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Why does my chosen faith matter so much to others?

post #1 of 36
Thread Starter 
I'm at a bit of a loss and hoping some of the wonderful people here can help explain this. Although raised a Christian, I haven't actively practiced for a few years. In the past year I've undergone a lot of introspection, etc. and realized that I never really believed the Christian values and that there were just too many things that *for me* did not work in the Christian faith. My DH ws going through a similar soul searching at this time and we realized that we've probably always been more affiliated with paganism. It works for us, it fits us, and we've found a good deal of joy and contentment with it. What we do not do is go around advertising it, pushing it on people or really even bringing it up or mentioning it. For one thing, there's a lot of hostility out there towards paganism for some reason (no it's not satanic and no we don't sacrifice anything, etc.), and for another reason, I have no problem whatsoever respecting the fact that most people are not pagans. In our families and group of friends, the majority of people are Christians, and though that wasn't a good fit for us, I respect that it is for them.

Why is it so terribly hard to get the same respect from others? Few know of what we follow, but of those that do, the ones who follow the Christian faith will.not.drop.it. I mean, suddenly every conversation has them praising God or throwing out some obvious religious phrase literally every third sentence or more. They never talked like that before we converted, in fact, it almost never came up. Now though, it's perfectly acceptable to ridicule the gods we may celebrate and push their beliefs in our face. I do not and will not do that to them. From talking with other pagans, this seems to be pretty common. Can anyone offer any insight into this?
post #2 of 36
I'm sorry I can't really offer any insight to that point of view, but I do understand what you're saying.

I don't even mention my beliefs or the Gods I worship to people who won't respect what I believe. How easy would it be to ridicule me for worshiping Zeus? Yeah, I don't even go there with people who don't get it.

The way I look at is that we're all on our own paths, and I can never expect anyone to be on the same path as me. So if someone is on a path that is "exclusive" and they feel that people who are on a different path are "wrong", then I just take a step back and allow them to feel that way. That's all about them and nothing about me.

And I guess I can't blame them because their religion teaches that they must feel that way....it's something that completely turned me off to Christianity - the whole exclusiveness of it - but some people are into it. What else can I do but just let it go?

I hope you find peace.
post #3 of 36
Never mind.
post #4 of 36
Well, I'm a Christian, and I really don't get that kind of thing either. I mean, I'd be quite happy to debate the merits of paganism vs. Christianity, but not if the other person doesn't want to.

I think it must be that they think the person is taking a path that will lead them to a bad place, and want to prevent that. Now, I think that as a person draws really closer to God, God will reveal himself to them, even if they don't get it always (and who does?) So to me, to strengthen the persons commitment to seeking truth, and living it, and maybe avoid falsehoods they are unaware of, are the best ways to approach someone who may be headed into a bad place. But you have to respect them as human beings to really do this and have it not seem patronizing.

Now, I think a lot of Christians thing paganism in particular can open people up to negative influences. Some think it is all Satanic, but others think that although it isn't, individuals can easily, and unwittingly, be misled by invisible, evil forces. Because paganism is understood as a kind of natural religion, and so especially subject to all our human limitations, which can so easily be taken advantage of.

If the people in question think this sort of thing is really likely and happens a lot, then they are probably really worried about it, which I guess is logical enough.
post #5 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by philomom View Post
That.

If xtains didn't carry on so about their way being the only way... I might share the time of day with them more often. But sadly, they want to spend time with you only to convert you and they get upset when you don't go to church with them.
Wow. I've got quite a response to that but I'm pretty sure its against the UA It would be really charitable of you to think about how your posts come across to others before you post them to the internet.
post #6 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by philomom View Post
If xtains didn't carry on so about their way being the only way... I might share the time of day with them more often. But sadly, they want to spend time with you only to convert you and they get upset when you don't go to church with them.
This is so offensive!
It's just not true, I know lots of Christians who have never invited me to their church or tried to convert me.

About the original post, I think in a lot of cases it has to do with the idea that if you have different beliefs, one must be wrong. Some people feel that way, and don't want to believe that they could be the ones who are wrong. Also, some people are just rude
post #7 of 36
Sunshine, I can't really offer insight... but I can offer that I don't give a flying...reindeer if they respect my religious choices or not. What I do care about is that when I say leave off with the conversion attempts, they respect THAT.

