to sleep but you could try something else. Once they are asleep, then you get up and carry on. Side benefit here is that they get snuggle time and attention from you, which they probably crave. And if they aren't behaving the obvious logical consequence is that you get up and leave.

Once the little ones are asleep, maybe the older girl could use a book light for reading? Might make a good holiday gift.

I would start a bath schedule as others have suggested.

My answer to picky eaters has worked really well for me. I (or DH, we alternate) make dinner. We ask for and take requests for specifics during menu planning for the week (pre grocery shopping). If you decide you don't like what is for dinner, that is fine. But you are in charge are getting yourself an acceptible substitute (e.g. carrots for the veggine, PB&J for the protein...). As soon as they were out of the highchair, if they wanted something else they needed to get it. I do not going to interupt my hot meal for their requests and I don't short order cook before dinner. But I also respect that they have likes and dislikes, just like I do.

Overall though, are you a single parent or do you have a partner who could help? Even with just two kids (6 and 10) it is much much easier when both parents are home and actively participate in the evening routine. DH and I basically say that between 8 and 9 both of our attention is on bedtime routine -- one of us keeps showers, teeth and such going. We alternate which parent is with which child each night. We read a chapter and then snuggle, sing or whatever until the child is asleep (DD) or is ready to be left alone (DS). Then we come back together and go on with our own evening chores or whatever. It seems to take us much less time if we split the responsibilities than if one of us does "kids" and the other doesn't.

[DeerMother]

[QUOTE=Jeannettea;14804807

Have the three oldest kids sit down and each make a list of seven meals they LOVE. Include everything - sides and all. [/QUOTE]
A spin on this I read somewhere is to have dc write x amount of meals they like on separate index cards. When its time to plan meals/ grocery shop, turn the cards face down or put in a bag or box and have them blindly pick enough meals to last for a week. This way if they don't like what is for dinner that night. . . well, they picked it. You could also eliminate more expensive meals from the mix if cash is tight or more involved meals if you don't feel like going to the trouble.
We're going round and round about dinner, I'm coming to the conclusion that they are eating larger meals earlier in the day and just wanting something light in the evening. Maybe make dinner your easy meal - quesadillas (sorry, sp), eggs, yogurt and granola etc.
What if the oldest read in your bed at night instead of her own?
Since it is winter and they may not be as in need of a bath, what about doing two one night and two the next? Write it down on a poster board so there are no surprises.
My parents made my sister and I do this when we were kids (we hated it, but it made us behave) - if there was too much bickering, they shut it down and made us say three nice things about the other person. If we kept up w/ the nonsense we added to our "punishment". Sure, they were a lot of "you look nice today" and "you have pretty hair" shallow comments, but it forced us to think of our sibling in a different light than just someone there to get on our nerves.