How is this different from CIO? Please help :(

[CrunchyMamaB]

My son is a few days shy of 8 months old and we're having a terrible time getting him to sleep at night. He used to nurse to sleep, which I LOVED, but now he just pops off, twists and hits to get out of my arms, and screams.

The rest of the bedtime "routine" is spent trying to soothe him while he screams and cries. We hold him, walk him around the room, I try to nurse him again, we bounce him, sing to him--the crying just escalates. We put him in his crib and pat his back, but he just screams harder and then pulls himself up and wants to be held again.

I'm really at a loss. This feels like CIO, which we are against, but what do you do when you've tried every trick in the book and your LO is screaming and fighting sleep?

Friends tsk tsk me and say that if we did the "tough love" approach of just letting him CIO and checking on him every ten minutes or whatever, he would cry LESS in the long run than what he is doing now.

Has anyone else been here? Is it a separation anxiety thing? Is it a phase? I don't think he's overtired, he's never up for more than a few hours after his last nap, and most days he takes two good naps (an hour and a bit each).

He also wakes SEVERAL times in the night, and I usually nurse him. Sometimes we co-sleep just because I'm too tired to keep getting up, but then he seems to wake even MORE and both DH and I have a hard time sleeping when he is wiggling, kicking, tossing and turning in our bed.

I don't know what to do

[lach]

It sounds like he could be teething? For some reason, teething hurts more when they're lying down. I don't know if there's any scientific data to back that up, but I swear it's true! So it could not be bothering him, and as soon as he's trying to relax, lying down, not much going on, he realizes OUCH his mouth hurts.

Another thing I'd look into is making sure he isn't overtired. That can make him super alert and grumpy (and also exacerbate any pain he might be in if he's teething). Make sure he gets 2 good naps in, and put him to bed when you first start to notice him getting sleepy.

And btw, comforting him is the exact opposite of CIO. I know there's always that debate about about whether babies ever cry for no reason, and I personally believe that there's always a reason... but unless I missed the parenting class on ESP sometimes there's just no way to tell what's wrong and how to fix it. It's really awful when that happens, but it happens to the absolute best parent in the universe sometimes and there's only so much you can do about it. It sounds like you're doing the best you can.

[mrsfrenchy]

I feel like we went through something similar around when DD was 9 or 10 months old (not sure when exactly). We were the same: DD was in a crib, we were reluctant to cosleep because it didn't result in better sleep at all.

First of all, its not CIO if you're there trying to comfort him. Yes, what you're doing isn't working--but he still knows that you're there and that you're trying to help him calm down and that's what matters.

What worked for us (and really isn't the best solution for every kid, so may not be something you are comfortable with) is moving DD out of the crib and into a matress on the floor. She wasn't walking or crawling yet, but she managed anyway (she was probably walking pretty well within 6 or 7 weeks of being moved to the matress). We baby proofed her room and I'm in there the second she's awake anyway. It seemed like the crib was a major source of anxiety for her. I think it had to do with seperation anxiety and maybe with feeling trapped in there.
But the twin on the floor meant I could lay down with her to go to sleep, I can cosleep as needed (and go back to my room when she's asleep and I'm not comfortable anymore), and she no longer flipped out at bedtime (well, she does occasionally, but its just typical toddler stuff )

Anyway, that was just our experience. I hope you find something that works for you.

[SparklingGemini]

Crying in arms in much different than crying alone, in a dark room, abandoned without anyone to comfort you.

I'm sorry that you're having difficulties. I remember my DD went through a phase like this. Turned out she was extremely overtired and I was missing her naptime cues.

Once I started getting her more sleep, sleep came much easier.

You might want to try that, even if you think he's not overtired. Its amazing what thirty minutes to an hour can do.

But again, know that despite the drama and upset, he's much better off knowing that you are there for him, even if it doesn't seem to be soothing him, than he would be alone.

[Cekimon]

Originally Posted by SparklingGemini

Crying in arms in much different than crying alone, in a dark room, abandoned without anyone to comfort you.

[shanniesue2]

not doing CIO does NOT mean there won't be crying... it just means that you aren't abandoning him and leaving him to his own devices when he cries. And in a lot of cases where parents force their babes to CIO, it isn't that the babe cries less... it's that the parents teach themselves to tune out the crying.

[lisavark]

Sounds like teething to me. Is his nose stuffy at all? My DD does that when her nose is stuffy, because she can't nurse very well when she can't breathe through her nose. It'll pass...

And yeah, nothing like CIO. The whole point of CIO is leaving the child ALONE. Which you are not doing.

[prothyraia]

It's not CIO because even if you can't 'fix' the problem, he knows you are there and that you care.

My oldest fought bedtime for a very long time (and fought is really the only appropriate word here). He would be tired, but Could. Not. Lay. Still. And so he would thrash around and keep himself awake. The only thing that worked was to walk him around until he was somewhat calm, and then lay down with him either swaddled or pinned down to the bed by our arms/body, and let him thrash and wiggle and roll against us without actually moving until he passed out. It felt awful.

He's now three, and says "Momma, I'm tired" and then we go lay down in bed and he says "Tell me the x story" and I make up a story about x, and then he falls asleep. (okay, usually, not every night ) I don't recall exactly how we got from there to here, but we did.

[2boyzmama]

My 2.5 month old is doing this recently, I call it "crying down" instead of "crying it out" because he is always in our arms with us talking soothingly to him. I think that it's a case of being over {tired, whelmed, stimulated} and he just has to get it out before he can settle down. He's been hard to settle down from birth, he won't just nurse to sleep and stay asleep.

