omfg im sooooooo pissed - Page 2

[KimberlyD0]

Originally Posted by SanJosemama

It's as complicated as you want it to be. If you want to make it easy, make a decision to not vaccinate her again, for anything. There are a lot of educated parents who have put many, many hours of research into vaccines, who have decided to completely stop vaccinating. You do not need to finish any shots.

Practice saying, "No vaccines today" before you see the doctor again. Does her father have the legal right to make medical decisions for her? If not, don't worry about convincing him. You could even tell him she got the vaccines, if he doesn't have a legal right to access the medical records.

If you decide to skip some or all vaccines, your life will be easier if you do not discuss that with anyone in real life. It's nobody's business but yours.

There are also MANY who are very well educated who make the choice to deley or vax on schedual. The vaccine issue is complex and there is a lot of conflicting information on both sides, there is a lot of biases on both side. Someone who doesn't vaccinate for whatever reason is going to support not vaxing, someone who does vax will say vaccinate. In the end you need to make your own educated choice, not a choice on emotions alone, or something your pushed into, but a well thought and researched approch.

I am a VERY firm believer in doing ones OWN research.

I would say you and your partner need to sit down and talk about this. He needs to be able to voice WHY he feels this way, you need to voice why you feel how you do, then you need to educate yourselves together. Its not about who's right or wrong, but whats right for your ENTIRE family.

Plus if you feel this strongly you'll want the support of science, and information behind you so you can stand behind that choice and not appear to be reacting from fear alone. Its hard to respect the choices of someone who is not researched in a topic and reacts from fear. That means for BOTH sides.

[Turquesa]

It's grossly unfair that you got caught off guard at that appointment. You and your DH both have the noble intention of doing what's best for your baby. You need to hash this issue out and be on the same page at your appointments. Emmeline provided an excellent primer for a discussion with your DH, Anielasmommy.

Originally Posted by Emmeline II

It can be difficult with a first child because people may pressure you to do something because "you don't know anything yet"; you can always vaccinate later but you cannot take them out once they have been given.

This was precisely my experience with my first! It's been quite liberating to have a second baby. I've gained more confidence to draw some boundaries and trust my gut.

The trick is to find a provider like my own (LOTS of word of mouth, and post in Find Your Tribe) who respects parental autonomy in this matter.

Originally Posted by SanJosemama

If you decide to skip some or all vaccines, your life will be easier if you do not discuss that with anyone in real life. It's nobody's business but yours.

AMEN!

Originally Posted by MyBoysBlue

In Canada Hep B is given to preteens. Grade 5 or 6. I'm guessing it's incase they end up engaging in risky behaviour. If you want Hep B for your baby you actually have to get your doctor to agree that your child is at risk and needs it in order to get health care to cover the cost.

Oh wow! Imagine how much the U.S. could save if we adopted this commonsense approach. As you're probably aware, there's a debate raging here about health care costs and how to cut them. Unfortunately, our bought-off politicians would probably rather see Facism take hold than anything resembling the Canadian model of health care.

[emma1325]

Originally Posted by anielasmommy09

so i just read the hep b is not recommended for newborns anymore but shes already had two should i bother with the third? her doc obvs did not know babies shouldnt get that... i feel like i've messed up really bad. i got pregnant by surprise at 21. i dont have a mom so no guidance there. i read alot of things on what to do for your baby. i had a drug free birth for her and i wear her and do everything i feel she needs but i never even thought of vaccines! now i feel horrible. when i try to read up on them it all looks like gibberish to me....idk how to understand these things. i'll check out the websites above to see if i can figure it out lol thanks again guys

No reason to get the 3rd hep b just because she already got 2 of them.

My experience: My daughter got all 3 hep b shots in the series. Then later, when we had titers run on most diseases, she wasn't even immune to hep b. So we took the risks of the vaccine for nothing.

AND, young children have very, very little chance of even coming in contact with hep b. Unless you or your partner is already infected with the disease, I wouldn't even consider it.

[emma1325]

Originally Posted by KimberlyD0

Plus if you feel this strongly you'll want the support of science, and information behind you so you can stand behind that choice and not appear to be reacting from fear alone. Its hard to respect the choices of someone who is not researched in a topic and reacts from fear. That means for BOTH sides.

Science doesn't truly support either side, pro or anti-vax, since there exists no unbiased, long term, wide-scale studies comparing vaccinated vs. non-vaccinated individuals. The studies that do exist, on both sides, are weak.


I can understand how someone might come to the decision to selectively vaccinate after researching the available information, but I cannot fathom any truly researched and sane person doing every shot on the CDC schedule.

My feelings on the issue is that since there is no proof that vaccines are safe (through valid long-term research) the only option for my family is to default to the biological norm, which is a non-vaccinated state. Same reason I wouldn't formula feed or circumcise.

ETA: Kimberly, I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing with anything you said, only jumping off from your statement regarding scientific support.

[MountainMamaGC]

Originally Posted by MyBoysBlue

In Canada Hep B is given to preteens. Grade 5 or 6. I'm guessing it's incase they end up engaging in risky behaviour. If you want Hep B for your baby you actually have to get your doctor to agree that your child is at risk and needs it in order to get health care to cover the cost.

