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People who feel they "have" to intervene - Page 5

post #81 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by chfriend View Post
I'd just stay with my kid until she felt comfortable again .
I would do that, too. But I'd really downplay the name-issue with my dd. "She called you ____, huh? Hmmm. Did you do anything fun?"

I stayed with my dd in all classes at age 4 (my dd's strong preference). But I tried really hard to sit back, bite my tongue, and let the teacher and dd interact directly, without my help/interference, always watching dd for signs of truly needing help. With my sensitive kiddo, believing that she needed extra help dealing with little stuff, and that she couldn't handle a situation the way the other kids could, became a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's a fine line to walk, though.
post #82 of 160
sunmama....I know we've "talked" about this before. I was a fly on the wall as well. But I think the leaders of the classes tended to be more careful of things like not making a big issue out of something one of the kids said just because of someone being there.

dd1 loved a class at that age. I consistently found that class leaders who did not want me in the room did not interact as well with dd as those that were fine with it. Just anectdotal, but there it is.

My didn't want to be left dd at 4, 5, 6 and 7 is now my work the party, play in the hot tub, talk to all the grownups, take the physics class with the 12 year old 9 year old.

But when she ran into trouble with a teacher using imo weird class control techniques last semester and the teacher wouldn't let my dp observe because "then all the parents would want to come in" my dd walked away from that as fast as her feet would carry her.

The self-fulfilling prophecy for us was that dd has really good instincts for healthy and unhealthy learning environments.
post #83 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by chfriend View Post
But when she ran into trouble with a teacher using imo weird class control techniques last semester and the teacher wouldn't let my dp observe because "then all the parents would want to come in" my dd walked away from that as fast as her feet would carry her.
I have no faith in teachers (doctors/dentists/etc) who won't let parents observe.


Quote:
The self-fulfilling prophecy for us was that dd has really good instincts for healthy and unhealthy learning environments.


My dd's meter was definitely hypersensitive and leading her astray....but we ended up with the same result after building up her confidence and experience level a bit
post #84 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnmama View Post
IMy dd's meter was definitely hypersensitive and leading her astray....but we ended up with the same result after building up her confidence and experience level a bit
I really think that was key...listening, affirming, strategizing...and making sure she knew that we behind her!

It really is such a joy to watch them step out on their own when they are ready!
post #85 of 160
I'm confused about several things.

My DD is 3 and she sometimes pretends (and insists) that she is another name. Usually it's Thelma, for whatever reason. That's fine with us, but when we go somewhere like Sunday School I would simply explain to the teacher she's pretending that's her name. It's up to the teacher and DD to work out the rest. My DD will either be fine with being called her real name, or she will correct the teacher and ask to be called Thelma every time the teacher messes up.

It just doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me at all. Maybe I am missing something...

I also don't understand why the OP's child has to be called her name of choice and be 100% respected as a child, but at the same time the DD doesn't have to respect the adults as is the cultural norm. It seems like a confusing double standard. If her DD insists on being called a pretend name that's fine, and why wouldn't she also have to call the adults ma'am and sir in return?

We are interested in unschooling and everything that goes along with it, but at the same time I encourage my DD to respect adults and learn to behave appropriately for whatever setting we are in. If she is unable to behave appropriately, we just don't stay there or don't go in the first place. Or if I am uncomfortable with something (like time-outs) then I wouldn't leave DD there, instead of expecting them to make it different for us...

And by the way, we also live in the South where spanking is quite the norm.
post #86 of 160
How is it disrepectful for the child to be called a nickname? It's the only name she uses right now. My brothers and sisters given names and some of them went by nicknames based on those names. I use two names and some people find that really oppressive since it involves saying 5 syllables.

Names are like that.
post #87 of 160
It's not disrespectful, it's respectful of the child's wishes.
post #88 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by chfriend View Post
How is it disrepectful for the child to be called a nickname? It's the only name she uses right now. My brothers and sisters given names and some of them went by nicknames based on those names. I use two names and some people find that really oppressive since it involves saying 5 syllables.

Names are like that.
I think there was a comparison being made between asking an adult to call the child by a nickname, and adults asking to be called "ma'am" and "sir"... Another poster mentioned that she has to step in to prevent her child from being expected to do the latter when they visit family in the south.
post #89 of 160
Thread Starter 
chaoticzenmom -- you are not far off-base. We are in the Midwest, where there isn't quite the Ma'm/Sir-thing going -- but nevertheless there is still sort of that Bible Belt mentality among some people.

chfriend's posts really sum up my feelings about the subject. We want to get connected into this community, which we are doing. And when my younger dd is happy interacting with an adult without me (and I am comfortable trusting the adult), then I'll be glad to go and enjoy adult worship.