Be on the lookout for signs of sensory processing issues, sometimes babies show signs of it but don't get the diagnosis until older, and miss out on a window of opportunity for therapy. Early Intervention can provide occupational therapy if there are signs of sensory issues. Just something to be aware of if this continues or if he shows other signs.

[CrunchyMamaB]

thanks ladies, I'm glad I'm not alone and I feel less guilty now about the crying. I just want bedtime to be a positive, calming experience and I get so jealous when I talk to friends and family and they're like, "yep, we have a bottle and then read a book and it's off to bed, easy as pie!"

We've started letting him have a little nap at about 5:30-6, and now it's 9 and my DH is getting him out of the bath and I'm going to try to nurse him to sleep. It's been a few hours since supper so hopefully he'll have a really good nurse and then want to sleep...and DH is going to be the "night time parent" from midnight to 6. That means no breastfeeding in the night, which will hopefully mean he'll sleep longer than 1 or 2 hour stretches.

Luckily, DH is a very calm, patient, loving dad and I know DS will be in good hands, so hopefully I can get some good sleep and be a great mom in the morning!!

[LVale]

That is not CIO, you are right there with him. Sometimes they just cry, and that is ok. As a parent, it is not your job to keep a little one happy all the time, the most important thing is just to be there for them. This applies from infancy and beyond.

[FrugalGranolaMom]

Originally Posted by mrsfrenchy

First of all, its not CIO if you're there trying to comfort him. Yes, what you're doing isn't working--but he still knows that you're there and that you're trying to help him calm down and that's what matters.

we are currently going through something similar with ds (almost 4 months old) he has already started teething and he doesn't always want to take his afternoon naps so by the evening he is Mr. Meltdown.

I know it's rough but you are doing everything you can to comfort him.

[inkslinger]

My dd#1 was pretty high needs as a baby and she almost always cried to sleep, in my arms. I tried different things to soothe her, and the only thing I could do was rock her until she stopped crying. You are NOT letting her CIO! YOu are comforting and soothing and being there. Some littles just have a harder time winding down to sleep than others. Good luck!

(FWIW, she's an EXCELLENT sleeper now, at 5, and isn't high needs at ALL anymore)

[inkslinger]

Oops, I meant "HIM!"

[CrunchyMamaB]

our solution...

well last night sucked. It took me an hour of screaming/crying from DS before he FINALLY nursed to sleep. I told DH he was on duty till the morning because I just reallllllllly needed sleep. DS woke up at 2:30 and after an hour of trying to get him back in his crib, DH just took him into the spare bed. DS woke again at 6, so I brought him into my bed and nursed him.

DH said that he seemed terrified to go back in his crib, but seemed to sleep really well with DH in the spare...so that might be our solution for now. I can't have DS in bed with me because he wakes every 30-60 minutes to nurse and it's exhausting!!

I would too if my favorite drink was only a few inches away

[Super~Single~Mama]

It sounds like teething to me. Really - when Lincoln is teething really badly its terrible. No sleep for anyone in the house. When I know he's teething and bedtime is dragging on and on, I give him some motrin, wait for it to take effect and then he goes down pretty easy.

Also, have you tried wearing him to sleep? Lincoln loves going to sleep in the Kozy or the Ergo.

[lotus.blossom]

My little guys is doing the same kind of thing. He is also just shy of 8 months. Lats night I did something that I gleaned from this forum. I nursed him, and he clearly wasn't going to fall asleep so I wrapped him up in a tight swaddle and wrapped my arms around him tight and started rocking him in the rocking chair. He didn't fight it, and although his little head popped up a lot to look around he eventually stopped and fell asleep. I was so excited!! My dh was gone for the evening and usually after I nurse I hand him off to DH and he falls asleep. I think its the security of my DH being big and strong. But anyway.......the swaddle worked! He was up 45 minutes later but oh well. He is teething so I gave him tylenol and he slept on my chest for the next few hours.
I think that the best advice is to do what you have to do, don't fight it. Don't listen to your friends, and know that it will eventually change for the better. I have a 3 year old and he was the WORST sleeper ever. I spent many nights angry and exhausted and ready to throw in the towel. And now at 3 he asks to go to bed and he sleeps all night. So......I think that has changed my outlook on things.

[justKate]

me too.

she's crying and fighting Huz right now, having drawn blood on my lip and arm.



I'm with you.

[Louisep]

We're traveling right now including a 5 hour time change. My usually easy to get to sleep son is now doing what you describe and I know for certain it's because he's overtired. DS is getting way less naps and night sleep than he needs. How much night sleep does your DS get? 9pm sounds kind of late (unless he's sleeping 12 hours).

[CrunchyMamaB]

He gets about 12 hours a night. Usually, he goes to bed at 7:30 ish and is up for the day around 7:45. The last couple of nights, the screaming has lasted so long that his bed time has been later, and he's slept in till 8:30.

I took his crib away and made him a little bed on the floor, and the last two nights (tonight and last night) have been AMAZING!! Last night he cried for a few minutes and my DH bounced him to sleep, but tonight I nursed him to sleep, laying on the floor next to his little bed, and he fell asleep peacefully, no crying!! Last night he only woke ONCE to nurse. He woke a couple other times, but when I went in to lay next to him he just smiled at me and went back to sleep. I couldn't believe it.

The only thing was...in my bed, I just kept thinking about how small he seemed in his room, on the floor in his little nest. I just wanted him next to me. But, all three of us get terrible sleep when we co-sleep, so I just try to co-sleep with him for naps