Is is ever ok for a non-parent to offer advice or express concern? - Page 2

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by Toolip

Thank you so much for sharing your experience and I'm so sorry for your loss! That was a very comforting post to me. And thank you for pointing out that the fact they are spending time together is positive even if it is with video games. That is good perspective to be reminded of.

What helped you when you were going through this? Did you like other distractions? Or having people take the kids? One friend wants to sign the kid up for swim lessons with a friend but the dad is not finishing the paperwork, I think he wants to do it, he's just having a hard time following through and I don't want to push him too much.

My situation was complicated by the physical recovery (long labour, emergency section). I really couldn't do anything for the first week or so.

What else helped? hmm...the big things were help with practical stuff. DH and I managed to look after the kids pretty well, but we were hopeless at cleaning and cooking and laundry. We'd just lose track of things. The kids needed things now, but other day-to-day stuff could get lost in the shuffle. I think with the swim lessons, it might we worth it to offer to just fill it all out, and shove it under his nose and say, "sign here". Filling out the simplest forms was almost overwhelming for me - I just didn't have that much focus and ability to concentrate.

Good luck. I think they're lucky to have a friend like you.

[Toolip]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

My situation was complicated by the physical recovery (long labour, emergency section). I really couldn't do anything for the first week or so.

What else helped? hmm...the big things were help with practical stuff. DH and I managed to look after the kids pretty well, but we were hopeless at cleaning and cooking and laundry. We'd just lose track of things. The kids needed things now, but other day-to-day stuff could get lost in the shuffle. I think with the swim lessons, it might we worth it to offer to just fill it all out, and shove it under his nose and say, "sign here". Filling out the simplest forms was almost overwhelming for me - I just didn't have that much focus and ability to concentrate.

Good luck. I think they're lucky to have a friend like you.

So, the part about the swimming lessons. That's how I tend to be And it was a very valuable skill back when she was dying and he could barely handle getting dressed in the morning. Now though, I feel like I need to step back and let him take care of his own business. Maybe it's too soon though, and he would still appreciate a little more aggressive help for things like that. It's very hard to know when pushiness will be appreciated! lol

I knew what to do when the crisis was in the moment. It's the long-term part that is harder for me to figure out, I guess.

[Storm Bride]

You could just ask him if he wants you (or the other friend) to fill it out for him. That leaves it a little more in his lap, but doesn't leave him dealing with the papers.

Three months isn't terribly long-term for something like this.

[Toolip]

Wow, thanks for all the thought out responses! I totally appreciate it. I want to respond to everyone and I'm not trying to argue or be stubborn in my pov, I'm just trying to really understand where you're coming from

Originally Posted by denimtiger

You are doing an amazing service for this man and his little boy. Just be careful with yourself. Emotionally, you DO have an agenda. You do have a picture in your head of how you think it should be going, and what healthy looks like. You do have an emotional agenda for this little boy. You think you know how he should be "processing", and who he should be spending time with, and that he should be getting back to "normal" 4-year-old boy things -- or at least the things that his life was before this happened.

Ok, ok. So I do have an agenda Actually, what I meant was that I try to make sure that my agenda is not just servicing my need to do something. That's all I was trying to explain. Because for sooo may people who came to help, that was all they were doing and it was specifically against the wishes of the husband and family.

As far as "normality" and hanging out with his old friends... Everyone that I have talked to (hospice people mostly) emphasize it soooo much. It is one of the only things that was repeated in every book that I read, to keep the kid involved in things that they were before. So I guess that's why I think that he should.

It is too early to decide if anything is unhealthy coping. And the (harsh) reality is that as long as the child's basic needs are met, and dad is coherent and attending to him, even if it is unhealthy coping, there is nothing you can do about it.

I don't mean to sound arrogant or like some sort of super hero (though I'd love to be ) but what do you mean by this? Myself and some other friends had to interviene with a common friend of ours when they were in a bad situation and it absolutely made a difference. She got help and she's living a much happier life. I'm not saying that I did that, but I think that people can help each other.

You are clearly very involved with this family. Your help, I am sure, has been very invaluable to them in this time of need. At some point, though, you do need to understand that this is their family and that they are going to do this their way. Making the transition from mom's best friend who had inside access to all of the goings-on and whose advice was valued, to "outsider" helping dad as much as possible is a rough one. Your friend is no longer there to validate your advice and experience. And you need to undestand that getting through THAT part of it is also going to be a part of your own grief process.

