teacher needing some GD input

[shanniesue2]

Please don't flame me for this post... I'm going to be asking about ADHD

I teach kindergarten. Have been teaching early childhood for 6 years. My classroom discipline philosophy has always been to keep kids busy and engaged so that they stay out of trouble. And I use mostly Becky Bailey stuff for times when something more concrete is necessary. And my classroom is usually a buzzing and respectful place to be.

So here's my ADHD question (I'm looking for an MDC perspective because I get plenty of mainstream perspective on this at my work place). I have a child who I strongly suspect has ADHD. Of course I realize I'm not a doctor and I can't diagnose, but if he were my child, I would be looking into it. He seems to have no control over his body and just does whatever he happens to do whenever it happens to occur to him no matter what. I.E. during center time the other day he started jumping and flinging himself around the room (he was happy) and before I could do anything he had accidentally hit several people and elbowed one girl in the nose. Or he will frequently just run across the room and knock someone's block building over and run off and he doesn't even seem to realize what he did. During group time (which I keep fairly short--I have realistic expectations) he is rolling all over the floor and poking people and pulling hair. I don't think it's maliscious, I think he just DOES it. When we're having discussion (about anything-- it could be letters/sounds, math games, the book we just read) he just shouts out random answers repeatedly... whether they make sense or not. His behavior is to the point where it's hard for the other students to learn anything and he's hurting them on top of it.

I have tried all my Becky Bailey and GD tricks with him (over and over... I realize that it takes time) with no improvement... he actually seems to be getting more "Spirited." I have even taken to adopting a card system (which I have never used or wanted to use) with a chance to visit a treasure box for good behavior. That showed some improvement initially... but it doesn't seem to be making much of a difference any more. I have spoken with his parents about his behavior (not in terms of ADHD though) but I hate doing that because all his mom ever says is "we'll make sure to get him." And I know exactly what that means. But because spanking isn't illegal, I can't report them for abuse... and he's not showing up with bruises or anything. I know that the spankings aren't helping. And I've tried working with the mom and giving her other ways to help... like I've talked to her about making sure that he gets lots of exercise at home and I've encouraged her to have discussions with him about how his behavior affects the classroom. But I'm honestly beginning to wonder if a dose of ritalin (or something similar) wouldn't help in this situation. (please don't flame me for that--I honestly don't say it lightly... this is the first child I've ever thought this about). I know I can't and would never say that to the mom... and I am working with my administrators about how to approach the possibility of ADHD with his mom (or if I even should) but I'm wondering from you MDC mamas... at what point would you consider ADHD to be the cause of behaviors and at what point would you consider medication if ADHD were the cause? AND do any of you anve any brilliant ideas for something else I can do in the classroom to help him control his behavior a little more? I mean, I can't spend every second of every day only with this one child (because I have 19 others that need my attention, too). But I want to help, and I NEED my classroom to be a safe learning envrionment. (kind) input and help, please?

[Encinalien]

My brother took ridlin. It helped him stay on task and actually accomplish his goals. It helps some people in some cases. People grow and change and our brain chemestry changes as we change. He won't need it forever. If he takes it and it helps it won't be forever; if it helps him get less spankings it's already useful.

I don't know about the effects of ridlin physiologically, it might be like smoking cigerrettes and stunt your growth -or- whatever? But the natural parenting choices that we choose to make improve the quality of our lives. If that family's not so crunchy to seek out alternative strategies & therapies that are better than what the mainstream culture is offering then by all means support them in using ridlin since it will relieve some of their suffering and improve their quality of life. I don't know exactly who suggested it to my step-mother when my brother was six. But the whole family (including him and he's grown) are glad they did.

I know some people that are so religious they would take pills for a headache or a stomach ache but would use prayers and punishment rather than ridlin. So the family may not want to explore that option even if you bring it up. People are funny and unique.

[harrietsmama]

It does sound like you have a spirited child on your hands and that sadly his home supports are probably aggravating rather than helpful. I think some things that might help would be pushing heavy stuff around, jumping on a rebounder, lifting heavy stuff like one of those big brown medicine balls we had in school? My son is pretty intense, but it sounds like this little guy has him beat by a lot. I know there are homeopathic remedies that can help instead of Ritalin, in fact I think one is called Kidalin or something like that. I hope someone else can chime in with more ideas

[MtBikeLover]

My DS is in a class with a student that sounds just like that. Yesterday, that student took rope to school and was putting it around the kids necks. And no teacher saw this! Luckily DS was smart enough to go tell a teacher when the kid tried to do it to him. I've been told that the situation has been "severly dealt with" but I have no idea what that means.

And I feel bad for this kid because he obviously needs help. I don't think punishments are doing anything to help him. But my first priority is to make sure my son is safe at school. What is stopping this kid from bringing a pocket knife to school the next time?!?!?!

I'll be watching this thread with interest.

[PikkuMyy]

What about referring him for special education services?

I'm a special education teacher and it sounds like at the very least, this boy could use some occupational therapy for his sensory systems.

[justKate]

Originally Posted by PikkuMyy

What about referring him for special education services?

I'm a special education teacher and it sounds like at the very least, this boy could use some occupational therapy for his sensory systems.

I have no experience with this, but as a parent, i might be off-put by the suggestion that my child had ADHD. I would be less off-put (and more concerned) if I were approached with teachers' concerns that she needed to learn a "different way" or had sensory issues that made it hard for her to be in a classroom setting.

Good luck. I'm sure this is hard for you to deal with every day.

