The most all-over-the-place thread. EVER. need suggestions/directions/help/ideas...

[EmilyVorpe]

Oooh boy do we need some help! We've become a mess of a family!!! 4 kids and 2 parents-- kids are ds(5), dd(2), dd(1), and ds(8 weeks).

We watch a lot of tv in the house. There is usually tv on at all times during waking hours, kids shows are usually on from 6am-8am, then from 9:30-noon...then from 3-5pm and sometimes from 6-6:30. Yeah, tell me about it...it's a lot of tv. I hate it but I have no idea what to do with our days. The amount of tv time usually goes with the behavior...the worse the behavior, the more tv they watch because I start yelling and instead of yelling and them not listening, I turn the tv on and sit with them. (some of the tv time is music on demand, though...they dance to music videos)

My 2yo is NUTS. It will sound absolutely awful...but she's... definitely not my favorite some days. She does not listen to me directing and redirecting. She doesn't want to have anything to do with me (especially when her daddy is home). We try to restrict kids playing in the kitchen...we allow them in each other's rooms and the living room. That's 3 rooms and there are PLENTY of toys, puzzles, etc.So anyway, my 2yo will constantly climb over the baby gates we have set up. She wants to play in the kitchen, which is not fine with me. I have things babyproofed in there, but she's now starting to drag kitchen chairs around and getting into food (try cleaning up a 5 pound bag of flour while soothing a screaming refluxy newborn........) So anyway, she wants to constantly be out of sight, which is fine, if she's in one of the rooms I've pointed out. I don't let the 5yo run free either, but mostly because he absolutely. won't. play. independently. at. all. ever. Annnnyway, the 2yo will tell me no and I try so hard to explain the rules and let her know there will be consequences if she disobeys. We don't do spanks, but we do time outs. Time outs don't seem to teach her anything, because although she is madder than hell about being in time out, she does the same thing again as soon as she's out. Oh, and when she's put in time out, she screams "I'm not in time out!" so maybe she thinks that if she says it, its her choice to still be sitting there? But, the big issues aren't her actually being in the kitchen, its the constant climbing over when I've set the limits and screaming at me and sometimes hitting. We've ruined our walls (rented house) with the baby gates being climbed over...and with her trying to rip them down. Again, letting the 3 big kids run free is not an option....the kitchen isn't an option. Oh, and she seems to have no remorse over hitting anyone. She takes toys, hits, pushes over the 1yo and just doesn't seem affected by the apology I insist on.
Ugh... discipline is nonexistent and most days I cry over her attitude and disrespect.
And if they ask (or I beg them to) they will color with crayons, although I absolutely can't move a muscle away from the 2yo while she has anything out because she draws on walls and furniture, despite her having had to clean it up before. Playdough isn't too fun for long and the 1yo eats crayons, markers, playdough, paint, etc...so it's not much fun for her either (not to mention, makes life REALLY hard trying to prevent messes and belly aches).

I have to nurse the baby frequently and as he has belly issues, I can't constantly unlatch him and set him down quickly. We have to keep him still for 20 minutes after he eats or he projectiles, but after that I'm able to set him down for some swinging or floor time for a few.

And I'm SO terrified of my kids that we don't leave the house except to bring the 5yo to and from school. I won't even take them into our gated backyard because I can't get the 2yo to not open the gate and run...and I would hate to drag everyone out there and then have to bring them right back in because she wouldn't listen (punishing all of them...). We have only played outside (around the house, parks, etc) maybe 15 times in the last year and a half.

Ok---so this long rambling mess is this: What can I do with my kids to entertain them, that won't make my life harder, that isn't tv? Tv is a given for some time, though, as they will be in the living room/playroom the majority of the day. And what can I do about my 2yo? I want to look at her and think she's the sweetest little girl.

[BellinghamCrunchie]

Its going to get better if you can find a way through the year or so. Is a mother's helper a possibility? That would be the very best thing. Then they could be outside 1 or 2 at a time, running off some of that energy.

There might be some toys for inside that could help them be more active in a positive way, like one of those indoor trampolines with the handlebar.

[Abraisme]

It sounds like you need some help! Try to get a teen helper a couple of days a week. It would be better for your kids if they could get out of the house. That's a lot of work, period! Good luck!

[NYCVeg]

Do you think some sort of structured nursery school environment would help your 2 yo dd let off some steam? My dd started nursery when she was 2, just a few hours, 2-3 days a week. It might help her if she's craving social time and attention and it might give you some time to manage the littlest. Or, are there any toddler gym-type places in your area? We used to belong to one, and it was a GREAT place to take her to let her run off some energy on days when it was too cold or wet to play outside.

