How do I explain other kids getting spanked to my 3.5 y.o.

[anj_rn]

We were in the waiting room waiting for my DD's therapy appt yesterday, and a mother was getting very angry at her approx. 2 y.o. for climbing around on the furniture, and kept pulling him down and telling him to sit. Then she whacked him on the leg. My DS (3.5 y.o.) saw her, and told her she needed to say she was sorry and sit in time out for hitting.

I pulled him aside, quickly explained to the shocked mother that is the punishment for hitting in our house, and went to the other side of the waiting room. I tried to explain to DS that I can not put other people's mommies in time out, but he kept asking why she hit her son. I tried explaining that some mommies use spankings instead of time out, but in our house we don't have any hitting at all. This morning he woke up and asked my why "mean mommies are allowed to hit."

I do not know what to tell him. On top of that, we are the only non-spankers in DHs family, so I am afraid it will come up as we visit with the ILs over the holidays. How do I explain this, and what do I say if we witness them again.

I should also tell you DS is gifted and very logical, so I have to explain things very concretely. I do not want him telling his aunts that they are mean mommies, but I really think spanking is wrong.

HELP!!!

[Addy's Mom]

Can't you just say there are different ways of correcting bad behavior, and spanking is one that some other families choose, but ours doesn't.

[The4OfUs]

Yeah, I'd just say that some families believe that's a way to correct behavior they don't like, but that you don't believe that. I wouldn't use any loaded or judging language on it for the very reason you described in the office - you don't need your kid telling random strangers in public, or other family members, that they're horrible people. I think the most "judgy" language I would use is maybe "Unfortunately, some families believe that's the way to correct....." but wouldn't go any deeper into it than that really.

I'm very much against spanking and will have a conversation with anyone who is interested in learning alternatives or who promotes it in a discussion, and will speak out against it in discussions, but don't believe that confronting the average spanking parent in public when they've spanked a child (and I mean a typical spanking, not beating or seriously physically harming a child) is a good idea for anyone, let alone a child.

**I realize that many people equate all spanking as abuse, but I do not. I think it's ALWAYS a lousy parenting choice, and *can* be abusive, and can do long term damage to the child and the parent-child relationship, but I don't believe that all spanking is always abusive, as I believe that that diminishes true child abuse where the child is in imminent or chronic, serious, life altering physical or emotional danger. Just wanted to get that out there as a qualifier to my post, so we don't get sidetracked into a discussion about whether spanking is abusive or not.

[Addy's Mom]

I do empathize, OP. I live in an area where almost no one spanks (at least not in public), so it will likely never come up. I think you handled it really well.

As your son gets older, you can explain to him in more detail why you've made the parenting choices you have. But it sounds like you've got a bright little guy and they can be really challenging to parent (in a good way).

[Ruthla]

I would say that hitting is always bad, but that sometimes good people do bad things- and this doesn't make them bad people. Some mommies don't know better ways to raise their children. Other mommies might know better but sometimes get mad and forget to be gentle. None of us are perfect- Auntie can be really fun to play with but still hit Cousin sometimes when Cousin needs a time-out, and that doesnt' make her a "mean mommy"

I would also emphasize that it's rude for a child to tell a grownup that they're doing something wrong, especially about parenting. It's also not always appropriate for one grownup to correct another one. We know that hitting is wrong, but sometimes it's hard to teach this to other grownups, and it's definitely not HIS place to try and correct them.

[sgmom]

Originally Posted by anj_rn

My DS (3.5 y.o.) saw her, and told her she needed to say she was sorry and sit in time out for hitting.

LOL!!!! Good for him. Maybe the mother will think twice the next time a situation like that arises. Bad looks from other parents are bad enough, but when a 3 year old tells you off... LOL! That's just awesome.

I think you handled it just fine. You answered his question without over explaining, and continued to do so the next morning when he was obviously still upset about what he witnessed. As for explaining why other families do something differently than yours, that's never an easy question to answer.

But as for what you can say to your son, I agree with the PPs.

[PreggieUBA2C]

I think you handled it very well (And I love that you told the mother that hitting isn't allowed in your house). I would be careful of changing, imo, the correct description of your son's 'hitting' to 'spanking.' It was hitting and when you give it a special distinction such as by calling it spanking, you condone it in a way or at least make it acceptable in some way, even if you make it clear that you don't personally choose it as a communication tool.

He was correct that it was hitting. I would stick with calling it that and then explain that some people hit their children and that you don't. If he asks why, then you can say you don't really know because you have found so many beneficial ways of communicating that you don't understand why anyone would choose to hit.

This is how we explain it to our boys and when they've said anything about it to others, it has been just matter-of-fact, that there are many ways to communicate without violence/hitting and that we choose those in our home. I don't know or care if others have found that offensive.

Please don't take responsibility for the offense of others about the reality of hitting as an ineffective and damaging strategy for getting one's way with a smaller person. There are already too many people who actually believe that, no?

My dh was in kindergarten and his father received a phone call from the teacher asking him to please instruct dh to call the animals in their classroom pictures what everyone else calls them and not to be so insistent that they be called by their 'actual' names. He'd called an antelope by its name and was reprimanded and told to call it a 'deer' because that's what everyone else thinks it is. His father refused and so did dh. Who benefitted by having reinforced the incorrect name of that animal?

I'd prefer to speak the truth (not deliberately to offend, but because I can't often tolerate euphamistic interpretations of what is plain to everyone if we would set them aside). I wouldn't worry that others might not like it. They can choose to stop hitting and make it a non-issue for them if it's that offensive to them to have it called what it is.

[sapphire_chan]

I think you handled it just fine.

