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Contemplating Feminine Incarnation-What if Jesus had been born a girl?

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
I thought this was interesting....

http://blog.sojo.net/2009/12/15/cont...e-incarnation/

Quote:
The first thought that came to mind was, “would Jesus have even been born if he had been a girl?” In a culture that valued sons, I wonder what Joseph’s response would have been if the angel hadn’t told him “She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.” The birth of sons was celebrated....

I definite think for the time, Jesus had to be born a man. To be a Rabbi... to be viewed as a teacher... etc. One thing that came to mind was Jesus's whole message of turn the other cheek, love your enemies, would have been written off as sentimental feminine stuff, had he been a girl, I fear.

What are your thoughts?
post #2 of 20
Jesus was born a man because that is what was prophecied. All the way back in Genesis 3, the Bible says of the seed of the woman, "he (Jesus) will crush your head, but you (satan) will buise his heel (speaking of the crucifixion), ." Also, in Isaiah, it says, "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given and the government will be upon his shoulders...." Jesus was prophesied to be of the kingly line of David. Only men could rule in that line. Jesus is also the Great High Priest, the only one we need, who offered himself as a sacrifice and now live to make intercession. A woman could not have been that priest. In Exodus, God gives the command for the killing of the passover lamb, specifically a young male lamb. In 1 Peter, Peter tells us that Jesus is the passover lamb "slain before the foundations of the world." A woman could not have been the passover lamb sacrifice to cover our sins.

I think that from a secular perspective, your thinking that women were not a highly favored, therefore Jesus couldn't be a woman is correct also. However, whenever a question about Jesus comes up, I always like to look first at what the Bible has to say.

I pray you find your answers this Christmas season.
post #3 of 20
It would have kinda mucked up the whole Second Adam parallelism.
post #4 of 20
Smokering

*If* God had decided that His incarnation would have been female, then she would have been born. Also, although the Romans were known for aborting and for "exposing" infants, and particularly girls, I wasn't aware that the Jews practiced those things. Pretty sure they didn't. And while culturally and socially boys were celebrated, that doesn't mean all daughters were unwanted or unloved. If there would be any time when a man would accept a female child as special in some way, I imagine and announcement from Almighty God, via angel messenger, would be it.

I'm not sure, though, what point there is to contemplating all this. If you don't believe it at all, it doesn't matter. If you do believe Jesus is God incarnate, then it's already happened, he was born a boy, and it's moot from that perspective too.
post #5 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cappuccinosmom View Post
I'm not sure, though, what point there is to contemplating all this. If you don't believe it at all, it doesn't matter. If you do believe Jesus is God incarnate, then it's already happened, he was born a boy, and it's moot from that perspective too.
The author says in the beginning that at a recent sermon they were "Aencouraged to find ways to see the world differently this week. Change our routine and change our perspective to help us get out of the rut of going through life without actually seeing the world." They drew slips of paper... and hers was to imagine that Jesus has been born a girl.
post #6 of 20
As PPs have suggested, it partly depends on who you think Jesus is. The question falls in with similar questions, like "What if Jesus had been born in the twentieth century?" or "What if Jesus had been born in India to a Hindu family?" If Jesus was the Messiah and God incarnate, the questions make no sense. He could only have been born to a Hebrew mother. Not only that, but to a woman of the House of David. He could not have been born at any time except when he was, because circumstances prophesied in Scripture had come together at that particular point in time. And he could only have been a son, not a daughter.

If he was not the Messiah, he could very well have been born a girl (or at another time and place), but then he would have been just some woman...and the question becomes meaningless.

The author suggests some other possibilities in this hypothetical situation, and taking the view that Jesus was a prophet and teacher only. First, that Jesus had to be male because a woman speaking of theological matters would be rejected. I am not so sure. The Jewish people had female as well as male prophets. Why would they reject this woman any more than Naomi, Ruth, Esther, Deborah, or Miriam?

I think she is also trying to fit certain concepts into modern forms of thinking. For example, when she talks about the religious patriarchy which has shut women out, she is referring to the ancient Hebrew faith and practice for which Jesus had the greatest reverence. When he made corrections, it was to things which did not follow or revere religious tradition enough. He was meant to be the fulfillment of prophey, not its revolutionary. The priesthood, for example, was not open to women or to men outside the correct tribe. This practice clashes with the modern concept of fairness and justice, but it is indispensable to the faith Jesus represented. Anyone, male or female, who rejected or tried to overturn Hebrew tradition was not the promised Messiah.

I wonder about her comments on the potential effects of a female Messiah. She says,
Quote:
If the person we commit our lives to follow and who sacrificed herself on our behalf was a woman, I can’t help but think that would have significantly impacted how we have perceived and treated women for the last 2,000 years.
The person Christians now follow was a man, yet Christians have been cruel and unjust to countless men over the years. If their Messiah had been a woman, what would keep them from treating women just as badly? Does she really think women and other vulnerable people are oppressed simply because we lack a good role model?
post #7 of 20
That last point is a good one mamabadger.