I'm kind of disappointed that at this time it's like "1 step forward, 1 step back." I'll just keep going with dd while she wants me to. And just follow my instincts as I have been doing.

It's possible that it wasn't really a case of "Let me get Mom out of the way" -- but rather of "Now that Mom isn't here let's see if she REALLY gets upset about it." But from my dd's perspective, it communicates to her that "As soon as Mommy's out of the room, people start messing with me about my name."

As far as not trusting dd to hold her own -- at this point, whenever someone tries to argue with her about her name, she has not yet graduated to a mature response of just calmly telling the other person, "This is what I want to be called" and/or just calmly ignoring them until they address her by her chosen name.

So, leaving her to stand up for herself essentially means, leaving her to fly into a screaming rage if someone argues with her about this, and if they keep pushing it, she might just haul off and slap 'em. Which where we live, can often mean that it's the child who gets into trouble, not the adult who decided to turn a non-issue into an issue.
post #90 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by JL83 View Post
I think there was a comparison being made between asking an adult to call the child by a nickname, and adults asking to be called "ma'am" and "sir"... Another poster mentioned that she has to step in to prevent her child from being expected to do the latter when they visit family in the south.
I'm the one who brought it up, but it wasn't meant to be a comparison. Just an example of the strict nature of the South when it comes to respecting elders. I wouldn't consider Ma'am or Sir to be a nickname and I didn't mean to say that calling someone Sir is the same as calling a child baby.

I was trying to clarify why the OP might need to intervene more than most of us would find necessary in social situations between our children and other adults.
post #91 of 160
Hey it's probably OT, but I just ran into an article about a new study on imagination and fantasy play.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...061841322.html
post #92 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by mammal_mama View Post
So, leaving her to stand up for herself essentially means, leaving her to fly into a screaming rage if someone argues with her about this, and if they keep pushing it, she might just haul off and slap 'em. Which where we live, can often mean that it's the child who gets into trouble, not the adult who decided to turn a non-issue into an issue.
It sounds like your DD needs some help in learning how to stand up for herself.

With our DD we will help her figure out the words, and then send her back to the person to use those words. I don't think that speaking for her will do anything to help her or teach her.
post #93 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by chfriend View Post
Hey it's probably OT, but I just ran into an article about a new study on imagination and fantasy play.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...061841322.html
I don't see how this is relevant. No one has argued that imaginative play isn't important or good. There have been 2 questions raised:

1) Is it realistic to expect that every single person a child meets plays along with an imagination game

and

2) At what age/developmental point are children easily able to distinguish between fantasy and reality.
post #94 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper44 View Post
I also don't understand why the OP's child has to be called her name of choice and be 100% respected as a child, but at the same time the DD doesn't have to respect the adults as is the cultural norm. It seems like a confusing double standard. If her DD insists on being called a pretend name that's fine, and why wouldn't she also have to call the adults ma'am and sir in return?
We DO call adults, and everyone, whatever each particular person wants to be called. And if someone wanted to be addressed as "Ma'am" or "Sir" all the time, we would do that, too -- only here we'd just address them as Ma'am or Sir in the same contexts where we'd normally be speaking someone's name.

I.e., my children are accustomed that it's okay to say just "Yes" or "No" to questions, or "Okay" if they're agreeing to do something ...

So they don't have it programmed into them to repetitively say the person's name over and over, as in, "Yes, Mommy ... No, Daddy ... Okay, Fred" So if they know someone by the name of "Ma'am," they'd just be speaking "Ma'am" in the same contexts that they would normally speak anyone else's names.

This hasn't been an issue here in our particular Midwestern city.

What's weird to me, is realizing that some people see it as an attempt to control others, to just expect people to call you by whatever name you introduce yourself with. If someone introduces herself to me as "Mrs. Gray," then I just call her Mrs. Gray.

I don't argue with her about "Why don't you want anyone to call you by your first name?" If I did argue, I think this would really be a case of ME getting into HER space and trying to control HER, and not of HER getting into MY space and trying to control ME by expecting me to call her Mrs. Gray.
post #95 of 160
You seem to be missing the point that "baby" isn't the same as a normal nickname...

A name like "Baby" carries with it much much more than, let's say, "Sue" for "Susan".

