Is her opinion correct?

[lainey2200]

New at the forum. I am researching elimination communication and am interested in trying to EC my daughter (who is on the way in 2 short months!!). In doing research, I did notice this advice columnist who responded to parents trying to EC http://www.slate.com/id/2238852/

Is this the type of opinion that most of you encounter? This will be our first child, and I'm a little overwhelmed with all the baby rearing theories. Actually, the best way to describe it is "scared out of my mind that I'm going to screw this up." I want to be as natural and environmentally friendly as possible, but I don't want to be a "holier than thou" parent. Any thoughts?

[sgmom]

To quote from that link... "Here's something else that's true: The first time you take your undiapered duo to Whole Foods and they let fly on the organic arugula, the produce manager will communicate about eliminating you as a customer."

BWAHAHAHAHA! I don't know what country she lives in, but I think it's pretty safe to say that peeing on produce is not a part of EC.

This lady seems to have no clue what EC is about. And yes, while it's true that the majority of today's mothers will look at you like you're absolutely crazy when you suggest going diaper free, you might want to remind them that we are the only country in the world who's children remain in diapers until 3 or 4 years old. Many countries don't use diapers at all and while they do have a "squat and go" type of acceptance, most mothers will seek out a bush or perhaps a drain of some sort, if the situation allows for it. But peeing your child in the vegetable isle at your local grocery store, I'm SURE is not one of these places.

Honestly, almost everyone who's questioned (aka "poo-poo'ed") me about "potty training an infant" has shown interest after I give them my reply about why I do it, and how it's NOT potty training.

You really can't screw it up. Once you become aware of your babies body language, and the lines of communication start to open up, EC is really quite easy. And quite frankly, it's none of anyone's business if you want to do it. You can do it full time (100% diaper free, cue the sound at every elimination, offer pottytunities on a very regular basis, etc), or you can go part time, and just offer the potty during times of high probability (ie. after waking, feedings, naps, etc), or you can go by the clock if you're having problems reading their body language.

What it's NOT is all or nothing. Relax, and have fun with it! EC is great.

PS. My daughter is 15 months, ED'd since 4.5 months, and I'm pregnant with baby #2 due in May. I'm also planning to go diaper free from birth. Yeah, it's a little scary, but once you go EC, you never go back.

[sgmom]

PS. Does anyone else find it horribly ironic that her name is "PRUDE"ence?

And somewhat off topic, the fathers asked her for advice on how to politely express this to their guests at the baby shower. Her reply was anything BUT polite, imo.

That said, I think this is one of my favorite EC articles I've read yet! Strictly for humors sake, but still... "infinitesimal number of people"... HAHAHA! Love it.

[pixiepunk]

wow. that was just.... wow.

thankfully, no, most people do not react that violently to the concept of EC. i live in the freakin sticks and everyone i talk to about it thinks it's cool once i explain what it is and how it works. they are all amazed and impressed by my LO, especially now that she is 19 months old and has been in undies for about 4 months now. the only places i've actually encountered rudeness and intolerance were online forums. who knows, maybe people IRL are just too polite to tell me what a wacko they think i am, and they don't have a problem with it on the anonymous net. i don't really care.

in general, though, any natural parenting you try has the potential for people to miscontrue your attempts as being "holier than thou." people do often feel judged when someone makes a different choice than they do. for me, a lot of my parenting choices are on a need-to-know basis. i don't broadcast my parenting style. i just do it. with EC'ing an infant for example, i will often just grab my diaper bag and head for the bathroom. is it any of their business really if i need to change a diaper or potty the baby (or maybe both?). i simply say "excuse me, we'll be right back" and get up.

BTW, welcome to MDC!! the EC forum is full of experienced EC mamas who can offer support and advice, so please feel free to ask questions! you should also check out diaperfreebaby.org and see if there is an EC support group in your area. there's nothing better than seeing it in action. diaperfreebaby is sort of like the La Leche League for EC it's great to have personal support and encouragement.