And so did your ds. It's great that he's using his power as a child (the only power they've got is that they're clearly too young to know social standards) to speak for others.

The woman was only shocked because in our culture it's considered odd to speak up against hitting people smaller than us.

[sapphire_chan]

As for your family, how about introducing a rule that if a child needs correction they get taken aside? If you want to give ds a timeout, or an auntie wants to hit her kid, all away from everyone else.

[The4OfUs]

Originally Posted by PreggieUBA2C

Please don't take responsibility for the offense of others about the reality of hitting as an ineffective and damaging strategy for getting one's way with a smaller person. There are already too many people who actually believe that, no?

I just want to be clear that my concern in my post upthread is NOT about avoiding offending the other parent. At all.

I don't think a child telling an stranger adult they should be in time out for hitting, even though I don't agree with hitting kids, is a good idea at all because you never know how the parent will react to your kid or you. If they're already agitated enough to hit their kid in public, and then they're publically embarrased by a child, it has the potential to escalate. And that's just NOT a situation I want to put my own kid in when they're young.

I would NOT want to see a child say something to a random stranger parent and have the parent lash out, albeit likely verbally, at that child. Or even at the parent - I know my son especially, if he said something to someone and then they physically or verbally aggressed towards *me* as a result, he would feel HORRIBLE. And I don't want him to feel that way - so long as he knows our values and we talk privately about why people do things they do and why we don't, I'd rather him not reprimand adults in public, whether or not I agree with what he's saying.

It's just not a situation I want my kids to have to deal with when they're that young.

And re: the language of spanking vs hitting, it's funny you bring it up because in many conversations and online discussions I am sure to use hitting instead of spanking for the exact reasons you mentioned...I just didn't in this one for some reason.

[anj_rn]

Well, I ended up sending him to the inlaws with DH. DD and I are staying home (one of the cousins brought his dogs and DD cannot be around animals with fur because of her trach). We will see what happens. I have asked his family repeatedly not to spank in public, but they think that Dr. James Dobson is right and to have them grow up as stong adults, they need physical discipline.

I will keep you updated. I did have a discussion with DS that trying to put adults in time out was disrespectful, and that if he thought an adults was hurting someone he should tell mommy or daddy,

[PreggieUBA2C]

Originally Posted by The4OfUs

I just want to be clear that my concern in my post upthread is NOT about avoiding offending the other parent. At all.

I don't think a child telling an stranger adult they should be in time out for hitting, even though I don't agree with hitting kids, is a good idea at all because you never know how the parent will react to your kid or you. If they're already agitated enough to hit their kid in public, and then they're publically embarrased by a child, it has the potential to escalate. And that's just NOT a situation I want to put my own kid in when they're young.

I would NOT want to see a child say something to a random stranger parent and have the parent lash out, albeit likely verbally, at that child. Or even at the parent - I know my son especially, if he said something to someone and then they physically or verbally aggressed towards *me* as a result, he would feel HORRIBLE. And I don't want him to feel that way - so long as he knows our values and we talk privately about why people do things they do and why we don't, I'd rather him not reprimand adults in public, whether or not I agree with what he's saying.

It's just not a situation I want my kids to have to deal with when they're that young.

And re: the language of spanking vs hitting, it's funny you bring it up because in many conversations and online discussions I am sure to use hitting instead of spanking for the exact reasons you mentioned...I just didn't in this one for some reason.

Thanks for clarifying. I wasn't addressing your post in particular; I was writing based upon assumptions of common perspectives because the op didn't elaborate on hers, so I thought I'd just try to cover everything I think about it in very short-form. Such is one of the limitations of internet communication, I think.

You do raise an interesting set of points about protecting our dc from the aggression they witness and that potentially threatens them in those instances. I'm interested in discussing that, but I have to give my dh a chance to use the computer because he's early to bed tonight (5:30am start for work tomorrow). I'll have time tomorrow, though I imagine traffic will be slow here.

[The4OfUs]

Well I'm working on and off all day so I'll be here and can chat with you!


Here's the thing: I DO want my kids to stand up for injustice and stand up for people being hurt at school by bullies, etc....juuuuuussst....not at 3-1/2 and almost 6 years old. I just want them to have a *little* bit more maturity and a little more experience handling themselves in stressful/negative situations before they go chamioning causes. I am proud to say that my son has in fact comforted kids who have been hurt, or invited kids being left out to play with him, and I think that's age appropriate and great and makes my heart sing; I just don't want him to take on the pains of the world quite yet, especially if it involves confronting or addressing adults that are in an aggravated state of mind. Knowing his personality and how sensitive he is, it could be a pretty bad scene for him. My daughter is still too young/immature to be thinking about things like that.

I don't want to shield them from everything negative, or never let them stand up for anything, I just think based on their personalities, they're still too young yet. I could imagine an almost 6-yo with a different personality being able to take on something like that and have it not affect them too much, but not my particular 6 yo. I think almost every 3 yo is too young to take on an adult in public, not just because of what I believe about kids, but because of society's attitudes on whether kids should be "allowed" to straight out challenge random strangers in public or not...I know that part isn't fair because kids are people too and should have a voice, but unfortunatley that's the way it is and it's not an aspect that I think needs changed, honestly. I think little ones (in my mind, probably under 5) do need to be protected from those kinds of battles/confrontations while they're still so little. So for now, I'll be their voice. I still have more insight and can judge situations better than they can...so for now I'll be the one to see if a situation looks amenable to any intervention engagement or not, and if not I'll address my own kids and keep them safe; that is always my priority.

[mommy68]

Originally Posted by Addy's Mom

Can't you just say there are different ways of correcting bad behavior, and spanking is one that some other families choose, but ours doesn't.

yep, this is the truth so why not say it.