In BC they now give HepB to newborns. Its in the rotation now and I imagine the rest of Canada will follow.

[KimberlyD0]

Originally Posted by emma1325

Science doesn't truly support either side, pro or anti-vax, since there exists no unbiased, long term, wide-scale studies comparing vaccinated vs. non-vaccinated individuals. The studies that do exist, on both sides, are weak.


I can understand how someone might come to the decision to selectively vaccinate after researching the available information, but I cannot fathom any truly researched and sane person doing every shot on the CDC schedule.

My feelings on the issue is that since there is no proof that vaccines are safe (through valid long-term research) the only option for my family is to default to the biological norm, which is a non-vaccinated state. Same reason I wouldn't formula feed or circumcise.

ETA: Kimberly, I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing with anything you said, only jumping off from your statement regarding scientific support.

Hi you know one now. When I found out what my DD#2 has and learned what HER risks were for not being vaxed we vaxed her. Not worth her life to take the gamble.

What I ment with the science though was that you need, at the very least, sound like you know what your talking about, not use scare tactics or second hand stories (for both sides)

ALL the science I've seen supports MY choice for my children, my interpretation of that science is just different them some, especially here lol.

[mysticmomma]

I just want to say, always come to your partner with the intention of finding a solution, not being right. Saying something like, I know you have dd's best interests at heart, adn I hope you realize I do too. We need to remember that and talk about this and come up with a solution we both feel good about. making a rushed decisions is not cool. also, ememline (or some such... love her info don't knwo her SN) will come along with a good jumping off point. Find out which diseases/vaxes are coming up at the next appointment. Then talk about each disease and the vaccine for it together. don't shove a bunch of research in his face and expect him to read it. men just gnerally aren't wired that way. it's not for lack of caring it's just how they work.

[emma1325]

Originally Posted by KimberlyD0

Hi you know one now. When I found out what my DD#2 has and learned what HER risks were for not being vaxed we vaxed her. Not worth her life to take the gamble.

What I ment with the science though was that you need, at the very least, sound like you know what your talking about, not use scare tactics or second hand stories (for both sides)

ALL the science I've seen supports MY choice for my children, my interpretation of that science is just different them some, especially here lol.

There was a gamble in vaccinating her as well. Not expressing disagreement with your decision, only making sure that is clear. I still have a hard time believing any truly researched or sane person could do every vaccine on the schedule, but apparently you have and you seem sane.

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by AnnR33

What doctors don't tell you about vaccinations....not sure of the author

I believe you meant that old friend of ours....Dr. Mendelsohn who wrote
How To Raise A Healthy Child In Spite Of Your Doctor - a very good read!

[momofmine]

Originally Posted by mysticmomma

always come to your partner with the intention of finding a solution, not being right.

I just wanted to say, thank you for this good advice, mysticmomma. This is good to remember for all our interactions in general, with our spouse, our kids, anyone really. I am writing this down on an index card and putting it on my fridge right now. This just really spoke to me right now and I needed reminding of it.

To the OP, I can say that my DH would likely do whatever the doctors say do, if it was all up to him. But, I'm the mom, and he leaves these decisions up to me. I would do whatever you have to do to get along with him and get him to work with you and not against you. If you set it up into an argument, it may cause him to dig in his heels more. Not saying you should go along with anything or compromise in any way, just that if you can make it so that he knows you are both on the same side, as PP said above, then he may be more likely to leave it up to you.

If that doesn't work, I would put it in his lap and say, "when you can bring me the proof that whichever vaccine you are debating is safe and effective, then we can talk more".

[KimberlyD0]

Originally Posted by emma1325

There was a gamble in vaccinating her as well. Not expressing disagreement with your decision, only making sure that is clear. I still have a hard time believing any truly researched or sane person could do every vaccine on the schedule, but apparently you have and you seem sane.

The chance of harm was minimal. I've got nearly 5 years of personal research to back me on my choices. Calling someone insaine or uneducated for choosing differently is ignorance in itself. Of course I am sane, and VERY well educated. I also have a child who CAN die from something as simple as the Chicken Pox, and who did nearly die from Rota virus (can't spell it right) I watched my child on deaths door more then once in the first 18 months of her life. I choose to vaccinate her knowing it increased her chances at living. For the record she never even had so much as a small fever or any other type of reactions to the vaccines. I would no sooner tell a non vaxer that they should change their views, but some respect needs to be shown to BOTH sides.

Originally Posted by Gitti

I believe you meant that old friend of ours....Dr. Mendelsohn who wrote
How To Raise A Healthy Child In Spite Of Your Doctor - a very good read!

My only concern is the age of that book, and some of the UNSAFE recomendations in it, like giving a baby or child Asprin I had a real hard time taking the book seriously with such dangerous advice right there.

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by KimberlyD0

My only concern is the age of that book, and some of the UNSAFE recomendations in it, like giving a baby or child Asprin I had a real hard time taking the book seriously with such dangerous advice right there.