[sapphire_chan]

Wow, that woman clearly had someone pee in her cornflakes!

More seriously though, I worry that the parents are setting themselves up for disappointment if they plan to never use diapers at all. Hopefully they have hardwood floors and a high tolerance for mess.

[lainey2200]

Thank you for the thoughts! I don't plan at this point to go entirely diaper free, but I wanted to at least start trying recognizing cues, and take it from there. I've read some of the posts to this forum, and you mothers make me feel better about ECing her. Although to be honest, I was just worried about biting off more than I can chew as a first time mommy, and "Prudences" article touched a nerve. I feel like I'm planning all these environmentally friendly child rearing skills, and I am going to end up feeding her smashed up cheetos from a styrofoam plate, and put her in diapers and myself in adult diapers because I'm too scared to go to the bathroom and leave her out of my sight. She is going to have plenty to talk about in therapy, I'll tell you that.

I figure I will start with as much as I can handle, and use cloth diapers as back-ups. Probably more diaper dependent when she is newborn. Sorry for the babbling, if you can tell, I'm freaking out a little about the world of motherhood. I can't imagine why someone would let me take her home without a license or something.

[sapphire_chan]

Have you seen www.tribalbaby.org yet? It is a fantabulous resource on all things parenting, particularly EC.

2 months is tons of time to learn stuff.

I'd also read in the "Life With a Babe" forum. And "Baby-wearing".

[isabchi]

I think She has as much EC knowloge as myself about to drive a rocket
ship...LOL...She's totally clueless!!
I ECed from day 3 my second baby,and I can say EC is a wonderfull tool.
You learn to identify the need to feeding, over stimulation, etc. and the need to eliminate... One less cry! I wish I knew about EC early with my first baby.

[physmom]

Sorry, people that think this way drive me nuts! While we're definitely not a diaper free family (started EC at 9 months), I'm fully supportive of those who are and maybe we'll start earlier next time around. I just hate it when people flame something without understanding it, grrr!

I should say, I did have one friend who said that I was "pushing" DD but beyond that most people have been very interested in what we're doing. I like to share about it so more people can get their info from the source and not some inflammatory blog like that.

[Carlyle]

Originally Posted by lainey2200

Although to be honest, I was just worried about biting off more than I can chew as a first time mommy, and "Prudences" article touched a nerve. I feel like I'm planning all these environmentally friendly child rearing skills, and I am going to end up feeding her smashed up cheetos from a styrofoam plate, and put her in diapers and myself in adult diapers because I'm too scared to go to the bathroom and leave her out of my sight. She is going to have plenty to talk about in therapy, I'll tell you that.

I remember that feeling My best advice is to focus on breastfeeding first. If that comes easily and it isn't making you feel overwhelmed to try the ec thing, do it whenever it feels right. But if you ever start feeling overwhelmed, it's fine to put it off. I've read that in some ec-is-normal countries, parents don't start until their babies are 3 months old or so. That's when we finally had the courage to start and it worked great.

I definitely plan to start from birth next time (assuming that there IS a next time), but I have a better idea about how to be chill about it now (I hope) since I'm not going to be in my "learn how to do it" mindset.

Anyway, just don't feel like you've missed your chance if you end up putting off starting for a while is all I'm trying to say. Breastfeeding is the most important thing, and ec can take back burner. Once you have your rhythms figured out, it's easier to try something new.

ps-about the holier than thou thing, I think you can do what feels right to you, and as long as you don't go around criticizing other people's choices you're doing great! If they choose to be offended that you're trying something different, that's THEIR problem as a holier than thou parent...I think that this author was responding more to the question of "how can we let people know what bad things that they shouldn't buy us" than the idea of ec.

[Carlyle]

ps--this discussion board (even beyond the ec forum) is a great place to hang out for people who want to try "natural-minded" stuff (breastfeeding, bedsharing, making your child's foods, etc). It can help you feel not so alone!