I don't believe we can change the world. And I wouldn't want to set my child up for constant disappointment by setting up that expectation.
post #96 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by mammal_mama View Post
So, leaving her to stand up for herself essentially means, leaving her to fly into a screaming rage if someone argues with her about this, and if they keep pushing it, she might just haul off and slap 'em. Which where we live, can often mean that it's the child who gets into trouble, not the adult who decided to turn a non-issue into an issue.
In this case, I would not even consider leaving my dc in a Sunday School class. I don't think the average sunday school volunteer would anticipate such a strong reaction, or would be prepared to deal with it. What if one of the other children pushed an issue in your absence?
post #97 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by JL83 View Post
I don't see how this is relevant. No one has argued that imaginative play isn't important or good. There have been 2 questions raised:

1) Is it realistic to expect that every single person a child meets plays along with an imagination game

and

2) At what age/developmental point are children easily able to distinguish between fantasy and reality.
I see the question very differently...and agree that it has nothing to do with the distinction between fantasy and reality.

Does a child of 4 deserve to be called what she wishes without hassle (profanity aside)?

In my opinion, yes. In the opinion of some other folks, depends on what she wants to be called and whether the grown up likes the name.
post #98 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by JL83 View Post
I don't believe we can change the world. And I wouldn't want to set my child up for constant disappointment by setting up that expectation.
Eureka! I see here why we see this so differently.

I can change the world!! Every little thing that I do can make a difference. I'm willing to endure disappointment and irritation to change the world to a kinder and better place.

I hope my children feel the same way.
post #99 of 160
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JL83 View Post
It sounds like your DD needs some help in learning how to stand up for herself.

With our DD we will help her figure out the words, and then send her back to the person to use those words. I don't think that speaking for her will do anything to help her or teach her.
My way of helping her is by being with her and modeling how to handle things, until such time as she has better impulse-control and is ready to handle things on her own.

But I am accustomed to people telling me that my way of helping my children, really isn't helping them or teaching them anything.

I've already shared about the toileting -- another example is in how I delt with the way that she used to be quite extremely-aggressive with other kids. Sometimes in anger or fighting over toys -- but sometimes just because she'd feel these sudden urges to grab someone's face and squeeze really hard.

So I was constantly shadowing her in situations with other kids -- staying at arm's length well past the age when all her friends' moms were sitting off to the side chatting. Because she could be getting along fine for a while, and then suddenly get aggressive without warning.

So I was always at the ready to just take her out of situations when I could tell she'd had enough of the group setting, and might be about to hurt someone. And for quite sometime I got so tired that I avoided these group situations as much as I could, while at the same time meeting my older child's needs to get out and about.

People warned me that if I didn't hit or punish her in some way, she'd never learn. They warned me that dd just wasn't one of those kids who could learn though me taking her aside and talking with her. And of course they thought she'd do better if I wasn't always hovering (SHE probably would have been fine -- it was actually THEIR kids I was trying to protect, LOL).

But I persevered with what I knew in my heart to be right -- and now for the most part she gets along wonderfully with other children, and I get to sit off to the side and chat now, too. So she has heaps more impulse-control than she did a year ago -- but can still get intensely-violent if she feels like people are getting into her personal space and not respecting her boundaries ...

And it's really not that she has a big PHYSICAL-space bubble. She actually loves and seeks out physical touch and likes intense, rambuntious contact with others. But psychologically, she has a really huge bubble wherein she just expects others to leave her alone and respect her choices.

And so far, adults seem to invade this bubble waay more than the little ones in her age-group do.
post #100 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by chfriend View Post
Eureka! I see here why we see this so differently.

I can change the world!! Every little thing that I do can make a difference. I'm willing to endure disappointment and irritation to change the world to a kinder and better place.

I hope my children feel the same way.
I don't disagree that I can make a difference. But, I can only control what I do. I cannot force anyone else to do anything. My child can want with all her heart for everyone to call her "Princess", but neither she nor I can force anyone else to do so. So I'd rather help her have realistic expectations where she gets to control what she can control - her reaction.

We, and many of our friends, have the colored pastic IKEA plates. In our house, we allow and honor requests for specific colored plates. Not everyone else does. Some of our friends will serve food on the first 3 plates they grab and kids get what they get. So we've taught DD that in some situations she can control what colored plate she gets. Her grandparents are even willing to let her change her mind after they've put the food on a plate (we draw the line when the food touches the plate). We've taught her that there is never any harm is asking for a specific color, but that not all people will go along with it. It has caused some tears on playdates, but she's figured it out. She gets the color she wants 95% of the time, and deals the rest of the time.
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