need a nap "schedule"

[larzanna]

Hi,

I need some advice as to what nap schedule i should "try" and stick with.
All the books give different examples, but my baby seems to not fit any. I just wanted others thoughts.

He goes to bed at 8pm, and gets up at 5am (umm, ya with wake ups much more than i can handle, 10pm (sometimes) 12, and 2am.

SO, i really need him to consolidate his naps at this point. He is almost 8 months old. But what times should i shoot for?
With in an ideal world him staying in bed later in the AM (oh please) and not getting up as much at night. I feel like if i could get his naps organized that it would help his night sleep, especially what time he thinks he wants up for the day.

Everyone seems to say 2 naps at this point, so what approximate times based on his bedtime and his AM wakeup?

Thanks for your thoughts.
-Larissa

[Peony]

My DS is just a little older by a week or two and generally goes down for a nap 2 hours after he wakes in in the morning. DS could wake up from 6-9 am though, I just watch the clock and nurse or wear him down when it gets to be that time.



With your DS waking up so early, he very well might need 3 naps a day. On days when DS wakes up early, actually most days he takes 3. If the first nap of the day is a short one then I try to put him down another 2 hours after he wakes up. If it is longer then he can stay up more. And it all depends on my schedule, with 3 kids, DS often doesn't get a chance to take good naps.


My advice would be to spend the next couple days watching his cues, when he starts to get tired, note the time, and then see what happens the next day.

[lotus.blossom]

Yeah, forget about the books! I have an almost 8 month old who defies all the books. Up until recently the kid has only taken maybe one nap per MONTH. I'm talking long enough for me to actually wonder if he is still alive. He goes to sleep around 7:30ish and wakes up for the day at 7:30ish and is ready for a nap by 11ish. He might sleep for 30-40 minutes if I'm lucky. Then his next nap is around 4 when he nurses to sleep and I sit with him for about an hour or so. I can't complain about the nighttime though. he sleeps pretty well between 11 and 7.

You'll figure out the timing eventually. One morning and one afternoon nap should work however it coincides with your schedule.

[larzanna]

I know the babies don't follow books, but, What he would do if i were to just let him, would be to take a nap 1.5 hours after he gets up, then again a few hours later, then again around 3?4?5? Its just that we have such sleep problems here. I spend literally 2 hours getting him down for naps...screaming the whole works. No matter if i watch for the cues and get him right away. Honestly i am better off if i wait until i have a sleepy mess of a baby, then he goes right down. But i think that he is just not getting enough sleep because of his early waking, plus when he takes 2+ hours to get down for a nap, i half the time just give up, so he does not get that one either. Sigh. I'm tired, he's tired, its just not working. I guess i just need an idea of what i should be working towardas to try and have things get better.

[LadyCatherine185]

Follow your baby's cues as to when they are tired.

Your baby wakes up 2-3 times a night? That's great at 8 months. My DS woke every 15-30 minutes all night (and yes, was up at 5 AM) at that age.

I suggest finding other ways to feel rested (for us, this means cosleeping and side-nursing, napping with baby, and having DH take the wakeup-7 AM shift so I get a little extra sleep in the morning/also- white noise and blackout curtains) rather than trying to change your baby. Because even if you do, they change so much it probably won't stick.

ETA: Try reading the No Cry Sleep Solution and Sleepless in America. Both have great tips for structuring your day to maximize sleep, as well as realistic expectations for infant's sleep. it will get better. My crappy sleeper now takes one nap a day lasting about 2 hours, and only wakes every 2-3 hours at night.

[lifeguard]

I tried soooooo hard to get ds on a schedule for naps/nights at different points throughout the first year. He just wasn't having it. At 13 months he just naturally fell into a rhythm that works for him. Some babes just take longer to find their rhythm.

[Kelly1101]

Originally Posted by Peony

My advice would be to spend the next couple days watching his cues, when he starts to get tired, note the time, and then see what happens the next day.

This. For a week. Then try to get into a routine that fits.

[curious&eager]

After reading No Cry Sleep Solution, I watched him for his sleepy cues and immediately put him down during those cues, a little nursing and then to bed. Now we went from one short nap to 2-3 longer naps. I haven't won the nighttime yet, but we can now do naps. He goes to bed on average about 11pm and is up at 8am with two feeding breaks. The first nap is 10am-12pm, the second is 3pm-5pm and then the third is at 8pm which is where my nighttime trouble begins. He will not stay alseep after an 8pm nap, but without that nap, he will not go to sleep without a fight. That's what hubby is doing right now with the baby, trying to put him down.