[Ruthla]

Originally Posted by lainey2200

I feel like I'm planning all these environmentally friendly child rearing skills, and I am going to end up feeding her smashed up cheetos from a styrofoam plate, and put her in diapers and myself in adult diapers because I'm too scared to go to the bathroom and leave her out of my sight. She is going to have plenty to talk about in therapy, I'll tell you that.

You're NOT going to wear disposable adult diapers so you don't have to leave her out of your sight when you go potty. You're going to use the toilet while nursing her in the sling.

Seriously, there are "holier than thou" parents of all flavors. People can get defensive about ANY parenting technique that they're doing differently than you- this isn't solely about AP parents. I've seen "mainstream" parents look down at one another for their stroller choices, or what brand of baby clothes they buy. I've seen AP parents compete for "longest time before introducing solids" just as "mainstream" parents compete for starting solids the youngest.

Just do what's right for YOUR family and try not to get caught up in the comparisons.

[accountclosed3]

ok, here's the best parenting advice that i ever got: choose what you are going to do, and then do it without apology.

that doesn't mean you have to broadcast it or even talk about it. you just do what you do and you don't worry about if others are offended or upset or whatever. like pixie, we often take a diaper bag with us into the rest room when we potty our son. sometimes, he needs a change and usually he doesn't, but no one really knows what we are doing in there anyway.

and when they do know it, because they happen to see you do it. occasionally, another mother-and-child will be in the rest room and she'll ask me about it. i call it elimination communication and give the basics. most are curious. that's it. no comparisons, no judgments.

as for being a new mom and feeling like you are taking on too much, the reality is that you will discover as you go along what makes your life easier and happier and, you'll do that.

the greatest pressure you will get will be from family and close friends. it is helpful early on to remind them that you are the parent. if they criticise, tell them that it is working well for you. no apologies, no explainations (particularly if you've already given those in the past). just "this is what we're doing, we're the parents, and we're happy with it."they will eventually shut up.

every new parent has hopes and dreams for how they will parent--and it's good to see what you want to try and begin to hang with people who do similar things if you can (these boards are great, ,and if you can find folks in real life, that will be great too), because then you can learn some tips and what not.

but if something doesn't work out for you, or it's different than you think, then that's ok. i expected to EC very differently than we are (no diapers ever), but i'm no less happy with how we do it (diaper free days, diaper days which we are now moving into trainer days). same with breastfeeding and baby wearing and a whole lot of other things in my life. the reality is different than the imagined preparations, but it's good all the same.

the main thing is that your life is good and you are all happy. that's it. that's the goal. if EC does that, then great. if it makes your life miserable, then don't do it. (a friend of mine tried, found it frustrating, went to cloth diapers. no big deal.)

no worries. you are a thoughtful and compassionate person, so you'll be a thoughtful and compassionate mama.

[orangefoot]

Who is that lady? She knows nothing!

Don't worry about taking on too much. By the time a week has gone by with a little one you have learned many more skills than you ever knew you had Your skills grow with the challenges kwim?

There are so many ways to EC that even just being conscious of not leaving your babe wet or dirty is a good thing to do.

Tribal Baby is a good place to start then come back here as often as you need

[lisavark]

Originally Posted by lainey2200

I feel like I'm planning all these environmentally friendly child rearing skills, and I am going to end up feeding her smashed up cheetos from a styrofoam plate, and put her in diapers and myself in adult diapers because I'm too scared to go to the bathroom and leave her out of my sight. She is going to have plenty to talk about in therapy, I'll tell you that.

!!!

Ok, first of all, lainey, I LOVE you. Can you please come back and post often?

Secondly, I'm going to give you a piece of advice on parenting. I recommend that you take this piece of advice and then never listen to anyone else's advice ever again. My advice is this: BELIEVE YOUR INSTINCTS. You KNOW what you're doing. You are the mother and you KNOW. Really. You will. You don't need anybody to tell you how to parent. You know how.

