Helping a 7-year-old go to her own bed and stay there all night? (long, sorry)

[ProtoLawyer]

Ugh.

Major sleep regression.

My 7-year-old stepdaughter full-time co-sleeps with her mom when she's there, and recently, she feels that's what she should be doing at our place (she's with us often). (For context: Mom has a king bed, no other children, and no partner, so there's plenty of room. This is also fairly recent--both mom and dad co-slept with her at least part-time, from the time they separated through preschool; her mom had a lot of success getting her to sleep in her own bed around kindergarten. I don't know what precipitated this full-time co-sleeping--they still have the same apartment, same beds,etc., but it has been verified by her mom.)

For us? No. Just no. If she's in the (queen-sized) bed, nobody sleeps but her (and she doesn't sleep well). She tosses, turns, grunts, snores, kicks, and forces everyone to sides of the bed. She's not abnormally huge or anything, but she does take up disproportionate space. Up until 6 months ago, she would come into our room around 2-3 and sleep with us until morning, until even that got unbearable. So, we transitioned her out. For several months, it's worked well.

Not anymore--either she wakes up and sobs, or wakes up, comes into our room, and sobs when she's escorted back. She can be up, noisily, for an hour. Or more. At 2 a.m. As I'm 9-ish weeks pregnant (she doesn't know yet), I've been getting up to use the bathroom at night and that's woken her. A cat sneezing across the street will wake her. And it starts the cycle. Bleh.

She used to go to sleep by herself. Now, she won't, but if someone's with her, she wants to talk for hours and will force herself to stay awake (and will be a wreck the next day). We've fallen into a pattern of stay with her for awhile, leave, let the sobbing ensue for a few minutes, and then come back and she'll eventually crash. It seems to be the only way she'll sleep.

Our previous technique--simply talking to her during the day and reinforcing things at night--has not worked here. We've gotten clenched fists, stomping, and the ever present, "but my MOOOOOOHHHMMMMY lets me."

I'm 9-ish weeks pregnant and if I don't sleep, my morning/evening/all-day sickness is HORRIBLE. If I do sleep, I can function. I WOH full-time and need to function. I also don't want her back in our bed because, although I don't intend to full-time bed-share with my new LO, I understand it will happen sometimes (and I will be nursing) and it'll just be too crowded and unsafe to have a kicking, whining, snuffling almost-8-year-old in bed with a newborn.

Yes, a lot of this is pregnancy hormones--I could deal better if I was more even-keeled and not fearing being up every hour on the hour with a newborn, and every hour on the half hour with a third grader.

Help please. Thanks.

[luvmybaby333]

I had to transfer my then 4-year-old to her own bed full time when I was pregnant. We always done this "go to bed in your own bed and the wake up and come to my bed thing" and she was quite set in her ways. However, I was miserable and pregnant. All we had to sleep on at the time was a full-sized futon on the floor. It was miserable enough without a wiggly 4-year-old poking into my back.

What we did was buy her a special calendar and some tiny stickers. We told her that for every night that she sleep all the way through in her own bed she would get a sticker. Once she'd collected 7 of those stickers she could pick out a toy from the store ($Tree.) If she managed to collect 7 in a ROW, then she would get a special trip. We were living in Colorado during the winter, so the best thing in her mind (aside from Chucky Cheese) was a trip to McDonald's for a Happy Meal and play time in their play area for as long as she wanted.

It took about a month but she eventually got it. At first I would gently remind her of the stickers when she did come into my room in the middle of the night (if she woke me up) and let her decide what she wanted to do. Then it got to the point that she would walk into my room, realize what she was doing, then stop herself and say she just wanted to give me a hug but she was going back to her room to sleep so that she could get a sticker. LOL. After so long of that she just stopped coming in hardly at all. It was amazing how fast it worked (for me) because this kid had been waking up once a night to join me in bed since she was 6 months old.

I'm not sure how it would work for your situation as you don't have your DSS all the time... but it's worth a shot!

[ProtoLawyer]

We've tried sticker charts for other things in the past...and she would start off well at first, and then say, "it's OK, I don't want a sticker." (She's also started trying to figure out what sort of consequences will happen if she doesn't listen, so she can decide if the misbehavior would be worth it anyway.) I'm wondering if there isn't some sort of way to revisit it, though. Thanks for the suggestion.

Yeah, one of the problems here is lack of consistency with the back and forth--there's obviously not much we can do about it (that is, if we ever want to see her/not get dragged into court).