I don't know that it's really right to crucify (sorry for the odd choice of term, it seemed to fit lol) philomom for her statement. Granted it might not have been said in the most gentle of terms.. but then, if you are of a pagan faith quite often Christian responses are way more offensive than her words. I would take her words to mean that she's had some very negative experiences in that realm, and I can understand a wee bit of bitterness.. so maybe a little understanding is in order?
post #8 of 36
If it helps, I get the same thing even though I am a Christian. I just belong to an "unusual" faction of Christianity, and when people from certain denominations find this out, they keep trying to steer the conversation around to what the Bible says about this or that, keep trying to get us to pray with them, etc. They will not let it go! We have had to drop friends because of this issue. So you do not have to be a Pagan to be judged and hounded by Christians (although it probably helps )
post #9 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by weliveintheforest View Post
This is so offensive!
It's just not true, I know lots of Christians who have never invited me to their church or tried to convert me.
See that is really interesting. I have one friend who is close to dropping off that list because it's suddenly become constant with her and religious references (before she knew we were pagan even, just that we weren't Christian). I finally confronted her on it and the constant pushing, and her reply was that she wasn't pushing - after all, she'd never once asked us to go to church with her! After going to church in the Christian faith for so long, I do know in some churches it is considered a priority to spread the word and get people to join your faith, though certainly not all Christians (or really, insert people of any faith) are like that.
post #10 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by CariOfOz View Post
I don't know that it's really right to crucify (sorry for the odd choice of term, it seemed to fit lol) philomom for her statement. Granted it might not have been said in the most gentle of terms.. but then, if you are of a pagan faith quite often Christian responses are way more offensive than her words. I would take her words to mean that she's had some very negative experiences in that realm, and I can understand a wee bit of bitterness.. so maybe a little understanding is in order?

Yeah, I don't understand why what Philomom said was shocking. Many people, even Christians, that I know also can say the same of certain types, or even certain individuals, of Christians. Some Christians are very very pushy with their faith and their efforts to convert, to the point of intolerance and rudeness of other beliefs. Other Christians are not, they're more the "live by example" sort. Which, IMO, speaks volumes more than the pushers. I reckon philomom probably comes into contact with the pushy sort and is probably at her max of dealing with it. It's hard being a non-Christian amongst certain Christians. Heck, it's hard being the "wrong-version" of Christian amongst certain other versions of Christians. I mean, when I was Catholic, my family was sneered at by neighborhood kids for not being "saved." I know of other people of other Christian varieties who've had the same reception for being "the wrong kind" of Christian.

OP, I think your chosen faith matters so much, because of the active always looking to convert and pushy about it Christians. They see you as one who strayed from the path and are looking to win you back. That's why it matters so much. Oh and they probably think you're stepping into a world of Satanism. They're not interested in your faith as much as they are interested in getting you to join them.
post #11 of 36
I've met equally annoying and rude people of all religions, including pagans who constantly need to point out how much more reasonable their religion is than Christianity, which is populated solely by the stupid and uneducated. As far as I can see, no religion has been successful at reforming or excluding jerks.
post #12 of 36
Well i'm not christian, i'm not anything in fact, i'm relentlessly logical and looking for something a religion cannot give me (answers, real, solid, scientific, proven answers - there aren't any! lol). Maybe it's just that they feel a "difference" they hadn't thought about until now? Like before they assumed you were Christian or never thought about your faith, but now they know you're pagan they feel it as a new gulf between you?

Christianity DOES teach spreading the Word, it is a converting religion, so to some extent i expect that. One of DH's friends asks him every. single. week. if we want to come to his church. He gets a lot out of his spiritual beliefs and DH, reluctant to make him feel at all less positive about it, gives him a bague answer every week, rather than saying "we're NOT looking for a religion" or (my suggestion) "we worship Life at the pool on a weekend" .

I'd try not to worry too much about it. It's not your issue so you needn't take it on. The more comfortable you are with your choice in relation to you and in relation to all the other religions in the world people might beling to, the more your attitude will come across as "oh, hmm, sure, i guess, whatever floats your boat ". You're right to not get into discussions you don't want to have, just try to stay chilled and not get into anything and they will, eventually, get the message.

As a small aside i frequently quiz people of various faiths about their beliefs, because i don't understand them, and i like to try. i'm not doing it to criticise, i just want to hear what they have to say in case *I* have missed something important and relevant for ME.
post #13 of 36
Quote:
If xtains didn't carry on so about their way being the only way... I might share the time of day with them more often. But sadly, they want to spend time with you only to convert you and they get upset when you don't go to church with them.
Well, that's a rather broad brush to paint with. Not exactly respectful of other's religions.

I would *love* to see all my friends in Heaven at the end of things. I won't hide my faith, and if I "talk too religious", it's not because i'm trying to annoy someone. My faith is my life, sometimes it slips out into the open.

However, I spend time with people because I enjoy their company, I value their friendship, and being a friend to all who need one is something I feel I'm called to do. I have never dropped someone because I couldn't convert them. I have not tried to convert them. OTOH, non-Christians have dropped me because although I didn't push my beliefs, when they asked they didn't like my answers. So this kind of thing goes both ways.

To the OP: If they're evangelical Christians, it matters because they love you and want you to spend an eternity with God, and having rejected Christinity, they see that as a step away from God. It may be annoying, but I'm pretty sure it's not because they hate you, but quite the opposite.
post #14 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluegoat View Post
I've met equally annoying and rude people of all religions, including pagans who constantly need to point out how much more reasonable their religion is than Christianity, which is populated solely by the stupid and uneducated. As far as I can see, no religion has been successful at reforming or excluding jerks.
True, but I've never seen a pagan who denies that those sorts of pagans exist.
post #15 of 36
I think several of the pps are right in that evangelical christians feel "called" to do that, and that at the basis of their faith they *really* do feel like they need to save you. Also, at the basis of their faith christianity is the absolute one and only *true* faith, so- you know, you are worshipping *false* gods and they need to help you. It's the nature of christianity to have this sort of behavior. It is an EXCLUSIVE religion, like a pp said. There is only one way....

