Rotavirus Vaccine- Torn as to what to do, please help...

[PCARN]

Hi- My baby is 30 weeks old and has received two doses of the rotavirus vaccine. She was due for her last dose last week but I refused because I've been reading online that intussuception (sp?) is still a risk??? From what I read it's a small risk, but still...

I'm torn and confused as to what is best to do for her. I worked on a pediatric unit five years ago and saw countless babies/children admitted for rotavirus. The vaccine wasn't available at that time. I also came down with a bad case of it. At that time I didn't know much about vaccines side effects, adverse reactions, etc. Just that it was given for many years (yes, naive I know...).

My daughter had an adverse reaction after her first round of shots (pentacel and rotavirus). The reaction that she had I was told (and read) was rare (1 in 1,000); she had inconsolable screaming for about three hours. We were scared beyond belief and since then I've been doing a lot of research and more reading about vaccines and am alarmed at what's in them and what the possible reactions that could occur. Yet I'm also concered about the viruses and bacteria that vaccines protect from. Not so much polio and such that are not prevelant but for the viruses and bacterias that are around.

I've spaced out the vaccines that she has received and have refused others (hep b, etc.). I'm confused about what to do about the last rotavirus dose. I recently read online that there is still a risk of intussception from the newer vaccines??? When making the new vaccines, how can they say for sure that they knew what caused the original problem (changing from monkey kidney cells to bovine kidney cells which I might add in itself is concerning)? According to what I read the risk is very low compared to catching the virus. I've read several vaccine books (Dr. Sears', Dr. Cave', Neil Miller). Dr. Cave's book was written in 2001 so there is no information regarding the newest rotavirus vaccines. Neil Miller's book doesn't say much about it compared to the tons of alarming information on the other vaccines, and Dr. Sears' recommends it. I've been trying to follow Dr. Sears' selective vaccine schedule and the rotavirus vaccine is on it.

Has anyone stopped before the three dose was given? In particular after two doses? Does anyone know if there is immunity developed after two doses? Also, is the risk still the same if two doses were already given (with the third)? I would think so because each dose if just that- another dose. Has anyone had any issues after vaccinating with this vaccine? Or any issues by not vaccinating?

I want to do what is best for my baby and protect her. I only have a couple of weeks left to decide before the cut off for the vaccine and I pray that I make the right decision for my baby.

I would really appreciate if you would share your experiences with me as I am so confused and torn as what to do. I hope I didn't make a mistake by refusing the last dose (and not sure what to do next; give or not).

One last question; how does one avoid rotavirus? Is it strictly spread by contact (oral/fecal)? I read it can also be spread by saliva??? My baby is breastfed and doesn't attend day care.

Thank you so much in advance.

[Plaid Leopard]

Just a quick reply as I've got cupcakes in the over -

Rotavirus is pretty common, but if your baby is BF then not in daycare she probably won't come in contact with it for a while. If she does get it, the best thing for it is continuing to breastfeed to avoid dehydration. Dehydration is the major risk of RV as I'm sure you know, but is easily treatable if caught early.

The good thing (if one can say there is a good thing) about catching Rv is that eventually you gain natural immunity. Myself and all my kids have had RV - the first time is the worst, then the next couple of times just mild yet stinky diarrhea, then after that immunity. The last time my youngest got it my older kids and I did not.

[Emmeline II]

We no longer vaccinate; neither of my children received the rotavirus vaccine. My second child has not received any vaccinations.

The risk with this disease is dehydration.

According to most doctors, ALL vaccine reactions are "rare." In anycase, it happened to your child; it appears that cry encephalitis happened to your child.

[Gitti]

We don't vaccinate at all. Our four grandchildren are 12, 6, 4 and 8 mo.

The only infections (that are supposedly to be prevented by vaccines) that these kids had were chicken pox which was so mild the child didn't even know he had it and rotovirus which was bad for 2 days during which my caughter just breast fed the child as much as possible. No doctor visit, no hospital. Just used common sense.

Compare that to the possibility of a vaccine reaction to any one of the kids ....that would be 4 kids each receiving some 40 vaccines....well, I can only say I am so glad my kids don't vaccinated their children.

No allergies, no asthma, no autoimmune issues at all. No long term suffering...

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by Emmeline II

According to most doctors, ALL vaccine reactions are "rare." In anycase, it happened to your child; it appears that cry encephalitis happened to your child.

H. Coulter covered that in his book A Shot In The Dark. That book is really worth reading.

[MaddieMay]

Oh gosh, you did not make a mistake by refusing the last vaccine. Yes, Dr. Sears recommends it and I have a lot of respect for him, but rotavirus vax being on his selective/delayed schedule is one point I disagree with him on.

[nataliachick7]

I dont vax. but even if i did some vaxs i def. would not do rotavirus. It is a live vaccine, thus it can cause rotavirus. no thanks!