I would like to make this transition work well before the baby's here, so she doesn't feel displaced (any more than she already might, anyway).

[Maluhia]

I'm wondering if it's stress induced or she senses something going on with you even if she does not know you are pregnant.

At that age I think I'd work on giving her a tape player or something to listen to books on tape in her room, etc. Reward charts that have rewards she wants (can be ever changing) rather than stickers - maybe working up to experiences? I'm always having to negotiate rewards as my DD is also quite able to give up on something like stickers, etc.

Also, what about having your DH cosleep with her in HER bed in the a.m. hours?

Def. sitting down during the day and expaining that these are the rules at your home and although you are willing to give her a hug, etc. that she will need to sleep in her own bed at your house. That argument in the middle of the night likely does not make sense to her half awake brain but maybe in the daytime?

[ProtoLawyer]

Maluhia, this did start before I even got PG, but I suspect she may have connected the dots anyway. Or maybe something's going on with her mom or at school or wherever and she's bringing it here? Dunno. It's worth exploring.

She does have a radio/CD player and for several months, was able to fall asleep listening to the Beatles, but now she won't.

As for my husband co-sleeping with her, that's a non-starter as far as he's concerned (for some valid reasons, that I won't get into for privacy reasons, but they're beyond "I want to sleep with my wife" and "she's really too old for this").

I do agree we need more reinforcement during waking hours. We did try explaining everything during the day, and it started off OK, but it's degenerated.

I suspect no matter what we do now, a lot will change once the baby's here anyway (if the baby keeps waking her up--or if she keeps waking the baby)...

[Peony]

My soon to be 7 year is very similar. I'm not the best one to give advice because we've given up trying to get her to sleep alone. DH and I went to separate rooms so DD1 sleeps with him or else she wakes up baby DS all night long. We did get her into a separate bed which works as long as DH is still in the room. Once upon a time she used to put her self to bed and then sleep there all night with no problems for several months and then everything backtracked and it got REALLY bad.


You mentioned that your DD will try to keep herself awake, oh BTDT. DD1 eventually got herself into a state of insomnia that took many months to break. At that point we resorted to letting her watch a movie on an iPod so that the rest of us could sleep.


We've done the charts, rewards, positive reinforcement during the day, behavioral/play therapy, we had special music that she would sleep to before bed, she sleeps with a white noise machine, we've seen or talked to what feels like what feels like way too many "professionals", nothing has ever worked.

The only thing I can think of right now, is it possible to set up a sleeping bag on the floor for when she wakes up, she can crawl into? I hope she moves through this cycle sooner then later, I know how tough it is to be doing this while pg.

[ProtoLawyer]

Originally Posted by Peony

The only thing I can think of right now, is it possible to set up a sleeping bag on the floor for when she wakes up, she can crawl into? I hope she moves through this cycle sooner then later, I know how tough it is to be doing this while pg.

That would be ideal, except for when the baby comes, the only spot where a crib in our room could go (which is what we intend) would be the only spot where the sleeping bag goes, and we really don't want to do the whole "we're kicking you out for the baby" thing...sigh...

I'm no good at Furniture Tetris, though...maybe my husband (or, heck, my stepdaughter--she's pretty good at it!) can rearrange the bed and dressers and make things work better.

[Altair]

The thing with behaviorism (if you want to go that route, not saying you should) is that the reward has to be something the child actively *wants* or it doesn't work. It's 100% about the buy-in. It can take awhile to figure out a system that works. Some kids don't respond to getting to buy a toy, but they respond to something creative-- a movie date with dad, princess tea time at a hotel that serves tea, or even a ticket to pick any number of previously agreed on prizes (that she helped pick) that are written on index cards and put in a fancy bucket.

[Maluhia]

It is perfectly reasonable that your DH is not comortable sleeping alone with her at this age, he's used to the family group and his alone with you sleeping and she IS older sot here are all sorts of risks of people misunderstanding the relationship.

She's old enough to attempt some reverse psychology - ask HER what the solution is to have her stay the night in her own bed. Something along the lines of "this night waking and coming to our bed is not working for your father and I anymore, what can we do to help you spend the nights in your own bed?" Maybe if it's her idea she'll follow it more?

[pinky]

I was just going to throw out there that my dd had some pretty dramatic sleep regressions at about 7, and she's not the only one among her friends. She slept happily and independently from about 2.5, and then suddenly was terrified to sleep alone. In our case, the difficulty was only at bedtime, since once she was asleep, she stayed that way.