Dr. Mendelsohn does not recommend giving anyone aspirin in How To Raise A Healthy Child In Spite Of Your Doctor, and speaks to the risks of using aspirin that he first became aware of when he witnessed aspirin intoxication as a resident in 1955.

[KimberlyD0]

Originally Posted by Emmeline II

Dr. Mendelsohn does not recommend giving anyone aspirin in How To Raise A Healthy Child In Spite Of Your Doctor, and speaks to the risks of using aspirin that he first became aware of when he witnessed aspirin intoxication as a resident in 1955.

Not in the copy I have. Unless its an earlier publication and he's since changed that aspect of the book.

[ammiga]

Originally Posted by Emmeline II

Dr. Mendelsohn does not recommend giving anyone aspirin in How To Raise A Healthy Child In Spite Of Your Doctor, and speaks to the risks of using aspirin that he first became aware of when he witnessed aspirin intoxication as a resident in 1955.

I have an older used copy of this book, and he does NOT recommend giving aspirin, or any other fever reducers. This is the book that first introduced me the concept of not using those things, because it certainly wasn't from our pediatrician.

[member234098]

He does not recommend asprin OR acetaminophen ever. He believed that fever had a purpose.

He wrote that book after ten years of warnings about asprin and Reye's syndrome. He would never have done that. He warned about acetaminophen constantly after the 1982 poisonings that occurred connected with Tylenol® and potassium cyanide. http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/t...ers/index.html

He did recommend a drop of whiskey topically for teething pain. Is that what you object to?

[cinderella08]

I'm so sorry you were pressured!!

Be persistent with your DH and SHOW him the research and statistics! I'm young too, I am 21 and have a 1yr old DD and I am 5wks pregnant. My DD has been fully vaxed through 9m and she actually has her 1yr appt tomorrow and won't be getting ANY shots at all. I shamefully didn't do the research adequately and after a severely traumatic birth where I almost lost my life, I wasn't in a state of mind to fight with DH over vaccines. Since then, I have researched my butt off and talked with DH and we've decide to skip quite a few, and delay the rest until right before her entry into school at age 5.

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by KimberlyD0

Not in the copy I have. Unless its an earlier publication and he's since changed that aspect of the book.

The copyright for my book is 1984 and he has been dead for several years now, so, no changes.

I checked every reference made to aspirin in his book and he talks about what other doctors recommend, or what is typically recommended, but does not, himself, recommend aspirin. Support of giving aspirin to children and infants would result in a completely different book.

[emma1325]

Originally Posted by KimberlyD0

Not in the copy I have. Unless its an earlier publication and he's since changed that aspect of the book.

I think you're mistaken. Check your copy. I have a very early copy and he stresses to NOT use aspirin.

[emma1325]

[QUOTE=KimberlyD0;14824547]The chance of harm was minimal. I've got nearly 5 years of personal research to back me on my choices. Calling someone insaine or uneducated for choosing differently is ignorance in itself.



Sorry, it's how I feel. You can think it ignorant if you'd like. I also find it hard to believe any truly researched and sane person could reject breastfeeding and instead use formula, or circumcise an infant for non-medical reasons.

Vaccines assault the immune system. To give them to an already vulnerable child, IMO, is asking for trouble. Again, JMO. I've researched for more than 5 years as well, and I've seen firsthand what vaccines can do to a child's brain and body.

[ema-adama]

perhaps Kimberly read the start of the first chapter from How to Raise a Healthy Child?

on pg 2 he says:

If you reach the doctor instead of his answering service, his response is predictable. Chances are he'll ask, "Did you take his temperature?" Then, whatever your response, "Well, I don't think it is anything to worry about. Give him an aspirin and bring him to the office in the morning"

This hypothetical advice, from a generic doctor. An example of what parents were told when they called the doctor at night with a sick child. This was NOT the kind of advice Mendlesohn gave out.

Throughout his book, I have only read about how common it was for pediatricians to prescribe aspirin and how wrong that was.

On pg 115 - he explicitly goes into the dangers of apirin for the treatment of influenza.

on pg 138 - he writes about how he is appalled by the routine prescription of aspirin......

Anyway, not to get too OCD about it, but I really found no evidence of his endorsing the use of aspirin in his book How to Raise a Healthy Child. I own the 1984 copy. As far as I can tell, there are no other publications.

Kimberly, I appreciate your passion for putting the other side of the debate on the table. Obviously every family is making the best choice they can with the information they have. I do find it hard to understand someone following the CDC schedule if they have have thoroughly looked at the evidence put forward by both pro and anti vaccine groups. Of course, someone might look at each vaccine on the CDC schedule and find independent reasons why they would want those vaccines on schedule for their child. I am guessing such a parent would choose every available vaccine, no matter how many.

But just because the CDC says 'get these vaccines' - that is a hard reason for me to swallow.

I seriously have no problem with you of anyone following the CDC schedule. I don't vaccinate, and I have my reasons why. I have gotten beyond the point where I think there is one right answer in every situation. If you feel comfortable sharing your specific reasoning for following the CDC schedule I would be interested. Not to debate you, but to understand how we have managed to look at (what I am assuming is) the same information and come to such a different decision.