I actually wasn't her best friend and I think that it made it easier for me to be so closely involved. Now I'm definitely on the "inside" but I've never been a decision maker, I asked his dad before we did anything that might need "approval." We are in a strange transition right now and it does make it hard.

Originally Posted by lolar2

In addition to everything else said here, he's 4? When I was 5 I had a best friend, and then she moved and we never saw one another again. However, as of a few months ago I found her on Facebook and we're in touch. Rekindling of even early-childhood friendships is pretty easy nowadays, if it's really worthwhile.

Wow, that's cool that you reconnected with your friend!

My thought was just that losing his mom doesn't mean that he also has to lose all his friends at the same time. Maybe I put too much value on a 4 y/o friendship.

Originally Posted by Tigerchild

Do you think that perhaps you feeling posessive of them is tempering your view a bit? You mention there are other friends wanting to be involved in their lives, but that is wrong until some point in the future Wheras I presume you feel that *you* are the right person right now.

Hummm. I don't think that I'm feeling possessive at all. I would love for them to have more people involved. I'm the only one that he will answer the phone for (of her old friends) so that's why I'm the person. I'm glad that they have let me help them, SO glad, but I certainly don't think that others are not the right people to help.


It has been 3 months since this man lost his life partner, and this boy lost his mom. 3 months. It's only been 3 months since you lost your friend. I am sure, being a "doer" that you want to do something that will make things better. But you CAN'T. That is not in your power. *You cannot make things better for them right now*. Even if you were to obliterate all consoles from teh face of the earth forevermore.

Again, at the risk of having a super hero complex There are things I can do to make things easier for them. And I'm doing them. I take them dinner, I take the kid when I can, and I listen to her old friends cry so that he doesn't have to. These are all things that I know help them and I feel good about it. I know that I can't make it ALL better and I don't *think* that I'm trying to

I think you need to keep gently supporting them as you have been. I also think that perhaps you might want to consider forming some community with mom's other friends and encouraging their involvement as well. That way you don't get tricked into feeling that you should have more control than you ought, and so that perhaps you can see that it's okay if other people share in helping to care for the family left behind. Very hard to let go when it's most comforting to feel like you have some measure of "in chargeness".

He has slammed the door on all of her old friends. They all call me and cry about how he won't answer the phone. I mention to him that they would like to hang out with the kid, or whatever it may be and he gets mad and defensive because of old feelings about them.

Originally Posted by kcstar

This.

The dad sounds a lot like my husband. With me around, we limit TV and video games. If something were to happen to me, that probably is how he would cope too. Gamer friends ARE people, and some of them may well have children of their own.

Oh man, I didn't mean to imply that gamers aren't people However, they aren't really the kids friends and they don't have kids. I mean really, they're my friends too, and I love them, but they don't offer much interaction with a 4 y/o.




If/when you take him for a few hours, I would suggest the transitions recommended earlier. Let him know that you'll be doing something else, and then show him how fun that non-video game activity is.

We do transition. I call ahead and when I get there I never just rip him away. I play with him for a while. Then I stop and go gather up his stuff, tell him we're leaving in x minutes and it's still a struggle. I know what it's like to be hooked on games (at least for me) and I know it's easy to forget that there's a whole real-life world out there and I get it that it's hard to be torn away and I also get it that the real world hasn't been so great to him lately. It doesn't really matter how fun the activity that we're going to do is but I do make sure that we always have fun so that he wants to come out into the non-digital world more.

Also, where are grandparents in this picture? Any chance that they are around and able to help out? Or that the boy could visit for a while?

They're shut out also and they're having a REALLY hard time with that. Her parents were very judgmental of him when they were first married (and they still are) and he cannot handle them.

Originally Posted by GuildJenn

I mean in your thoughts, in terms of easing up. You've decided that a life with gamer friends playing video games is not right for this family - and although I think ideally there's definitely some truth in that, by deciding that and making it a symbol of illness that he doesn't want to go to the beach right now or that his dad isn't maintaining the playgroups you want, you are being quite harsh and judgmental.

Those were just examples. The only thing that seems like a problem is that they are only doing one thing all day. And isn't is a sign of illness when you don't want to do things that you used to enjoy?
.

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by Toolip

Those were just examples. The only thing that seems like a problem is that they are only doing one thing all day. And isn't is a sign of illness when you don't want to do things that you used to enjoy?