We're well over that hump, but nightlights and such are still important to her.

I realize that this is a different situation than yours, but just wanted to throw out that there may be a developmental component as well.

good luck!

[confustication]

Honestly, at seven I feel they're old enough to understand boundaries, and I think it's important to enforce those boundaries. My daughter wasn't thrilled sleeping in her room, so instead of looking at it as a matter of forcing her, we decided to change things around (with her input) so it was a place she really wanted to sleep. Of course, in our case, that means she got to have a hammock in her room, a cool psychedelic nightlight and stories on cd at night to help her unwind.... (after she reads on her own. )

[LynnS6]

Originally Posted by pinky

I was just going to throw out there that my dd had some pretty dramatic sleep regressions at about 7, and she's not the only one among her friends. She slept happily and independently from about 2.5, and then suddenly was terrified to sleep alone.

We had a similar sleep regression at 7.5 with ds. The good news is that it's resolved. The 'bad news' is that it took about a year.

I would strongly suggest that you find a place for her on the floor. There is room for her, even if it's at the foot of the bed and you have to step over her. That's what we've done with our children.

There's not a lot of space on the floor in our room. If they both want to be with us, one of them has to be right next to my side of the bed and one at the foot of the bed. There is no way for me to get out of bed without stepping on one of them, and getting to the bathroom necessitates stepping over the other (i.e. stepping on them on my way to the bathroom).

I think there's a strong developmental component and a strong power struggle going on there with her. You aren't going to be able to overcome both.

I would start the move to the foot of the bed now, long before you tell your step daughter that you're pregnant. You can tell her the truth: "Daddy's not sleeping, I'm not sleeping and you're not sleeping well with three of us in the bed. Our bed is too small. So, you can choose to be in your comfy bed or on the floor in our room."

If she whines and moans at the change (she will, kids don't like change), be sympathetic. Tell her you understand but that at 7, she's just too big to fit in the bed. She doesn't have to be alone, but the bed is too small. Repeat ad nauseum for several weeks.

[Kailey's mom]

My mother was a single mom, and I have NEVER in MY LIFE slept in my own bed. I also had some security issues, well actually more sensory to look back, but even if I slept at a friends house, I would end up in their parents bed. I was TERRIFIED to sleep alone. Because of my history, my advice is to let her sleep with you, even if she has to sleep on the other side of the bed next to dh.; or make her a special little bed in your room. I doubt she's doing it to be a pain in the butt.. I know I didn't. My mom would get so flustrated that she would lock me out, and I would melt down uncontrolably until she gave in. I could not help it. She still has a need IMO. I could be talking out of pure emotion, but who knows if she has the same feeling I did as a child. I felt unwanted, insecure, and fearful if I slept alone... these feeling were escalated if I was forced to. Just something to think about.

I have also been, kindof, where you are at also. when I was pregnant, I wanted to be left alone, I was so sick, and would even get angry with the cat if she started howling and woke me up.

I hope it all works out. Maybe start out by having a heart to heart with your dss.. dont' bring up at all how you want her out of the bed, but instead ask her how she feels when she is in your bed, and then ask her how she feels when she's not.

Hugs!

[griffin2004]

a crying baby made my 7y.o. DD choose to move out of my room into her own room

short of that, move her to the floor in your room now

[ProtoLawyer]

Well, we tried the sleeping bag thing and it was a disaster. It was worse than just trying to settle her while she sobbed for an hour.

She was up what seemed like every couple of minutes, playing with the dog or trying to come into our bed then getting VERY mad when her dad let her know she could sleep in her bed or on the floor but not in her room...she'd lay there sniffling and moaning (not actually crying, seeming just angry/stubborn rather than scared) in what seemed like a deliberate attempt to get our attention... and occasionally singing the "I love my mommy more than you" song. As a PP said, it's both a power struggle and a developmental thing, but right now, it seems all power struggle.

Yeah. I have to work today and I'm at my desk trying not to pass out or puke.

I'm really loathe to give this more tries--I have to work tomorrow, too. Any suggestions? Tough it out a few more days, send her back to her room and that's that, something else?

[Maluhia]

I think I'd try a few more days if you can stand it at all - the consistency in the face of the power struggle parts is really huge. If she learns by one night of being near your bed but not in it makes ProtoMama move out of her DH's bed to get better sleep she'll see a crack in the armor and do MORE of that sort of thing to get her way. Any way you can get some help with being able to take naps these days that you are putting up a strong front overnight?

