Describe your non religious "higher power" to me.

[chipper26]

How did you come to the conclusion? I'm curious as to how a "higher power" fits into the scheme of things. I don't know where I am on this. I think I'm an agnostic right now, but I am having doubts about a higher power. I'd just like to read some thoughts to give me something to think about. I'm not talking about a Christian God here ... been there, done that.

[javilu]

i actually have come to realize that i do believe in "god" (but not necessarily a "christian god"), but for a long while, i was in the "there is something more" camp. until just a couple of weeks ago, actually, i was an agnostic of the "maybe there is a god, but what does that even *mean*?" variety, so i'll speak to how i understood the world for the past several years.

i never really perceived something "higher" than humanity, but rather, something within it as well as a part of the universe. it's both something i sense (albeit not with my senses...if that makes...sense?) and something i see all around me. in the beauty and order of nature (and definitely in evolution...that stuff just BLOWS MY MIND), i feel it in music (that total chill that runs through me sometimes), the warmth of my mother's hug (and i don't just mean the actual temperature, i mean the love i feel, even physically), the wonder and amazement i have for the universe. it's not a conclusion i've reached so much as a process that is ongoing. it's, like...there is "something more" than what we see with our eyes, and hear with our ears and taste with our tongues and so forth...to me, anyway. there is something else that links us and flows through us. hormones and heartrates and molecules and their buzzing atoms are amazingly powerful things, but they are also a part of something...else.

that's how it's been for me, anyway. i also tie my "beliefs" largely to my belief in my soul. i feel like it's also a part of that "something" and it is the aspect of me that brings me...or allows me to experience, i guess, the deepest sorrows and greatest joys.

[chaoticzenmom]

well said Puffnstuff. I do not believe in God, but I do believe in an alternate kind of reality. Stuff we can feel, but can't see. What we know, but don't know. Reality is tricky stuff. Also, I believe that we all, as living things, share the energy of the Universe. When you add positive energy, the universe is better for it. Negative energy hurts the universe and comes back to you negatively.

[Theia]

I agree with puffnstuff and chaoticzenmom.

I feel that everything is connected; actions, living things, and inanimate objects. Even when things are completely messed up, somehow it is completely as it should be. All of these connections, objects and actions are guided by something. A god/goddess is the best descriptive word for me. I think that to attempt to understand even the tiniest bit of how this all comes together is WAY beyond our little brains computing compacity (and beyond our strongest computers too). But to me, there has to be something more out there, something that created what we observe in the first place. Then you get into the creation of the creator . Schrodinger's cat, and the double slit experiment comes to mind though. In the veda's it's the knower, known, and process of knowing. So with those things in mind, something must be observed in order to exist as we know it. We are all god, and god is knowing itself through us. I hope that makes sense. It's hard to put these kinds of beliefs into words because in many ways for me they are feelings.

hth

[javilu]

i agree with you, theia, and it is definitely hard to put into words.

[ThoughtFullMama]

Well. I liked the book The Physics of Immortality. It helped me sort through a LOT. I basically think there is one/many benevolent beings out there and they live in a sort of Utopian society that we will join one day, through death. They've been around for a very long time and have had billions of years to adapt, create and grow as a society and now they watch over others and somehow bring us 'back' after we die (or our essence or soul, at least) and we then join them/it in the Utopia.

That sounds kind of cheesy written out like that, but the book explains it much better. And I've added my own ideas into the mix too

[mommyshoppinghabit]

Some books that have given me much food for thought:
The Fall, by Steve Taylor
Dr. Quantum's Little Book of Big Ideas and other works by Fred Alan Wolf
The first book has an entire chapter on how the very notion that there is a god, separate from us, somehow looking down on us happened relatively recently, and that before "the Fall" humans felt at one with the whole universe and felt that the life force was in everything.
The seconde book is a compilation of quotes from the author's other books that go to the very pith of how, scientifically, and specifically quantum physically, the universe is more full of divine energy than most people ever fathomed. For me, when I hear people proudly labeling themselves as atheist because they believe in logic and science, I have to laugh because the very basis of everything is on the quantum level which is illogical (a word?) and quite beautiful. Einsten, the father of modern quantum physics, had a lot to say on the subject of god.