Third, this is my favorite article on EC. I recommend it to everyone who feels stressed about doing EC "perfectly." There is no such thing as perfect EC--even in countries where it's normal. Here's the article: http://www.brainchildmag.com/essays/...008_caliri.asp

Finally, I have found that when my parenting practices fall outside of the mainstream, people are less shocked if I act like it's normal. Or I give some silly reason for it that's personal to me, so they won't feel like I'm criticizing THEIR choices. So when people are shocked that I'm "still" nursing my almost-two-year-old, I'll say earnestly, "Well, the most recent WHO recommendation is to nurse at least until age two!" That works well with older folks who figure it's just some new-fangled notion. But if I'm talking to other parents with kids of similar ages, I say, "Well, she's a little bit allergic to dairy, so I'm keeping her on human milk instead." Then they figure, well, my kid isn't allergic to dairy, so lisavark's child is just a special case. With EC, I say things like, "She REALLY hates being dirty at all--she freaks out over a speck of dirt on her fingernails--so it just made sense for us." Or, "Well, I'm a crazy environmentalist and I used cloth diapers, and it was all downhill from there." When I imply that I'm the weird one, then there's no question about me looking down on them. So then they can look at the practice on its own merit, without any implication of feeling guilty, and they're usually pretty interested.

As a matter of fact, I frequently have parents of older toddlers asking me to teach them about potty training. Recently some of my friends in playgroup, whose kids are all about the same age of mine, have started to ask my advice as well. The proof is in the pudding, and now that DD has been wearing underwear in public for almost six months, even the naysayers have to admit that there's something to it.

Of course, I don't really know what to say to those people...start a year ago?

[pixiepunk]

Originally Posted by lisavark

!!!

Ok, first of all, lainey, I LOVE you. Can you please come back and post often?

Secondly, I'm going to give you a piece of advice on parenting. I recommend that you take this piece of advice and then never listen to anyone else's advice ever again. My advice is this: BELIEVE YOUR INSTINCTS. You KNOW what you're doing. You are the mother and you KNOW. Really. You will. You don't need anybody to tell you how to parent. You know how.

Third, this is my favorite article on EC. I recommend it to everyone who feels stressed about doing EC "perfectly." There is no such thing as perfect EC--even in countries where it's normal. Here's the article: http://www.brainchildmag.com/essays/...008_caliri.asp

Finally, I have found that when my parenting practices fall outside of the mainstream, people are less shocked if I act like it's normal. Or I give some silly reason for it that's personal to me, so they won't feel like I'm criticizing THEIR choices. So when people are shocked that I'm "still" nursing my almost-two-year-old, I'll say earnestly, "Well, the most recent WHO recommendation is to nurse at least until age two!" That works well with older folks who figure it's just some new-fangled notion. But if I'm talking to other parents with kids of similar ages, I say, "Well, she's a little bit allergic to dairy, so I'm keeping her on human milk instead." Then they figure, well, my kid isn't allergic to dairy, so lisavark's child is just a special case. With EC, I say things like, "She REALLY hates being dirty at all--she freaks out over a speck of dirt on her fingernails--so it just made sense for us." Or, "Well, I'm a crazy environmentalist and I used cloth diapers, and it was all downhill from there." When I imply that I'm the weird one, then there's no question about me looking down on them. So then they can look at the practice on its own merit, without any implication of feeling guilty, and they're usually pretty interested.

As a matter of fact, I frequently have parents of older toddlers asking me to teach them about potty training. Recently some of my friends in playgroup, whose kids are all about the same age of mine, have started to ask my advice as well. The proof is in the pudding, and now that DD has been wearing underwear in public for almost six months, even the naysayers have to admit that there's something to it.

Of course, I don't really know what to say to those people...start a year ago?