How about, why does my non-faith matter so much to people? I've found that religious folk of all kinds become really pissed when they find out you don't believe in any gods. They take it personally. IME, I just keep my big mouth shut and don't let on, for the most part, what I believe. A lot of smiles and nods...Not very brave I must admit, but where I live you just can't say what you really think.

When you believe in something different than the majority around you it becomes a challenge about who you let in or not. So for the most part, unless you happen to live in a liberal area or larger city, anyone other than a christian will face some type of preaching to, disdain, mockery, discrimination, ostracizing, or even violence. It's like living *in the closet*.
post #16 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluegoat View Post
As far as I can see, no religion has been successful at reforming or excluding jerks.
Right on!

Quote:
Originally Posted by marimara View Post
When you believe in something different than the majority around you it becomes a challenge about who you let in or not. So for the most part, unless you happen to live in a liberal area or larger city, anyone other than a christian will face some type of preaching to, disdain, mockery, discrimination, ostracizing, or even violence. It's like living *in the closet*.
Sorry, slight derailment coming. It occurred to me that you could insert "mainstream" (as in not crunchy) in the place of "christian" in this sentence and it would work just as well. And since this is MDC I bet a lot of people of many different religions would empathize. Because we all come here to talk about our crunchy parenting/lifestyle choices with people who "get it" - and in the "outside world" many of us face all kinds of annoying (occasionally well-meaning, occasionally ego-based and mean) preachiness from people who think that ap and alternative healthcare, diets, education, etc. are wrong and harmful, yet love their children just as much as ap parents do.

Anyway, not sure where that was going Back to lurking...
post #17 of 36
The behavior you describe is obnoxious, but in answer to the general question of "Why do Christians care that I'm a non-Christian more than I care that they're not pagan?", it's not symmetrical. Christians (for the most part) believe that if you're not a Christian, you will go to hell. As far as I know paganism does not have a corresponding view of hell/eternal punishment/whatever for non-pagans. So it makes sense they'd care more than you do: the stakes are higher. "You'll go to hell" is a rather more worrying consequence than "You won't achieve the spiritual benefits/enlightenment/happiness that come from exploring paganism", you know?

So at the noblest end of the spectrum, they could simply be agonising over the fact that they believe you, a loved one, are going to hell. At the other end, they could be simply being jerks who have the vague impression you slaughter babies and feel the need to constantly inject the name of God into the conversation to remind you they won't have any of your baby-slaughtering ways. In actual fact, you'll probably run across people from all shades of the spectrum.
post #18 of 36
I ran across this blog post the other day, and it seems somewhat related to the topic of this thread, so I'm going to post a link for anyone interested.

The Essence of Religion: Four Theories

If you don't think it's relevant, feel free to ignore it.
post #19 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teenytoona View Post
True, but I've never seen a pagan who denies that those sorts of pagans exist.
Is anyone denying that annoying Christians exist?
post #20 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluegoat View Post
I've met equally annoying and rude people of all religions, including pagans who constantly need to point out how much more reasonable their religion is than Christianity, which is populated solely by the stupid and uneducated. As far as I can see, no religion has been successful at reforming or excluding jerks.
Oh we pagans absolutely know we have our own obnoxious people, trust me. I avoid them like the plague. *Most* of the pagans I've met like you describe, tend to be new to the whole idea of paganism and doing a serious rebelling against what they were brought up with as well. Although I'll admit I've met a couple of old timers that just made me roll my eyes because they are doing the same thing they profess to dislike about Christianity... preaching. Most pagans though, don't care what faith you follow, as long as it brings you peace and you are tolerant of others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ursusarctos View Post
Sorry, slight derailment coming. It occurred to me that you could insert "mainstream" (as in not crunchy) in the place of "christian" in this sentence and it would work just as well. And since this is MDC I bet a lot of people of many different religions would empathize.
Intersting analogy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokering View Post
The behavior you describe is obnoxious, but in answer to the general question of "Why do Christians care that I'm a non-Christian more than I care that they're not pagan?", it's not symmetrical. Christians (for the most part) believe that if you're not a Christian, you will go to hell. As far as I know paganism does not have a corresponding view of hell/eternal punishment/whatever for non-pagans. So it makes sense they'd care more than you do: the stakes are higher. "You'll go to hell" is a rather more worrying consequence than "You won't achieve the spiritual benefits/enlightenment/happiness that come from exploring paganism", you know?
You are right, paganism has nothing like that, because there are many variations of paganism and none make any 'one true way' claims.

I suppose the rub is, even Christians believe that god gifted man with free will... which means that he gave humans the ability, and even the right, to deny him or to choose other beliefs. So who gave Joe Christian the right to be the keeper of anyone elses' soul but his own? If the offer must be made, then fine..but people have trouble taking no for an answer, which causes a lot of widescale resentment ya know?
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