[Encinalien]

Crazy Sounding Athestic Spirituality

Supposedly heaven is on a plane where there's no division, where the part of each of us that is pure exists togeather, creating "god" (an acronym for "geneology of the divine"). Supposedly there is a silver cord from the base of our skull that goes to our spirit body which resides in the "astral plane" and a silver cord that goes from our spirit into heaven, where we are all one. Our conscious mind can travel up and down these cords unless a cord has been cut (?)
also suppposedly we have in our DNA access to all the experiences of our ancestors. Also, supposedly, since the part of us that is god exists in heaven which is outside of time and space we have access to "memories" of events from the future, a memory is semi-time traveling in our minds- we should be able to "remember" the future as well.
I've heard similar stories from a "caballistic priest", a few "pagans", and a "Druid" (although he claimed to be a druid it's been argued that true Druids would have made "Human sacrifice"). Ya know, I don't really know. I don't follow any of those three religions. But I heard this same description again in a Quantum Physics video. I've heard this description from these four various sources.
I'm really not sure what I believe, this is just the same story I've heard a few times in my life in a few different places.

I was going to make a thread for this, but "higher power without a god" is a fine thread to add it to, and I'm shy.

[mommyshoppinghabit]

I wish the spirituality forum had more threads like this instead of the usual religious ones. I want to start threads in here, but I'm half lazy, half intimidated by the sheer quantity of posts about one particular religious ceremony, rite of passage, religious formality, etc. There I said it.

[chipper26]

Thanks for the replies. This is all very, very interesting. Some of these thoughts, feeling and/or notions I've had too. The feeling that we are all connected in some way beyond our understanding resonates with me. I definitely want to read some of these books.

Here's a problem though. If we have a soul or a spirit and will someday move beyond into another realm because there is more to us than a physical body, then what about animals? If you believe in evolution then we are just the most intelligent of the animal species, so why would we be the only ones to "move on"? We came from something much more simple than what we are now. We are also just a tiny little blip on the timeline of the earth, important only in our own minds, probably.

Does my dog have feelings? I think so. I know animals are not aware that they are thinking and aren't metacognitive, but isn't that just a result of lower intelligence?

Also, when someone has a brain disorder or injury, like Alzheimer's, what makes them who they are seems to disappear. Is the soul really reflective of our "personality" or are we just what our brains make us to be? Aren't we just thinking that there is more to us when it is sadly just chemicals reacting in our brain to make us feel and think?

I'm not sure if I am explaining myself well. These ideas about animals and the brian get to a central question for me about something like a soul that is part of us but beyond our physical self. I think that idea links to a god or a higher power.

Just some random thoughts...

[Theia]

Originally Posted by chipper26

Thanks for the replies. This is all very, very interesting. Some of these thoughts, feeling and/or notions I've had too. The feeling that we are all connected in some way beyond our understanding resonates with me. I definitely want to read some of these books.

Here's a problem though. If we have a soul or a spirit and will someday move beyond into another realm because there is more to us than a physical body, then what about animals? If you believe in evolution then we are just the most intelligent of the animal species, so why would we be the only ones to "move on"? We came from something much more simple than what we are now. We are also just a tiny little blip on the timeline of the earth, important only in our own minds, probably.

Does my dog have feelings? I think so. I know animals are not aware that they are thinking and aren't metacognitive, but isn't that just a result of lower intelligence?

Also, when someone has a brain disorder or injury, like Alzheimer's, what makes them who they are seems to disappear. Is the soul really reflective of our "personality" or are we just what our brains make us to be? Aren't we just thinking that there is more to us when it is sadly just chemicals reacting in our brain to make us feel and think?

I'm not sure if I am explaining myself well. These ideas about animals and the brian get to a central question for me about something like a soul that is part of us but beyond our physical self. I think that idea links to a god or a higher power.

Just some random thoughts...

I don't have any answers really. You have some good questions, I wonder about those things myself. On animals, I had one of my spiritual teachers say that they have group souls. Like each animal has a soul that is part of a larger group that they are bound to. She also said that some animals are different, like dolphins. Dolphins are so advanced that 7 souls reside in each dolphin. I don't remember much else of what she said about all of that, except that animals are here as helpers for us. Or with reincarnation some believe that you evolve from the lowest being to the highest. Not sure what the lowest is exactly, but we generally think that human is highest I think it is the Jains that believe to not kill any living thing more advanced than plant life, partly because that insect might be a deceased relative and cutting the life short doesn't allow it to work out it's karma so it slow's it's journey back to human-ness.

