Is it my place to comment on this, and if so how do I do it?? - Page 2

[Norasmomma]

I get that she needs a life, but the boy needs a parent more.


I have a 3 y/o and it is obvious when she doesn't sleep well it exacerbates everything, she acts out, grabs her brother etc....Doesn't this effect you too? I mean you are the one having to deal with this behavior making care for him more difficult. I'd say something, but in a way that would be constructive to all parties, let her mention "he's in a mood" or something like that.

He's 3.5 it's very hard for them to communicate their needs and he is doing the only thing he knows. Sounds like he's starved for attention from his mom how sad.

[oursweetboys]

Originally Posted by MamaChicken

My nanny has brought things up to me before - "your DS is a little crankier when your DH has to remind him (not so gently) about his chores" or "DD has some real behavior issues on the mornings you leave without waking her up first". Sometimes it is hard to hear, but I need the feedback or nothing would change.

The OP saying nothing and ignoring her instincts will not help anyone in this situation. Who knows, the mom may appreciate the insight, assuming it's presented in a gentle manner.

Originally Posted by darcytrue

I agree. She may take offense to it. A lot of moms are perfectly fine living life without their small children and leaving them with someone all the time and not connecting the fact that the child is upset when with the mother because she is away too often. There's nothing you can do about it, unfortunately.

Who cares if she takes offense to it? So should we only consider the feelings of the parent at the absolute exclusion of the child's?

Originally Posted by chinaKat

I guess a question you could ask yourself is, would you word your comment the same way if you knew the mom was spending those nights away from the child to work a second job, or to care for a sick relative?

What I'm getting at is that you want to be sure you're not being critical of her lifestyle choices, and that your only intent is to be sure that the child is getting enough sleep/time with mom.

How she spends her time is her business.

See no, I would not word the comment the same way under the circumstances you describe. And I don't think I should have to. There's a difference between what you offered as examples and the mom just going out. I have NO issue with a parent going out and having time to him/herself. It's very important. However, if the child is being obviously affected by it and the parent is oblivious, then yes, the OP should gently say something. Someone has to advocate for this young child.

Originally Posted by Norasmomma

I get that she needs a life, but the boy needs a parent more.
I have a 3 y/o and it is obvious when she doesn't sleep well it exacerbates everything, she acts out, grabs her brother etc....Doesn't this effect you too? I mean you are the one having to deal with this behavior making care for him more difficult. I'd say something, but in a way that would be constructive to all parties, let her mention "he's in a mood" or something like that.
He's 3.5 it's very hard for them to communicate their needs and he is doing the only thing he knows. Sounds like he's starved for attention from his mom how sad.

[minkleaf]

I'll admit I have no experience with daycare but I think it would be ok for the OP to mention something.

Originally Posted by HarperRose

Someone else suggested posing it in a question. "Have you noticed...?" I'd go with that the next time she brings it up. She says he's cranky and you say, "Yeah [nodding], have you noticed that it happens whenever you've been out the night before?"

But maybe instead of phrasing it about the mom 'it happens whenever you've been out the night before' phrase it about the kid 'it happens whenever he spends the night at aunties or with the babysitter'. That shifts the focus to what's going on with the kid rather than the mom, and let's her come up with the idea of him spending more time with her rather than her being told what to do.

[rhiandmoi]

Originally Posted by minkleaf

But maybe instead of phrasing it about the mom 'it happens whenever you've been out the night before' phrase it about the kid 'it happens whenever he spends the night at aunties or with the babysitter'. That shifts the focus to what's going on with the kid rather than the mom, and let's her come up with the idea of him spending more time with her rather than her being told what to do.

Plus it could have nothing to do with him missing his mom. Maybe he has sugar late at his aunts or they keep him over stimulated there.

[eepster]

Originally Posted by rhiandmoi

Plus it could have nothing to do with him missing his mom. Maybe he has sugar late at his aunts or they keep him over stimulated there.

That was why I said to only bring it up, if you would be offering to help her with things like setting up a routine with the babysitter/aunt. They may not really listen to her about a schedule, but would listen to an "authority," such as his child care provider. Especially if you wrote something "official" up together, for them to follow.

[phrogger]

I have a home childcare and it is certified through the military. I mention that because it seems that through the military, there are a lot more ongoing requirements. I have to go to monthly trainings and I to particate in extra educational courses etc. So my point in saying this is, we have monitors, trainers, directors etc. all on us, watching everything we do. One of the things we are trained on is how to talk to parents about stuff just like this. It is not only our job, but it is our moral obligation to put the kids FIRST. And by doing that, we have to do a lot of deductive reasoning and figure out what is the cause of many behaviors. If we figure out that a lot of negative behaviors are because of the parents actions like this, we have to address the parents, or sometimes even call in the family advocacy to address the parents.