YES YES YES and YES!!! don't question yourself. trust your gut.

and - start a year ago. isn't it so odd how you become the local potty training expert? i just want to say, well, um, i did EC to *avoid* the situation you're describing, i have no idea how to handle that! but usually i just say my little EC mantra "just listen to what your child is trying to tell you. Keep the lines of communication open, and respect what s/he's telling you, even if it's not what you want to hear."

[accountclosed3]

my advice is to just let it be what it is when people ask for it about PTing. i explain that if they take the pressure off of "getting it done" then it will be easier for everyone. assume that there will be a LOT of misses, and keep everthing in the positive for the kid. afterall, you're making a new neurological pathway. that takes time and practice.

so, i explain, it could take ayear for your kid to be fully "trained."

i figure i tell them as if i would tell someone how to EC, yk? just relax.

and true--trut your instincts. once you're in it, you'll know what works for you and what doesn't and it won't matter at all.

one of our best friend's (another family) is *very* different from us. their daughter is 'sposie diapered, formula fed, regular weaning schedule, full vax, has tons of plastic and otherwise toys (a crazy amount of toys), and blah blah blah.

and yet, we're good friends because we know that these things aren't a better than thou, but rather a 'better for us' situation. i'm excited to BF and EC and cosleep and be tv lite and toy lite and all of that. they aren't. no big deal. we all do what makes our lives easier.

so, you know, it will be ok. you'll figure out what makes parenting fun and easy for you. because guess what? that's the point. the point is to enjoy parenting and enjoy your kid. if you aren't enjoying it, then it's just too much work and not worth it, yk?

you'll be fine.

[nudhistbudhist]

I get all kinds of comments, good and bad, but mostly good. While DS was an infant, I pretty much carried him naked against my mostly bare skin. I usually carried him in the Moby when he was tiny, because I could go topless underneath and no one could tell. Otherwise, I wore a tank and had him in a sling naked. People wouldnt notice unless they actually stopped to talk to me and see the baby, then they would ask questions. DS was a FABULOUS ECer right from the start... we hardly had any accidents until he was around 1 year, then everything changed... so people were totally amazed by him... I did get a few strange comments and dirty looks, but I got those too from carrying baby in a SLING. The best part of EC, in my opinion, is the STORIES

I would say the worst EC moment I had (the only time he peed on me in public) was when he was two months old. We were sitting in a booth at a restaurant, and discussing EC with the very interested waitress... she was asking how we ask him to go when hes on the potty... My husband says "We just say PSSS PSSS PSSS and he goes," so OF COURSE ds pees on me.... The waitress was laughing so hard and was totally amazed that it worked... after that we were more careful about talking about cueing in public... But that wasnt so bad, was it? Its just pee...

[accountclosed3]

silly man! it was his fault.

also, from a language perspective, i always see it as DS *is* an excellent ECer, and i'm not. if there is a miss, it is not becaue *he's* not getting it, it's because *i'm* not getting it.

DS definitely signals, will hold until we get to the potty (and has since he was about a month or so old), and all of that. poor baby even held a poop and pee back for the last 20 mintues of our drive home in the car!

but there are times when we miss, or signal at the wrong spot (like in the booth at the restaurant), and so on. it happens.

if you just keep it in perspective--that it's no big deal--then it really just becomes a fun thing.

nonattachment, i guess.

[dogretro]

I agree w/ what everyone before me here has said. I would also like to reinforce that ECing gets easier/more acceptable as your child gets older. DD is 20 months now & no one bats an eye when I take her into the stall w/ me and obviously talk to her about going pee pee on the potty. We have a folding potty seat and waterproof trainers. Even when she has a leak, hello, what baby OR toddler never has a leak or accident?? Over the passage of time, ECing has become such a non-issue, except when I get to privately gloat that my kid poops on the potty when other mothers complain that their older kids refuse. I never had to explain to her what the toilet was for, she always knew. She and her friend who have both been ec'd since infancy don't even change the diapers on their baby dolls ~ they potty them!