[Kelly1101]

Originally Posted by curious&eager

After reading No Cry Sleep Solution, I watched him for his sleepy cues and immediately put him down during those cues, a little nursing and then to bed. Now we went from one short nap to 2-3 longer naps. I haven't won the nighttime yet, but we can now do naps. He goes to bed on average about 11pm and is up at 8am with two feeding breaks. The first nap is 10am-12pm, the second is 3pm-5pm and then the third is at 8pm which is where my nighttime trouble begins. He will not stay alseep after an 8pm nap, but without that nap, he will not go to sleep without a fight. That's what hubby is doing right now with the baby, trying to put him down.

I haven't read the book, but this is like EXACTLY our schedule (8 months old). Usually the 8pm nap is only 1/2 hour to an hour. Except she doesn't wake up during the night at all-- she's down for that entire time (11pm-midnight until 7:00am-8:00am).

[larzanna]

Originally Posted by curious&eager

After reading No Cry Sleep Solution, I watched him for his sleepy cues and immediately put him down during those cues, a little nursing and then to bed. Now we went from one short nap to 2-3 longer naps. I haven't won the nighttime yet, but we can now do naps. He goes to bed on average about 11pm and is up at 8am with two feeding breaks. The first nap is 10am-12pm, the second is 3pm-5pm and then the third is at 8pm which is where my nighttime trouble begins. He will not stay alseep after an 8pm nap, but without that nap, he will not go to sleep without a fight. That's what hubby is doing right now with the baby, trying to put him down.

This helps.
I have read the NNCS, i do co-sleep/side nurse, DH can't do the AM shift he works. And i just am not able to fall back alseep after being awake. really i sit there for his entire nap just getting mad that i am still awake. Oh and we have white noice and black out curtains.
I just sorta wanted others "schedules" so that i can see what really is working, not just a book (i swear they are written by people who have babies who sleep, and don't fight sleep)
I will get sleepless in america though.
thanks.

[lotus.blossom]

IMO if it takes 2 hrs to get him down for a nap, he's just not needing one then, or you are approaching it in the wrong way. What have you tried doing to get him down? My first would always nurse to sleep, no fail. This guy doesn't. So I have had to get creative. What works is wrapping him up burrito style and hugging him tight while rocking in a rocking chair. What worked before that was wearing him in the sling (beco) till he fell asleep. If I have misread his cues then I abort mission and try again later. Lots of things mess up a routine....teething, developmental milestones...etc. I don't think you can count on a routine till after a year or so.

[Kelly1101]

Originally Posted by lotus.blossom

IMO if it takes 2 hrs to get him down for a nap, he's just not needing one then, or you are approaching it in the wrong way..... If I have misread his cues then I abort mission and try again later.

I agree with this. Before we got settled down into our current schedule, sometimes in my mind I thought she needed a nap, and I would rock her and nurse her and try to get her to go down, and then get frustrated because she wouldn't. When really, she just didn't want to sleep then. Even now, when she's kind of levelled out, it's not like you can set your clock by her-- sometimes I'll be thinking, "oh, time for a nap," but really if she's not asleep within fifteen minutes (we almost always rock in a chair down to sleep, except at bedtime when I get in the bed and nurse her down), she's not ready yet. So we get up and do some more things, then try again in an hour.

Trying to get a baby down for a nap for two hours is one of the most frustrating things in the world, at least in my experience.

[mama2mygirl]

Originally Posted by larzanna

I know the babies don't follow books, but, What he would do if i were to just let him, would be to take a nap 1.5 hours after he gets up, then again a few hours later, then again around 3?4?5? Its just that we have such sleep problems here. I spend literally 2 hours getting him down for naps...screaming the whole works. No matter if i watch for the cues and get him right away. Honestly i am better off if i wait until i have a sleepy mess of a baby, then he goes right down. But i think that he is just not getting enough sleep because of his early waking, plus when he takes 2+ hours to get down for a nap, i half the time just give up, so he does not get that one either. Sigh. I'm tired, he's tired, its just not working. I guess i just need an idea of what i should be working towardas to try and have things get better.

I've had a lot of luck with The No Cry Sleep Solution book. It's super gentle and she has great ideas about gently getting your baby on a schedule.
For what it's worth, my nine-month-old naps at 9 or ten and then around two or three.