And with our brains and injury/disease, that's a hard one too. When my grandmother was dying, it was first and incorrectly diagnosed as alzheimers because she was not spending much time in the now, didn't recognize family etc. My Mom (her daughter) believed she had went to the time when she was happiest. Now I'm sure my Mom meant she was living in her memories and stuck in her mind, but like the other poster brought up, technically we should have the same access to our future as we do our past. So I tend to think that when someone has a traumatic brain injury or disease that they are traveling in memories or possibilities.

There's still the whole nature vs nurture thing to consider which I believe is different for each person because we all have our own genetics to respond with. It's even been found that identical twins end up having slightly different genetics over years due to imperfect cell division. Coma's are a good example. Where do they go? I hope that they are transcending, that they are moving effortlessly through the energy that is our divine creative source. If that is the case then they could be in any possible world or time. Our brain is just a bunch of chemistry floating in water and other stuff. It's important as the control center of our central nervous system which is what takes in all the experiences for the brain to process. I think it may be related to our soul only because our bodies keep us bound. The physical body keeps us from having easy access to travel freely among possibilities. So therefore we are stuck here to experience this. And when we experience and learn to transcend all the crud we think is important as humans, we move closer to our divine creative source. It's maybe what we need to keep us in the now, because when we are completely in the now we are only acting, not thinking. It's sometimes called "being in the gap". You see it when an athlete or musician is doing whatever they are expert at and suddenly for them it just flows, and no effort is involved. No effort is involved because they have went beyond thinking and are simply acting. They transcended and are in close contact with the divine source so therefore their actions are what we describe as perfect. It happens to all of us though.

Bah! Enough of this ramble. Hope I didn't bore anyone too much. I love threads like this too. I like reading what everyone writes. It's also fun because there are no definitive single answers. We can't simply point and say, " Well <insert spiritual text, leader, founder> says it is like this, and that is it.", or "To be part of this <insert spiritual order>, you must believe it is like that.". It's all supposing, creatively reaching and feeling things out. What feels good to me? What brings me comfort and peace? And it can be a completely individual thing that no one else can tell you is wrong or impossible. To me that is very powerful, forming a personal religion.

eta: I just remembered something about the Veda's separation of brain vs mind. We often interchange the terms and confuse them for the same thing, but they aren't. I'll try to remember exactly what the separation is.

[javilu]

i think of our souls as a part of a larger energy, and that includes animals, people who can't express themselves, babies, maybe even trees and such. i think this energy permeates every living thing, and we are all a part of it. when we die, that connection continues, and in some ways, we can be even closer to each other in that state. some of my strongest connections are to nature and to non-humans, and they are something that transcends even life as we know it now. at the same time, i really want to enjoy the here and the now and the physical realm of experience. i think my soul delights in that, too. in music and in dancing and in so forth. i don't think there is a very distinct "divide" between the spiritual and the physical...i think it's a spectrum, or maybe more like a concurrency. i like this thread, too. i do believe in god, but that's just because that's my name for the energy - i don't think we have to call it that, or anything at all. i do think it is better to recognize the spiritual/energy/connectedness than not, so that we can engage that element of ourselves (like, i need to let my own spiritual side "live" as much as i let my practical, physical side live - not that they are separate, but i can't let things like work or money or school be everything to me, if they don't let my "soul sing"). i am intrigued by the thought that string theory or whatever might incorporate spirituality, but i don't really need scientific explanations or proof for what i've experienced, even if i can't explain or prove it. i know it, in my heart, i see and feel it in a hug, in a song, in a dance, in a leaf, and so on and so on and so on....

[Encinalien]

Huh. I didn't know that was the String Theory.
Keep this conversation going and I'll gladly sub
this thread.

The second half of that was hell. We're in hell. It ain't forever and it ain't that bad. We're burning right now. We're burning oxygen. Burning up in a lake of corrosive oxygen. All life here is made up of carbon, with the atomic number of 6 electrons 6 protons and 6 neutrons. 666 baby. And the DNA strand is the serpants coil. Yep. We're in hell. It ain't forever. And it ain't that bad.

[lotusdebi]

Puffnstuff said it well. I consider myself a pantheist. I had a series of spiritual experiences in my early 20's that pointed me towards Taoism and Buddhism. I continue to read to find out what expresses my beliefs best. Right now, I'm enjoying the book Eat, Pray, Love. I have a hard time using the term "God" for what I feel, since I was raised in this society that mostly sees "God" as external, separate, even judgmental, and that's not what I experience.
FWIW, I was an atheist until I was 20. Then agnostic. I'm constantly searching, understanding, and trying to figure out how to practice in the midst of the chaos of my life.