Her question almost has a ring of "women would always do it better, if they had a chance to control things", which I've heard other places as well (and which I disagree with ). Men and women have the capacity to opress and mistreat men and women. And although power structures have given men more opportunities to prove it, we've seen women do it too.
post #8 of 20
Personally I find the question interesting, just as I find the whole subject area of gender and prophethood interesting, but that is looking at the question through the lens of our religion. Though looking at it through that lens, the view that Jesus is either God incarnate or just some inconsequential guy is a little .

But looking at it from the view of Jesus or other prophets as fully human beings protected to a somewhat minimum degree by god, it does bring up the question of whether the negative response to a woman making the same claims would be stronger, and whether the positive response would be weaker.
post #9 of 20
Thread Starter 
Just thinking about this in the shower... have any major religions been founded by women? Women were integral in Jesus's ministry... in Prophet Muhammad's life (first believer was his wife)... Sara and Abraham...etc. The Baha'is had Bahu'allah. Buddhists...Siddhartha. Heck, even Scientology was founded by L. Ron Hubbard. Probably the Earth religions... Goddess religions...but I can't think of names.

I don't know about Hinduism... I don't equate a specific founder with the faith. I know there have been successful female ministers... and Amy Semple McPherson comes to mind for the whole FourSquare movement.... but still, a major religion, founded by a woman... I'm drawing a blank. Even female Prophets in the Bible and Qur'an... umm... tough to name. Deborah? Miriam, Aaron's sister...? In the Qur'an... I don't know if Maryam/Mary (Jesus's Mom) counts. She has a book named after her, but I don't remember her being an "official" prophet.
post #10 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by umsami View Post
have any major religions been founded by women?
I guess it depends what you mean by "major" religions. Mary Baker Eddy founded Christian Science. I think the Seventh Day Adventists and the Shakers were also founded by women.
post #11 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamabadger View Post
I guess it depends what you mean by "major" religions. Mary Baker Eddy founded Christian Science. I think the Seventh Day Adventists and the Shakers were also founded by women.
Yes, good points... although they are all Christian denominations, so still part of Christianity--Jesus/Paul. I should have remembered Mary Baker Eddy... I used to subscribe to the CSMonitor for years! : to Ellen G. White too!
post #12 of 20
I just wanted to say interesting blog post! I suspect I will be thinking about this in the likely event that I am woken up repeatedly tonight!
post #13 of 20
I don't know if this has any interest to you, but it's also something to think about - there are aspects of Jewish mysticism that talk about God as having feminine aspects. I think that's interesting, anyway.
post #14 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by puffnstuff View Post
I don't know if this has any interest to you, but it's also something to think about - there are aspects of Jewish mysticism that talk about God as having feminine aspects. I think that's interesting, anyway.
That is interesting! I have often felt that Jesus embodies the feminine aspect of God.

I think I have even pondered this before, now that I think about it!

I really don't know much about the history of that time period, just a tiny bit here and there from reading different things. I'm wondering, would the Romans have crucified a woman?
post #15 of 20
Yep; the Romans crucified men and women both, according to Google.
post #16 of 20
Interesting!!! I don't even know why I asked that! Just wondering.
post #17 of 20
Lest anyone forget that not everyone in the religious studies forum, (or in the ancient world) is cisgendered, I'd suggest a point the blogger didn't make: Since Jesus rejected nearly every privilege granted to him because of being born a man (power, money, ordained ministry, wife, etc), and instead preached feminine practices like love, sacrifice, and forgiveness; spent much of his time teaching and healing (what gender are most teachers? medical professionals?), and frequently surrounded himself with women and children...well...let's just say he was a better woman than I am.

Though, traditionally, the Holy Spirit (Sophia/Wisdom in the poetic books of the Bible) is considered the feminine side of the Trinity.
post #18 of 20
Quote:
and instead preagched feminine practices like love, sacrifice, and forgiveness; spent much of his time teaching and healin
Why are these "female qualities", making Jesus feminine? He also surrounded himself with men. I didn't know that who one associates one determines that sort of thing?

One of the things I appreciate about Christianity is that at it's core, we are *all* called to be loving, sacrificing, forgiving, and that those are qualities a good and masculine man can and should have. Religion aside, I don't see any evidence that women are inherently better at those things. Gender differences may have them show up differently in men, but they are not exclusive to women.
post #19 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by cappuccinosmom View Post
Why are these "female qualities", making Jesus feminine? He also surrounded himself with men. I didn't know that who one associates one determines that sort of thing?

One of the things I appreciate about Christianity is that at it's core, we are *all* called to be loving, sacrificing, forgiving, and that those are qualities a good and masculine man can and should have. Religion aside, I don't see any evidence that women are inherently better at those things. Gender differences may have them show up differently in men, but they are not exclusive to women.

Jesus was (I believe) Messiah to the human race, not to whichever sex he belonged to.
post #20 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by puffnstuff View Post
I don't know if this has any interest to you, but it's also something to think about - there are aspects of Jewish mysticism that talk about God as having feminine aspects. I think that's interesting, anyway.
True...and it is my understanding that the sacred feminine was still very much in existence during the time of Jesus.

Not sure where my brain is taking this thought yet, but it is an interesting question to ask.
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