[lach]

I would try putting him to bed earlier. My son is a wreck the next day and won't nap if he's not in bed by 6:30 (usually 6), and my daughter went to bed at 6:30 at that age (now she's 2.5 and goes to bed at 7).

It sounds counterintuitive, but I've found that the rule "sleep begets sleep" to be very true. The more sleep they get, the better quality it is. 8 is a pretty late natural bedtime for an 8 month old.

Though he advocates CIO, I found "Healthy Sleep Habits, Healthy Child" by Mark Weissbluth to be a really helpful source in understanding a child's natural sleep rhythm and helping them meet it.

[larzanna]

When i put him to bed earlier he gets up even earlier than 5am!!!!

So this week we are actually working on putting him to bed later....and he has slept till 6am the last 2 days putting him to bed at 8:30. So we are going to continue in 15min increments and see what happens. But it makes for long evenings for me.

I guess as far as naps, i must not know the sleepy cues....i thought that rubbing eyes, fussyness, and clingyness were sleepy signs.....what seems to work better (rather than get him at the first sleepy sign) is if i wait until he is literally falling over from being sleepy, but that makes for a really whiney baby.
he will not nurse to sleep for naps and i do try both wrapped and not wrapped rocking, he won't nap in a sling anymore....i guess i am just at a loss as to WHAT he wants/needs. If he would just tell me.

Anyway, thanks all for the suggestions.....i hope that he gets more organized in the next few months......

[lmclanahan]

Well, I agree that taking 2 hours to get the baby to nap is counterproductive. I have spent a long time with some babies at night to get them to sleep, but that is longer than the nap will even last. No wonder you are frustrated!
I have five children, all different as far as sleeping has gone. All exclusively nursed, family bed, etc. At 8 months, none were on a completely predictable schedule except for my current 3-4 month old, lol. She sleeps more now than the others did at a year. Weird.
My others just didn't have a schedule that was by the clock. None napped past age 2 without staying up past midnight as a result.
If your baby is *getting up* at 5 am, what do you do? I would just stay in bed and offer to nurse again. Put toys on the floor and stay in bed yourself, showing it is not wake-up time. It is harder when they are mobile, I know. I remember holding a little heel, in case I fell asleep. Create a safe place for baby and you can still rest.
In my own life, I would try for 15 minutes tops. If baby is still awake, give up for a while. Two hours would have me pulling my hair out, trying to be patient with my other kids, and seething at all that I could have done while I was sitting there. Then, to not get the nap, would add to it. I can't imagine what I would then feel like if baby only slept for 15 minutes, as mine often do.
I think a key point is that not all babies nap for 2 hours. At 8 months, none of mine have so far. They usually settle into an after lunch nap at around 1 year, that lasts about an hour. Until then, cat naps rule here. It is okay. Some babies are also grouchy, and act tired when they don't really want to sleep.
I would try the 15 minutes, or whatever you are comfortable doing, and then change gears. You may end up with a cranky baby, who doesn't want to sleep, but are spared the frustration of trying to force it, at least.

This too shall pass.

[wombatclay]

DD1 would sleep anywhere, any time but dd2 would ONLY nap in the ergo. For most of her first year it was ergo, car seat in a moving car, or no nap. Sometimes she'd nurse to sleep in the ergo, sometimes just zonk out but the benefit to me was that it didn't really matter if she was asleep, or awake, or nursing... I could still chase after my toddler and get life done.

For night wakings and massive fussy meltdowns I keep a basket of special treats for myself... mp3 player with special music, magazines, luna bars, etc... that I only use when babe is awake at night or wont nap. It doesn't replace sleep, that's for sure, but if I know I'll get a chocolate kiss and some of my fav tunes it "hurts" a bit less to be dealing with a child who is refusing to sleep.

Good luck!

[Jayray]

My almost 7 mo naps about 2 hours after he wakes up, then about 2 hours after he wakes up from that nap (although I'd like it to be a little later) and about 2-3 hours after that for a short nap. So this usually works out to naps around 8:45, 12:00 and 3:30 with bedtime around 6:30/7:00, waking for the day around 6-7:00.

My friend's 9 mo takes a nap at 9:00 and 1:00 and sleeps 7-7. This seems to be the stereotypical baby schedule--but I guess that's not really what you want!