ETA: By "practice" I mean meditate. That, for me, is the best way to commune with... myself. God within. Whatever you want to call it.

[Theia]

Originally Posted by lotusdebi

Puffnstuff said it well. I consider myself a pantheist. I had a series of spiritual experiences in my early 20's that pointed me towards Taoism and Buddhism. I continue to read to find out what expresses my beliefs best. Right now, I'm enjoying the book Eat, Pray, Love. I have a hard time using the term "God" for what I feel, since I was raised in this society that mostly sees "God" as external, separate, even judgmental, and that's not what I experience.
FWIW, I was an atheist until I was 20. Then agnostic. I'm constantly searching, understanding, and trying to figure out how to practice in the midst of the chaos of my life.

ETA: By "practice" I mean meditate. That, for me, is the best way to commune with... myself. God within. Whatever you want to call it.

I loved Eat, Pray, Love.

My beliefs are a mix of science, buddhism, pagan, vedic and whatever else I happened to pick up along the way that felt good to me. Background was Christian as a child but was never able to pick it back up again once into adulthood. It was all way too judgmental in my experience (not slamming anyone who is Christian, just speaking of my personal experience). So for the past 10 years or so I've been heavily focused on my personal religion. I really like trying to find the basics of religions, esp. those that are older than 2000 years. I like to think that in the time of Buddha and before that while survival did take up much of a persons time, they also didn't have anything else to distract them from discovering very deep truths about themselves and the environment they lived in. To go spend decades in isolation meditating in a cave in a remote area isn't for everyone, but I'm grateful for the knowledge of the experiences those who did it have brought back.

I find my connection to god/source through nature and meditation. Although really it can be and has been through many different things. But those two things are what I turn to most when I actively seek that connection.

Also wanted to say I have mixed beliefs about hell. Mostly I tend towards it doesn't exist. If it must exist, then I think it only exists (really as does everything else) in ones mind. But at times I also think that because of the predominance of certain beliefs in our global society that we have created it here on Earth through global collective consciousness. But it's not bad. Just as there is no good. All simply is.

[Encinalien]

So, if that's the string theory, what's the opposing viewpoint? I tried to google it and skimming the info it looks like "the standard model" might be the opposing theory. And that is that everything is isolated and magnetic? I don't know. It's a lot to sift through alone. Does anybody just know the answer to this quiestion- what is the opposite of the string theory?
I could kind of see if the cells we pass around neutralize or deactivate before they're consumed by another body. Actually I remember a D&D game called "Changling" which used a substance called "glamour" to perform the magical acts. "glamour" was the indescript "stuff that life was made of" which it looks now according to the wikipedia was an alias for "dark energy". Trippy.
Awaiting your reply...

[Unity9]

Hi there,

You have some good questions!! I am a Baha'i; baha'i faith believes in onesness of God which means God has created everything and anything. There is no other God!
I don't want to make it long, but the followings are some the Baha'i writings:

copyrighted text removed by moderator

[Unity9]

Creation is like the sunlight; God is the sun. This light comes forth from the sun; that does not mean that the sun has become the light. The light emanates from the sun. Seek always to prove mysteries in the light of the rational mind. We must all become the light of this sun which is God; the light of the sun, the heat of the sun, the brilliancy of the sun, the bestowals of this sun.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, p. 108)

I am sorry about the long posts!

[Encinalien]

Chipper, it's a silly place to explore spiritual ideas, but there was a cheesy short-lived sitcom on tv called "Reaper.". It said that souls have a time limit on earth. If a reaper doesn't harvest them when it's time the soul goes bad. And not the girls gone wild, let's have a party and raise a little hell on earth kind of bad; they go bad like spoiled milk..ew.

Funny story about animals (I guess) yesterday a neighbor was skinning two freh deers. Ds walked over and was telling me look, look. So he was curious so I picked him up so he could see the faces (he was interested not upset and I didn't want him thinking it was a dog by just looking at the body, he's seen enough deer heads on the walls).
Anway they hung the deer from the ceiling and The deers when they're dead have their tongue hanging out. Ds squatted down and stuck his tongue back out at the deer and said "bye-bye". Ds didn't leave, the deer didn't leave. He was talking to the face, not the spirit. The deer wasn't leaving he was being skinned and chopped up. But it reminded me of what they taught in school about the native Americans praying to the deers to thank them for being dinner. My son was simply acknowledging what was happening and it looked very respectful.