[MaterPrimaePuellae]

Even my mainstream ped. told me that DD did not need the vax if she was not in daycare and breastfeeding. My realtor's son got the full vax series and still caught the virus. DD and I caught the worst virus I have ever had from a pair of her fully-vaxed friends, so *either* it was something else and still awful (so the vaccine would not have helped us), or the vaccines didn't work for them, either.

[nataliachick7]

Originally Posted by MaterPrimaePuellae

Even my mainstream ped. told me that DD did not need the vax if she was not in daycare and breastfeeding. My realtor's son got the full vax series and still caught the virus. DD and I caught the worst virus I have ever had from a pair of her fully-vaxed friends, so *either* it was something else and still awful (so the vaccine would not have helped us), or the vaccines didn't work for them, either.

sounds like it worked to me! u got a live virus from a live vaccine!

[KimberlyD0]

My opinion is differnt then most here.

I nearly lost my Second DD to the Rotavirus. She was literally on deaths door. She IS BF and was EBF at the time She did NOT go to daycare either. Yet she was dieing from it anyway. She lost 7lbs in 4 days.

Future children will have the vaccine.

[japonica]

Neither of my children were vaccinated for rota. My DD is 5 years old and has never had rotavirus. She was BF until 3.5 yrs old and only started playschool at 4 years. My son is 20 months and has not had it either. I know some people reckon she must have had it and we didn't know it was rota, but considering she's only had a single episode of diarrhea in her 5 years and reading how unpleasant rota tends to be, I think we'd notice. LOL.

It's one that we crossed off our list early. We never had the vaccine as children (my husband and I) and we didn't feel it was necessary for our kids.

I think you have to go with your instincts. If she's had two doses already, then she has probably received some protection from it. And if she has had a reaction, then that would definitely need to factor into your decision as well.

Yes, there is still a risk of intussception with the newer vax but it was deemed to be an acceptable level and "safe."

Good luck with what you decide...

[VTnurse]

My son got Rotavirus when he was approximately 9 months old. He is EBF and does not attend daycare. We knew that he was quickly becoming dehydrated, but he would not drink... as much as we tried. We ended up being admitted to the hospital for IV hydration. Do I regret not getting the vaccine? At the time I was kicking myself... especially when all the 'mainstream' pediatricians at the hospital were treating me poorly once they knew I didn't vaccinate. Well, two weeks later... our friends (who live 500 miles away and whom we hadn't seen) had their son who IS vaccinated come down with the virus. He ended up hospitalized as well. At that moment, I knew I had made the right choice. Just because you vaccinate doesn't make you immune. I wont vaccinate my next one either.

[MyBoysBlue]

Mumps can be bad.
The flu can be bad.
Chicken pox can be bad.
Rotavirus can be bad.

All illnesses have a worse case scenario. We have to figure out for ourselves what is the likelihood of having to deal with a "bad" case? The question is whether we want to accept the risk of vaccinating or the risk of the illness.

[Kailey's mom]

Just say no.

[Deborah]

It is a tricky balance with childhood illnesses. The milder the illness, the safer the vaccine has to be to have a reasonable risk-benefit relationship.

Where I get frustrated is the way this reasonable problem is handled by the CDC and friends. Rather than making vaccines and the practice of vaccination as safe as possible, they focus on blowing the risk of illness out of proportion.

Mumps in childhood is incredibly mild. Vaccinating for mumps is therefore an extreme measure and certainly shouldn't be routine.

Rotavirus is fairly mild in most children living in developed countries. Should the vaccine be routine in that population?

[lurve]

today i saw a set of three couples i know. within each of these couples at least one of the parents is a doctor (one is an OB, two are pediatricians). All of their young children go to the same day care center. Each child (five in total) got a severe case of "diarhea" that lasted for about a week. It was passed from one child to the other (so it wasn't caused by food...). I mentioned that it sounded like the rotavirus. Each said it was impossible because the kids had been vaccinated. I tried to mention to these doctors that vaccination doesn't equal full immunity and they just looked at me. Just wanted to share this most recent experience. I would not vaccinate for it. It doesn't seem to work and doctors don't seem to know how to diagnose it anymore...

[vitochka]

"If you want to not vaccinate then don't, but don't downplay how bad it really CAN be"

I accept that rotavirus can be dangerous in some rare cases for some kids. The manufacturer says it protects from some strains for one whole year. Then a child has to get rotavirus (sometimes several times because of different strains) and get over it to get immunity. If you want to protect your child from rotavirus for the whole one year-then the vaccine may make sense for you (though it is worth to take all the complications into account too). Should it be routine? No. I don't think so.

[KimberlyD0]

Anyone who's child has had Rotavirus can tell by the smell. It has a spacific smell. When we brought DD to the ER the doctor walked in and she had just filled her diaper. She knew from the smell alone what she had.