I also wonder if really cutting the cord on the TV might help. I know it would be a HUGE change, but I've heard many parents say that lots of TV makes their kids more restless, wound-up, and difficult.

What about implementing some sort of loose daily schedule so that the kids know what to expect and the TV isn't always a default--e.g., set times for meals, one or two short TV breaks, chores, play time, out for a walk/to the park time.

I can't imagine managing 3-4 little ones (we have an only), but I also suspect that, hard as it is, more outdoor time would REALLY help tire them out and keep them busy and entertained. Before dd was in full-day school, we spent time outside pretty much every day. If the weather was absolutely dreadful, we would go to the playspace, as I said, or just blow bubbles on the porch or something. If it's truly overwhelming, this might be a place where a mother's helper could also help you out.

I don't know if any of these ideas will work--just brainstorming.

[naw5467]

First off, I want to offer hugs! Second, I had to chuckle a little because I could have written your post practically word for word, only I have just three, the youngest also being eight weeks. I have no advice, but I can really sympathize. You are not the only one, so don't be too hard on yourself! The mother's helper is a great idea; if possible you should try it. Good luck!

[aprons_and_acorns]

The only thing that came to mind was if there is any way you can lock the gate? It would be so hard to have to pass up getting the little ones some exercise and fresh air in your own fenced yard because of an escape artist.

Four children age five and under has got to be strenuous. If it helps at all, I recently read that it's "OK" to give yourself the thumbs up for just getting through the day with everyone alive, intact, and asleep.

[LVale]

Since you have a gated backyard, would it be possible to put a lock on the gate, so the 2 yr. old can't get out? I also second getting a mother's helper.

[hollytheteacher]

As for the kitchen thing, I can pretty much guarentee you that it isn't the "kitchen" part that is as exciting as the being near mommy part. Most kids like to play near their parents. When I was a kid I'd drag all my toys out and play on the kitchen floor just because i liked being near mommy.

Also the pulling the chair thing is def something my ds (also 2) does and it's because he wants to help. I love it! Yes it is a challenge because sometimes his "helping" is dumping things, making messes etc. but that is how children learn and experience things.

I KNOW you are stressed out and you DO need help, so i'm not trying to blame you or point fingers, but you say your two year old "isnt' your favorite" and I think it's important to realize it isn't the child, but the age...especially because everything you mention IS age appropriate (climbing, spilling etc). I know you have a baby and are overwhelmed and I can't even imagine! That is why we aren't going to have our second child until ds is over three! lol.

Also the tv thing has to stop. Not sure where you live and I know it's been reallllly cold here, but why not bring them to a local playground where they can run around for an hour or two instead?

[FreeRangeMama]

Sounds rough Mama! I had 4 in 6 years, so not exactly the same as you, but definitely chaos. First to go for me would be the TV. Or at least save it for later in the day so you aren't starting your day by winding them up! Second would be to find a way to make the kitchen a place you didn't have to fight about. Is it worth the stress and battle? You are in survival mode here until the little one is just a bit older! No point making yourself even more battles.

Also, try to keep in mind that the 2 year old is not only acting pretty appropriate for a child her age, she also is adjusting to having a new sibling. Her "acting out" is maybe her way of dealing with a major upheaval in her life.

I have found that structuring our days so they flow between a more active time and a more quiet or concentrated time really helps. For example, a walk followed by colouring, followed by dancing, then puzzles.

Also, bubble baths are a LIFESAVER. Tons of bubbles, lots of things from the kitchen that aren't usually designated as bath toys (and a ton of towels on the floor to absorb the flood). You can hang out in there with the baby and a book or magazine (or knitting, or whatever) and catch a break. Pile them all in and let them have fun.

The key is to try to find the joy and the fun and focus on that. When the stressful stuff comes up (like the flour.....my #3 child did that too ) STOP and think how this can either be something that makes your eyes want to pop out, or it can be something that you can laugh about later. I grudgingly grabbed the camera and snapped some pictures, silently cleaned up the mess, and found it much funnier a few hours later when I showed dh what his precious dd had been up to.

It really takes a conscious effort to find the humour in the day to day stresses (and messes) of life with a whole bunch of young kids, but if you force yourself in the early, difficult, sleep deprived days it becomes a habit. Then you can eventually see the behaviours that used to drive you crazy as something a little more positive. "Oh, she needs some more Mama time", "Hey this one LOVES art", and "she really loves to get right in there and explore". That feels so much better than "she is so clingy", "ACK! Crayon on the table again!" or "What a mess".