This isn't an issue of trying to point out areas where the parents are failing, but instead to educate the parents on areas they might not be seeing because we are with the kids so often. A lot of the time the parents just need the education, and they will make the changes. The kids deserve that much from us. And frankly, lets admit, if the kids are happy at home, they are going to be happier for us.

[Norasmomma]

Originally Posted by phrogger

I have a home childcare and it is certified through the military. I mention that because it seems that through the military, there are a lot more ongoing requirements. I have to go to monthly trainings and I to particate in extra educational courses etc. So my point in saying this is, we have monitors, trainers, directors etc. all on us, watching everything we do. One of the things we are trained on is how to talk to parents about stuff just like this. It is not only our job, but it is our moral obligation to put the kids FIRST. And by doing that, we have to do a lot of deductive reasoning and figure out what is the cause of many behaviors. If we figure out that a lot of negative behaviors are because of the parents actions like this, we have to address the parents, or sometimes even call in the family advocacy to address the parents.

This isn't an issue of trying to point out areas where the parents are failing, but instead to educate the parents on areas they might not be seeing because we are with the kids so often. A lot of the time the parents just need the education, and they will make the changes. The kids deserve that much from us. And frankly, lets admit, if the kids are happy at home, they are going to be happier for us.

That was exactly my point too. Regardless of if it's sugar, bedtime rituals at aunties or mom not spending enough time with him-the boy is obviously unhappy in the current situation. He's trying to communicate that with the only tools he's got due to his age, it needs to be addressed in a constructive way for all parties.

[DaughterOfKali]

I used to work in a day care center as well as being a teacher in private schools.

When we noticed recurring aggressive or clingy/crying behavior, we would ask the parent if she/he could work with us on trying to find the cause/solution. Ask if the parent would like to set up a meeting with you. That puts it in her/his court. I find that once you do that and the parent is willing, the cause will often be brought up by the parent. Or you can hint towards it and see if she picks it up and mentions it.
If she/he seems completely clueless as to the cause, you can suggest things she/he can do with child in the evenings that may help the child feel more secure.

[PreggieUBA2C]

Perhaps I am naive, but it seems to me that if a parent invites another person to care for his/her child while s/he's away, this parent has invited the care-giver into agreed upon mutual concern for the child.

If the parent doesn't trust the care-giver to understand and communicate even with tough issues, then why on earth would s/he be okay with leaving his/her child with that care-giver?

So saying, free communication is part of the deal, is it not? How can any issue that directly affects the child be 'off-limits' or 'none-of-your-business'?

To whom is the care-giver primarily giving the care? The parent or the child? If the parent, then it would seem that open communication is warranted and necessary. If the child, then no question, it is warranted and necessary. If both, then it's the same.

Why would talking about the well-being of the child ever be off-limits or taboo or unprofessional or anything of the like???

[just_lily]

OP here. Thanks for the thoughts - keep them coming if you have more to add. Definitely a lot of food for thought.

Originally Posted by chinaKat

I guess a question you could ask yourself is, would you word your comment the same way if you knew the mom was spending those nights away from the child to work a second job, or to care for a sick relative?

What I'm getting at is that you want to be sure you're not being critical of her lifestyle choices, and that your only intent is to be sure that the child is getting enough sleep/time with mom.

How she spends her time is her business.

Interestingly enough there was a situation a while back where this was the case. L's grandmother was very ill, had an extended hospital stay for many weeks, and subsequently passed away. Mom was spending most evenings at the hospital and her friends were providing childcare for her.

L acted much the same as I am seeing now when he is left with a sitter, if not more so because he was missing Mom and dealing with something scary happening with grandma that he didn't understand.

And at the time I had no problems talking about behaviour and issues with Mom. She asked and wanted to know. Of course that was a situation that couldn't have been helped, but she certainly understood how it was affecting her kids.

So I guess the reason why am I hesitant to bring it up now is that it does sound more like judgment, which is not at all what I intend.

Of course she is making different choices than I would, but I am also in a two-parent family, have a career that allows me to spend all day with my kid, and aren't at all athletic (nor do I enjoy going to the bar). So who knows what the case would be if the roles were reversed?

Originally Posted by eepster

I would only comment, if it comes with an offer of help. Can you help her with working out routines for the babysitters to follow? or some other help. If you just want to try to get her to give up all her evening activities, I don't think you should say anything.

I am not sure what I would have to offer here. I don't have him in the evenings so I don't even know what his bedtime routine is.

I also don't think that it has to be all or nothing - there is always middle ground. Perhaps she could cut back to one sport at a time or something so she is only gone one night of the week, and then only go "out" on the weekends after the kids are in bed anyway. Just as a for instance. But I totally agree that it isn't my place to tell her what to do, nor would I ever consider doing that unless she outright asked me for my advice.