Just because a child had diarhea that lasted a week doesn't mean its rotavirus.

Originally Posted by vitochka

"If you want to not vaccinate then don't, but don't downplay how bad it really CAN be"

I accept that rotavirus can be dangerous in some rare cases for some kids. The manufacturer says it protects from some strains for one whole year. Then a child has to get rotavirus (sometimes several times because of different strains) and get over it to get immunity. If you want to protect your child from rotavirus for the whole one year-then the vaccine may make sense for you (though it is worth to take all the complications into account too). Should it be routine? No. I don't think so.

Its ment to prevent a child under a year from contracting it as thats when it can cause the most harm. As a child gets older they are less likly to have the serious side effects from the virus.

Taking other procations is also great, but even an EBF baby who is NOT in daycare can still catch it.

[writteninkursive]

Oh Mama. If your child reacted like that to vaccines in the past, I would NEVER give her ANY vaccine again as long as she lived. The screaming and inconsolability are HUGE red flags that what is happening to her is damaging her!
Consider this. My daughter (who is now 4) was given all her scheduled vaccines (because I was stupid and young and didn't know better). By 6 months, she was very advanced speech-wise. She was saying "Mama" and "Dada" and lots of other words. We were so proud. After her third dose of DTaP, she suddenly stopped talking altogether. I was alarmed (but still had no information on vaccines whatsoever). The thing that bothered me most was that she stopped saying "Mama" and "Dada". I could live without her saying the other words she could say, but she HAD to keep saying "Mama" and "Dada"! We went to her pediatrician, and I asked why she had stopped saying things. I was told that "Sometimes babies get bored with words that they have mastered and stop saying them to replace them with other words." What baby stops saying "Mama" and "Dada"??? She didn't replace them with other words. Her speech slowed down and she is now 4 years old and is very behind in speech (and her last vaccine was at 3 years old when her fourth dose of DTaP caused her leg to swell and harden, she got a 104 degree fever, and couldn't walk for a week - which, of course, the ped said, was "normal"). These are the results of subtle vaccine injuries. This isn't the high-pitched screaming, inconsolable reaction. If my child was injured to where her 2-year-old sister talks better than her at 4, I can only imagine what damage is happening to your baby who is reacting very severely!

I have a friend who's 1-year-old daughter received her MMR on schedule. She woke the next morning to find her daughter unresponsive, in a pile of vomit and feces, having seizures. They came to find that she had developed a brain bleed and had a stroke as a result of the MMR vaccine. Her daughter was paralyzed on one side of her body and was mentally retarded from that point on. She never recovered use of her paralyzed limbs and it's been slow progress for her mentally.

I stopped vaccinations mid-progress with my kids. When my oldest had the DTaP reaction, I started digging for info. At first, I came up with all the typical reassurances from the CDC and the AAP. I looked further and discovered the abyss of information about the problems with vaccines. That was the very last time a vaccine was EVER put into any of my kids. I trust that they are biologically well enough to fight off disease. I have faith in our bodies. By pumping ourselves full of foreign substances, dead and live viruses, toxic metals, and animal DNA, we are teaching our bodies NOT to be able to fight off disease. We are causing an absolute epidemic of autoimmune diseases. What does our species have without an immune system? Nothing. We die off, and not of big, scary diseases like Pertussis and Polio. We die of things like pneumonia and colds once our immune systems are compromised. It doesn't hurt a child to stop vaccinating them suddenly. My younger daughter was 9 months old when we stopped vaccinating her. (Thank god we stopped in time to avoid the MMR!) She is fine and dandy. And my 4-month-old son has never had any vaccine of any kind.

[PCARN]

Thank you

Thank you everyone for your replies and for sharing your stories with me. I am sorry to hear about the vaccination reactions and also for the hospitalization caused by the virus.

I am so annoyed at the lack of information and rather I should say, the truth about vaccines. Rotavirus and others. I went on the Rotateq website and was alarmed to see that intussuception (sp?) is still a risk as well as Kawasaki disease. I guess this is their way of covering themselves so to speak? I can't understand how a vaccine that still causes the problem of the original vaccine is still being given. Granted, even if the risk is low it seems that there are still a number of children still being effected by it (going by the reports on the VAERS website). Is there any research or does anyone know how long immunity is good for? And why one of the vaccines requires two doses and the other three? My initial instinct was to skip the last vaccine. Seems that I'm not in the minority even from those that do vaccinate. I'm also not comfortable with a vaccine that has only been out for a little over three years.

I agree that we have to weigh the risk vs. benefit of the vaccine vs. the disease itself. I hope that one day (soon) we have more readily available information as well as rights when it comes to vaccines rather than just being told that they are safe.

Thank you all again so much.

Happy New Year. :-)