Mostly, cut yourself some slack! You have a new baby with some pretty intense needs. It is okay for everything to spiral out of control for a little while. It will not last forever. In a few short weeks things will start to crawl upwards bit by bit. In a couple of months you will be in the 4kid groove and it will all feel SO MUCH EASIER. Hang in there

[rightkindofme]

I have no advice (I only have one 19 months old) but I couldn't read this without commenting. The fact that your children are alive and fed and safe every day is a flippin miracle. You are a rock star.

[Tjej]

Can you all set up in one room - you in a chair blocking the doorway - no TV - and just have the kids play there. Nothing they can do wrong/destroy/etc. And you can sit and nurse the baby?

That, and either locking or sitting in front of and the gate in the yard are my two best ideas. Getting outside will help. Less (even, possibly for a while NO) TV will help.

Tjej

[mountainsunshine]

((hugs)) thats hard. I have 3 those same ages (minus the 8wo). Mine are soooo active too. Do you have some good quality baby carriers? Sounds like you need your hands free a bit more.
I agree to turn off the tv. Yes ask some one to help you take em outside or out somewhere. A playgroup? LLL? The McD's playplace. Anywhere. Ask around for a teenager to help, a kid from church or the neighborhood. MAybe a mom with less kids can help you get out. A LLL friend?... A relative to take your two olders out?

If theres a day where you cant get em out then lots of brain power activites and active play. Playdough at the table. Make fingerpaints with pudding and cool aid (just before bath) some tub crayons would help. building blocks. tupperware party with the tots. Heck give that tot her own tupperware set and a bath mat to play with them on. IF she messes up mamas dinner and leaves the mat shes outta the kitchen. I bet if she has a spot and an activity next to mama and you are enthused about it too things will go better there.

Don't despair. These are the hard years. it can only get better.

Sarah

[RiverSky]

You can tie the gate closed with some rope, or lock a chain bike lock around it to keep it closed tight. It definitely sounds like your children need exercise and fresh air, as well as a change of scenery. If you can let them play in the backyard for 1-2 hours every morning, from say, 10-11:30am, then bring them in while you prepare lunch, then perhaps they will be ready for a nap after lunch.

Can you take them all to the zoo or outdoor nature center? If you have a dual stroller, you could sling the newborn, put the 1 and 2 year olds in the stroller and take them around the zoo. Our zoo has a couple of fenced in playgrounds, does yours?

At that age, I found that the best afternoons/evenings we had were when my children were truly tuckered out after a very long trip to some attraction during the day. Also, I found that if I wasn't home, the house didn't get nearly as messy!!! It was heavenly.

MOMS Club was also a saviour for me then. They had regular park days and since most of the moms had very little ones, everyone's favorite parks were the ones that were completely enclosed with a fence and only one entrance. Some of the moms would always stand guard near the gate and make sure it stayed closed and no children got out. The rest would stand around, chat and watch the children play. I think it would be an amazing outlet for your children, a surprising release for you to be able to talk to other adults during the day, without worrying about your house getting messed up or children climbing gates. You could bring bagged lunches for your children to eat at the park, then go home and they'd all be ready for a nap.

Our MOMS Club also had indoor events, like we would rent a community center room, bring toys and have a meeting. We'd set up gym mats and one or two moms would volunteer to watch the babies and keep an eye on the older kids playing, while the rest of the moms listened to a speaker or talked about club business. Sometimes we had craft days, too. We also went on field trips for reduced rates or free, and again, a double stroller would come in handy for those.

[pauletoy]

I have 4 ages 7,5,3 and 1 so I know what you are going through. You are right in the mist of the most difficult time, it will get better as they all get a little older and have more impulse control. That being said, my 5 year old has always been much like you describe your 2 year old. What I have learned is that he has a very high activity level. If I provide him with lots of ways to burn off energy his behavior is great, however, if we just sit around the house and watch tv all day he goes crazy.

I would try to get out in the yard every single day. Put a higher lock on the gate so they can't escape. Also, on rainy days or days you just can't get out of the house, you need to find some way to get in some toddler exercise. Get a childrens excercise video. If you can afford it, one of those indoor kiddy trampoline's with the handlebar on it would be great. I think One Step Ahead sells them. Do anything you can to raise the activity level.

This is the trampoline: (hope this link works)
http://www.onestepahead.com/catalog/...Id=490758#tabs

[Bellabaz]

Just an idea and I don't know if it is possible with yoru gate. But when I was growing up we had a fenced backyard. And we had heavy duty combintaion locks on both entry gates. Maybe locking the gate(S) and having them run around outside would help? Also second having a mothers helper or some occasional daycre for 2 yo to help her get the attention she may be craving and get some energy out. Indoor play areas help alot when the weather is too cold/rainy, etc. Hang in there. I only have two and what you are doing is amazing!