If I say anything at all, it would only be to point out (gently, and non-judgmentally) that L's behaviour tends to be more challenging on the days after he has been left with a sitter. What she does with that information is entirely up to her.

In any event, I only have him tomorrow and then not again to the new year. Hopefully he will get lots of time with Mom over the holidays and that should do him some good. I'll re-evaluate this situation once he is back.

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by chinaKat

I guess a question you could ask yourself is, would you word your comment the same way if you knew the mom was spending those nights away from the child to work a second job, or to care for a sick relative?

Yes. Because there's a chance that something different could be done at auntie's house to make it easier for her ds to go to sleep. Such as a phone call from mama (on a break at the second job) or a recording of mama reading a bedtime story or something.

If it can't be helped, it can't be helped, but it's silly to just give up "oh well, this'll just make him cranky tomorrow, nothing to be done" or worse, what the mom seems to be doing, see the crankiness as random chance with no reason.

So yes, the next time he comes in cranky, I'd comment that his crankiness seems to be tied to having spent the night away from home and suggest that she may want to talk with his aunt about helping him get more sleep.

(And really, for going out, she could start her night at 8 or 9pm quite easily so I'm not sure why she isn't getting her ds to bed at aunties house anyway, but that I wouldn't mention at all.)

[eunytuny]

As long as your words come from a place of love and concern, a rational in tune parent would be receptive. I wouldn't sit her down and say "there is something we need to talk about...". I'd wait till she brought the subject up.

[darcytrue]

Originally Posted by oursweetboys

Who cares if she takes offense to it? So should we only consider the feelings of the parent at the absolute exclusion of the child's?

I think so. It's her child and she is the one who has to parent the child 24/7. When it comes down to it, it's really not anyone elses business how she parents unless she is physically abusing the child. She doesn't seem to be hurting the child.

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by darcytrue

I think so. It's her child and she is the one who has to parent the child 24/7.

: 24/7?

[claras_mom]

Originally Posted by DaughterOfKali

I used to work in a day care center as well as being a teacher in private schools.

When we noticed recurring aggressive or clingy/crying behavior, we would ask the parent if she/he could work with us on trying to find the cause/solution. Ask if the parent would like to set up a meeting with you. That puts it in her/his court.

This, I think, is the best approach.

[JSerene]

I don't think anyone's mentioned it, but have you considered cultural differences? A friend of mine sent her young child to Africa for a year to live with his aunties and this was considered completely normal, though I couldn't imagine it. For some, spending tons of time at an aunts or a grandma's isn't anything to blink an eye at.

[shanniesue2]

I think that if you say something, even mild, to the effect of "I've noticed he's crankier when you've been out" it will be taken as judgemental. Even if you mean it in a kind way.

If you feel obliged to say something, then I would wait until the next time she comments on his behavior, just ask something like "why do you think he's been so clingy/moody lately? Do you think there's anything that could be upsetting him?" (or questions of a similar nature). Even if she doesn't give you the answer right then, she might start thinking about it and come to the answer on her own.

[BunnySlippers]

Originally Posted by MamaChicken

My nanny has brought things up to me before - "your DS is a little crankier when your DH has to remind him (not so gently) about his chores" or "DD has some real behavior issues on the mornings you leave without waking her up first". Sometimes it is hard to hear, but I need the feedback or nothing would change.

I agree, I have a child in daycare,and although some things are hard to swallow; and others may be totally off base, having open communication is important to see if changes need to be made. After all my kids happiness and wellbeing comes before my own.

[sweetpeppers]

Originally Posted by hippiechickinsing

I would approach it by asking about the routine on the nights someone else cares for him. You have concerns about his mood/behavior on the days after he's been in alternative care. I think this is a legitimate concern and does not suggest any judgment of the mother on your part, just a desire to work together for the happiness and health of the child in your care.

This is good! Really good advice. I am a single mother (and a nanny), and like the poster after the post I quoted, I would be happy for detailed feedback from my child care provider (I don't have one, but if I did, I would). But many people would not. It's very touchy. That's why the above advice is so good, because it's coming at it from a different angle. It's not saying you need to change or anything like that. It's saying how can we make what you want to do work better.

And the comment about it being her (the mother) that has to deal with her child 24/7, is obviously not true if the boy is in daycare 8-9 hours of the day, traveling at least one hour and spending 2-4 nights at his aunt's house. It's everyone else that is suffering from her neglecting her son. They are the ones that have to deal with him. It sounds like she is mainly just ferrying him around. (that sounds really harsh, I don't know her or the situation at all, so I'm just saying this hypothetically not actually about this woman in particular).