[stik]

When I read your post, what I saw you saying was, "I have a student who needs help. How do I get help for this student?" I think you might already know the answer to that question.

It sounds like you need to start the wheels moving for a 504/IEP. Who do you contact to start an evaluation at your school?

I teach high school, which is, of course, very different. However, I have seen a couple situations at my school that really emphasize that discussing specific students online is really not a good road to go down. No one here can evaluate this little boy or provide him with services.

I hope you have some creative plans and distractions for this evening so you can face your class tomorrow feeling recharged and refreshed.

[angelandmisha]

I second the suggestion to make a referral for an evaluation. Then you can all see what the results suggest. He may just need some sort if different environment or he may in fact have ADHD.

I taught second grade for several years and then became a reading specialist and taught in a very low SES school. I'm not familiar with Becky Bailey so I'm not sure what all you've done. But, in my experience it might be helpful to try a few of these ideas:

First, have you talked with him about his behavior and what the expectations are in the classroom? It can help to have ongoing one on one conversations with him about these ideas. Is he friends with anyone in your class who could be a sort of mentor/buddy for him and help remind him of what he's supposed to be doing? You could have a class meeting and talk about how it makes other people feel when he acts that way. Sometimes hearing that others don't want to play with you when you act certain ways can help a student understand the implications of his behavior better than an adult saying it- this approach may not work for everyone- I realize it could get touchy, you'll just have to judge your students and see how you think
that would work.

Is there an older student, say a 4th or 5th grader, who maybe needs practice reading who could come in and be his buddy and read to him each day or several times a week?

Have you tried assigning him special tasks so he feels responsible and special?
Any idea what his diet is like? Perhaps you could try providing(or requesting from parents) a special snack that might help him calm down and focus more.

What about his sleep? Can you ask him about that- he may not be getting enough sleep and may be acting this way to stay awake.

What sort of recess schedule do you have? Is he better with more physical activity?

Can you have him run errands for you and the classroom? In and out of class-maybe he could help set out materials or take attendance to the office.

Have you talked to your school counselor? Do they have any suggestions?

And lastly, I would suggest starting to document everything you do. Make a running list of his behaviors with time included as well as what modifications you are trying. You may begin to see a pattern develop and I think
it will be helpful for use in your referral and in talking with his parents. I know that many of the patents of my students were way harsher than what I thought necessary and because of that I tried to deal with most behaviors in the classroom without getting their parents involved, but it seems like trying to talk with the patents and ask them what they've found that works would be useful. I think they should also be informed of the ongoing nature if the problem so they're not totally surprised when you make a referral to see if he qualifies for any services. They may be as at their wits end as you are and would welcome an evaluation that might help
figure out how to improve their son's behavior.

Good luck! This can be a really difficult time if year and I know how hard it is to have one super disruptive child in your class- and they're never absent either.

[shanniesue2]

Thank you all for the replies. I was really afraid that bringing up ADHD and medication for behavior issues would get some judgemental replies. I really just want to help. My administration is aware of the situation and I will be working with the counselor to try and figure out some strategies.

I wrote that post this morning just before leaving for work and after I posted it I felt the need to come back and list some of his positive qualities. He is fairly bright. He's funny. He can be very personable. And he's very enthusiastic. I really think that he could be very successful if we could figure something out for him.

Anyway, thank you all for the input and support.

[LynnS6]

A couple of quick thoughts:
DEFINITELY ask for a special ed evaluation/observation of this child. Not only does he sound like he has impulse control issues, he sounds like he doesn't have a great sense of where his body is in space and of his impact on others.

Second, this is the discipline system our school uses and it's great: Positive Behavior Interventions & Supports http://www.pbis.org/. It works for kids with lots of different needs.

When ds was in 1st grade, he had a student who had impulse control issues. I don't know what exactly the issue was, since this was filtered through ds and his playing school at home. BUT what I do know is that the teacher wore a tag that was red on one side and green on the other. When this child was doing something he was not supposed to do, she turned it to red. That was a quiet, visual signal for him to stop and regroup. If you could give him a quiet spot for him to take a 'time out' (as they were originally intended, which is a time to regroup and calm down), that might help.

Other visual signals might help him as well. Maybe he can help you make a visual depiction of the classroom rules. A visual sign for when it's his turn to talk.

The final thought is that this child has some major sensory needs. Incorporating more sensory activities into your routine might help him (and as a side benefit, it'll be good for your other kids too!) Some recommended reading (OK, I know you don't have a lot of time, so I'll try to list these in priority):

Sensory Processing and Self Regulation for Teachers (a Word Document by Dr. Michael Cheng in Ottawa, CA). A nice, quick overview

Sensory Integration Info for Families (also a word document to download by Dr. Micahel Cheng)

Sensational Kids -- my favorite book on the subject. I'd focus on the chapters on under-sensitivity - it gives some nice strategies to try.

Arnie and His School Tools: Simple Sensory Solutions that Build Success

Helping Hyperactive Kids -- a Sensory Integration Approach (I haven't read this, but it sounds good and on target for your needs)

[PikkuMyy]

Originally Posted by justKate

I have no experience with this, but as a parent, i might be off-put by the suggestion that my child had ADHD. I would be less off-put (and more concerned) if I were approached with teachers' concerns that she needed to learn a "different way" or had sensory issues that made it hard for her to be in a classroom setting.

Good luck. I'm sure this is hard for you to deal with every day.

Asking for an evaluation isn't the same as suggesting to a parent that the child has ADHD. It means saying that somethings in the classroom aren't working for the child and you want some assistance in making the classroom a better place for him to learn.