[BetsyS]

I go to a once a month MOPs meeting where someone else watches my children for 2 hours. It's a nice time away for me, they are separated, there are plenty of teachers, and when it's over (we meet 10-12), my kids are exhausted and ready for a nap.

I only have 2 children, but mandatory quiet time in the afternoon is also a lifesaver here. I need that time to get through the day, just to give my brain time to recharge.

[flapjack]

First, hugs.

Second, make sure you find time to think something positive about your 2yo every day- just one thing. I know it sounds weird, but when one kid is a handful, it's so easy for your brain (and theirs) to get into the mindset of just seeing the trouble and missing the awesomeness that goes along with that free little spirit of theirs.

Third, get some time for yourself, get out of the house without the kids occasionally.

And fourth, get out of doors for some fresh air. The best thing about the middle of a field is that they have a very long way to run to get to trouble.

IF she's breaking into the kitchen when you're not there, I'd put a hook and eye high on the door rather than the stairgate. On the other hand, if she's breaking in to get to you, can you find a way of welcoming her?

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by Abraisme

It sounds like you need some help! Try to get a teen helper a couple of days a week. It would be better for your kids if they could get out of the house. That's a lot of work, period! Good luck!

Yes, getting out of the house probably will help. I know it seems like too much to take them out, but as it is, they're making a mess of the house constantly. At least if you're outside, they're not making messes in the place where you have to live.

[EmilyVorpe]

Thanks ladies! I'm struggling a bit...
The tv is going to change. I probably won't be able to go 100% without it, but I've told Dh to not put it on in the mornings (while I'm catching up on sleep) and with Xmas presents coming our way, I'm hoping those will help keep the kids entertained a little bit better so that I can keep it off for longer periods.
Activity wise, the only option at this point is indoor. Not only is it WAY too cold for the baby to be outside, the gate is a problem because its not a normal gate. It has big slats that the girls fit through...and because we don't own, we can't replace the gate for a better one. We get out to the mall's play place (quite fun, actually) about once a week...so that's good, but I agree they need more. I'm looking into dance videos and kiddie exercise videos.
Unfortunately, we won't be able to afford a mothers helper anytime soon.
I'm going through the entire house, top to bottom, to kid proof it. No papers, nothing out...chairs, tables, floor, toys. thats it.
And the 2yo wanting to be in the kitchen is mostly when I'm NOT in there...she likes to run. And I think she likes to be in there because I don't want them in there. arg!
Thanks for the tips...I'm trying, I really am!!!!

[butterfly_mommy]

Originally Posted by EmilyVorpe

Activity wise, the only option at this point is indoor. Not only is it WAY too cold for the baby to be outside, the gate is a problem because its not a normal gate. It has big slats that the girls fit through...and because we don't own, we can't replace the gate for a better one. We get out to the mall's play place (quite fun, actually) about once a week...so that's good, but I agree they need more.

I know it seems really hard but children MUST spend time outside pretty much most days rain/shine/hot/cold, besides those few days of extremes. If you can get the kids outside to play for 30-45mins even once a day, preferable in the morning hours when the sun is out it will really help them to feel grounded and to burn off some energy. Seriously I only have one almost 2 year old at home and he starts going crazy like your 2 year old when he doesn't get outside daily.

Get some plastic snow/barrier fencing (or something)at a hardware store (send your DH, tell him you really need to get the kids out and you would be so grateful if he could find a solution to the gate) and weave it into the bars of the gate then secure it with zip ties to the bars of the gate. Next get some rope or chain and a carabiner to secure the gate with. Then do a once over around the yard making sure there a no escape spots or hazards, fix what you find. If you don't have out door toys then a strip to the thrift store is in order.

have your 5 year old help the 2 year old to get on their outdoor stuff while you help the one year old get dressed. Next when getting ready for going outside get baby dressed in a sleeper and you in a thin sweater and wear baby in a carrier (wraps and Mei tais are good for newborns) if babies feet are out and not froggied in the carrier then put on booties. You can wrap a blanket around the outside of the carrier and tuck it in if it is really cold or just put on one of your husbands or pregnancy on coats over top of you and baby. Put hat on baby and your self. I wore DS like this from the time he was 5 days old in all kinds of weather including blowing snowstorms were it was
-25 C and he never complained, usually just slept. You can keep your baby upright this way as well so it will help with the reflux (DS was a happy spitter)

Good luck mama!