It can be. But it can also be a perfectly normal part of the grief process. Don't buy into the drug ads.

Or at 4, it can just be the age - my son doesn't enjoy the things he did three months ago a lot of the time, 'cause he's four and his tastes are changing quickly.

I'm not taking issue with you personally - I really admire how caring you are. But I do think that our culture has a script around how people are supposed to "move on" and my experience is it doesn't work that way and it is okay.

[Storm Bride]

Those were just examples. The only thing that seems like a problem is that they are only doing one thing all day. And isn't is a sign of illness when you don't want to do things that you used to enjoy?

Grieving can look a lot like mental illness. Irrational (or rational, for that matter) anger, lack of motivation/depression, denial, etc. etc. are all quite normal parts of the grief spiral. That doesn't make them signs of mental illness. It just means that grief, while a perfectly normal part of human experience, doesn't much resemble what we call "mentally healthy".

[puddleduck]

Just a thought but could the transition thing be down to not wanting to leave his dad? I could see how they would both need to be physically near each other at the moment.

You sound like a great friend, just take it slowly and they will come out of the other end in time.

[LROM]

First off, to answer your very first question: YES, it's absolutely ok for a non-parent to express concerns to a parent about a child's wellbeing. Some parents may not respect your opinion because you're a non-parent, but it is always always always ok for a CARING person to offer words of concern and support to someone they care about, regardless of who is who and what is what.

As for the specifics of your situation, I guess I would go at it from a whole different angle. Have you had any frank conversations with the dad about how he's feeling in general? How he's doing, does he feel he has the supports he needs, is he worried about anything? And then listen, since it sounds like you were friends before all this happened.

Then in another conversation, I'd tell the father what you've observed re: the son's time in video games, and maybe tell the dad that you're concerned because you know on the one hand that they're fun and that he seems to be having a good time playing them, but on the other hand sometimes being as immersed as the son is in the games can delay processing the major, monumental loss he's just experienced in losing his mom.

I'm not saying distraction and diversion isn't a totally appropriate thing to crave and have in this case - it is. But there IS such a thing as too much. And while you're not the person who gets to decide where the line is, as someone who cares about the son and the father, you DO get to offer some thoughts on trying to get the son to cut down on them, and also maybe going back to school (a new school), since socializing with kids his own age may also help him to process his loss and channel his energy into more productive things.

I lost my mom at a very young age, and while video games weren't really an option then I can definitely relate to the desire to immerse yourself in something that takes your mind off such a huge, giant life change and loss. But I'm SO GRATEFUL that my dad kept me focused on school and I stayed in close touch with my friends and tried to keep doing the things I'd done before.

It's totally understandable that dad is grieving and maybe he was a gamer to the point of contention in the marriage because he's got other things going on that gaming provides an escape from. But the truth is the pain and the hurt and the fears and anything else negative does NOT go away with more gaming... it just gets shelved in some ways but it's always there and it's always having an impact.

Ask your friend/the dad what he hopes for for his son, whether even in the midst of this big loss he's thought about what the best path is for his son to get the best life, and whether he'd consider helping his son to focus on some other activities as a way of giving him other channels to both learn and develop as well as process the loss.

Basically I'm mainly suggesting you talk to the dad, first about how he's doing himself, and then about how you know they're majorly grieving but you're also worried about the son not socializing with kids his age and going to school since those can be important ways for him to develop skills and behaviors that he's going to need as life goes along.

Last thing, maybe ask if you can take the son somewhere where a group of kids will be, and invite the friend and her kid who you said dad doesn't talk to. I'm not saying hide the friend from dad, but maybe just make it a group event and if dad asks who's coming, you tell him, but otherwise it's just a day in the park with a bunch of kids.... if the son really enjoys seeing that friend again, then mention it to dad and ask if they can have a regular play date.

It's all about checking in with dad on a lot of things, but mainly acknowledging how incredibly difficult this all must be and asking how he's doing.

[lolar2]

One other thought, you mentioned that the father is not working right now. Is he anticipating working in the near-ish future? I wonder if he is deliberately trying to spend extra time with his son until he starts working again. And if that's the case, wouldn't the situation resolve naturally when the father starts working again and the son needs to go to some sort of daycare? Or at any rate a nanny or babysitter who probably will not be a gamer?