[ProtoLawyer]

Originally Posted by Maluhia

I think I'd try a few more days if you can stand it at all - the consistency in the face of the power struggle parts is really huge. If she learns by one night of being near your bed but not in it makes ProtoMama move out of her DH's bed to get better sleep she'll see a crack in the armor and do MORE of that sort of thing to get her way. Any way you can get some help with being able to take naps these days that you are putting up a strong front overnight?

Thanks. Consistency. Yeah.

I've not really been able to nap--not even on Christmas, when there was nobody home and nothing to do. It's bizarre--I'm exhausted but if it's daytime I can't sleep.

Also, I WOH full-time, so by the time I get home, it's already dinnertime. My husband has been handling bedtime so I can rest a bit, and that's helpful.

ProtoMama. Hee. I guess that's accurate now, too!

[bscal]

I just wanted to post and offer some moral support. My older DD is also 7 and going through some tough emotional stuff. She's always been a bit of a 'mama's girl' but she ends up in our bed about 4 nights out of the week. Our 4 yr old DD does too so we wake up most mornings with a bed full of kiddos.

We came up with 'rules' years ago. I tend to get migraines that make me quite ill if I do not get enough good solid sleep. If you cannot respect the rules then you have to sleep in your own bed. Period. Mommy doesn't want to feel sick the next day and quite frankly the kids have learned that when Mommy is sick then everyone has to be quiet and we can't do much in the way of fun activities.

Our rules are as follows:
* If you wish to sleep in my bed then you are NOT allowed to wake me up. (Of course if someone is sick or scared they can wake me... but not just to talk.)
* No kicking, pinching, poking your fingers up Daddy's nose, singing, etc.
* All little girls coming to sleep in my bed must have on panties (pullup for the 4 yr old). I do not want naked hineys in my bed, especially ones that sometimes don't bother wiping (yuck!) - this is also b/c DH does not feel comfortable with nude children sleeping with us.
* If you wake anyone up then you are returned to your own bed.

One thing that we do if we truly need sleep is to bribe them into sleeping in their own beds with the following reward: If you sleep in your own bed every night this week then on Friday night you can have a slumber party with us - we pull in the sleeping bags and pop in a movie in our room. Then we can sleep in on Saturday!

So, another alternative thought is to lay down the rules with her. My 4 yr old understands these rules and follows them, with the exception of the very rare bad dream (which of course is fine to wake up mommy!) She will tiptoe into our room, climb onto the loveseat at the foot of our bed, crawl onto the bed, scoot up to the top and then wiggle into the covers between us. We discover her there in the morning.

The big thing is to go over the ground rules during the day. Explain to her that you and her Daddy need sleep or you'll be grouchy in the morning. Also explain that she can come in IF she can be superduper quiet and not wake you guys up.

7 is a tough age. I know my 7 yr old, like I said, is having a rough time emotionally.

GL,
Beth

[ProtoLawyer]

Well, last night was *much* better. She tried to come into the bed without comment around 2, started humming (which, even at 7, is her way of being quiet), my husband scooped her up, brought her to her room, she whined a sleepy "is this the way you treat someone who had a bad dream?" and immediately conked out and she stayed there until daybreak. (I don't actually remember any of this, but that's what my husband told me.) Let's see if this sticks.

Long ago, my stepdaughter started using the "I had a bad dream" card every night, sometimes twice, to the point where it just couldn't be used as an exception to the "you sleep in your bed" rule. (Also, it was pretty clear from her demeanor that she didn't actually have a bad dream, but wanted in.) Sure, she could come in and get some reassurance, but I think she figured out that it was a loophole big enough to drive a truck through.

[MrsH]

So glad last night was better for you! Seven is just such a tough age, it seems! First, I wanted to empathize with the "mommy loves me better" or "mommy lets me!" Boy I hate hearing those!

Similar to the Friday night slumber party a PP suggested, you could try a Saturday morning lie-in, where you all hang out in bed together reading stories and maybe even having breakfast if she can handle that. It helped our kids to know that there was still space and desire for them, just not while we were trying to sleep.

One last thing that worked with our eldest when she was having a hard time going to sleep in the evenings was to give her 3 tokens every night. Coming to see us would cost her a token. She usually used her first about 2 minutes after being put down but then saved her second two in case she "really needed them." It worked fabulously for her - in less than a month she wasn't using any and now she rarely comes in anymore. Oh and we also had a rule about not getting into our bed, though a bedside hug and snuggle was fine.

All the best!