I just can't do this anymore- UPDATE!! #44 - Page 2

[chiara]

[sehbub]

Any updates, mama? I've been wondering how y'all were doing.

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by MissLotus

I always thought that sleep deprivation was by far the #1 most difficult thing about becoming a parent. Pregnancy was okay, labor I did not enjoy but survived... but the sleep part, man... that was tough.

Me, too. It's also something that isn't talked about seriously. It's a joke in many parenting groups, but I think many parents are afraid to talk about how bad it truly is.

DS has always been a terrible sleeper. Yes, it is better now, but he's almost 5. It's been better maybe a year. We cut out dairy for 18 months because of other issues, but it didn't help the sleep here.

My best pieces of advice from having been there -
1. Find somewhere else for your husband to sleep. Seriously - whether it's a spare bedroom, you and your DS sleeping on a futon, whatever it is. If he's grouchy and has to get up for work and doesn't want nighttime parenting duty, then get him somewhere else. Eliminating the arguing from you both being exhausted will help.

2. Get sleep. For us, this meant that 1 week night I slept from when DH got home until he went to bed. I also slept a "shift" on Sundays. Your sleep makes all the difference in dealing with it.

3. Take your DS on a car ride if you can. Even if he doesn't sleep once you're home, he needs some way to get some sleep in. DS would get so worked up that he couldn't sleep though he desperately needed it. Helping him find ways to get sleep will help him start to settle down.

4. Elevation often works. I slept propped up for many months with DS lying on my chest & stomach. It helped tremendously.

[penstamon]

We reached a new low on xmas night and it was a night I hope will become fuzzy in my memory before too long. DH ended up having to sleep in another room so I stayed up with DS all night. Naps have been OK the past two days but nighttime is still awful. I put him to bed around 1.5 hrs ago and he has been up twice. He is sleeping elevated on his tummy. I didn't swaddle because I haven't found anything large enough yet but I will try to look again tomorrow. It has been hard to do much, including shopping, because I feel awful.

I am so frustrated that its the holidays and no dr's or practitioners are open. My pedi shrugged me off and couldn't see me the other day- "some babies are just like that". I have two CSTs to contact tomorrow so I am hopeful about that. I didn't mention on my earlier post that DS has this weird transient torticollis- it comes and goes. He is quite strong and on target with milestones but I can't help feeling that this persistent problem is related. So yes, therapy may be helpful.

Sleep deprivation hurts your body, mind, marriage, well-being, sense of stability but I can still look at DS and love him with every fiber of my being. A day at a time is excellent advice Beauchamp.

[gbutterflykissesm]

Sleep deprivation really is the worst. I can handle everything, but sleep deprivation really made me feel like I was going crazy. I completely understand how you feel. from maybe 2-5 months, DS woke every 15-30 minutes too. I work full time and I was actually hallucinating at work from lack of sleep. You really have gotten some great advice. I know that too much advice can be overwhelming, so you have to decide WHAT you choose to change... Don't try to do it all at once, and you don't have to do it all. That said, this is what helped me. #3 is the one I would stress the most as something you can start doing right away that will really make a difference in helping you get through this:

1). I started giving DS probiotics. I saw a change within a week... he would wake up every 1-2 hours instead of every 15-30 minutes.

2). When DS did wake up in the night I would give him coccyntal (homeopathic remedy for stomach crampiness) because it always seemed like he had gas and it really bothered him and kept him awake.

3). If DS went to bed at 7PM, I would go to bed at 7. Even though I was getting interrupted sleep, at least I was getting to bed earlier. If your DH is up later, maybe he can do a shift from when you go to bed early until he goes to sleep, so maybe you could get a 3-4 hour block of sleep before he goes to bed.

4). When I was sensing that DH was really irritable about the lack of sleep, I would bring DS into the guest room and sleep with him there. Once DH was rested again after having several hours of sleep, he was in a much better mood and much more willing to help the next night.

5). A PP mentioned about sensory overload making it hard for a baby to get and stay asleep. My DS is like this. If I so much as breathe too loud, he wakes up if he is next to me. But at the same time, sometimes if he is in his crib towards the early morning when he is less tired and wakes more frequently anyway, he wakes often and cries, so I bring him into bed with me where he can sleep and nurse. This extends his night of sleep for maybe another hour, but it IS another hour of sleep. For both of us. In sum, experiment with where your baby sleeps. We tried: in bed with us, in the guest bed with just me, in the pack and play in the living room right outside the bedroom door, in his crib in his room, in the arm's reach cocoon next to our bed, in the arm's reach cocoon in his room... At different stages, he liked sleeping in a different place. Another thing I noticed was that if he wasn't so close to me, it would take me a minute to go to him if he made noise in the night. And I realized that more than 1/2 the time, he was just making noise in his sleep. He groans a lot and is very vocal. And I was rushing in and stimulating him every time he groaned, which would wake him up fully. Now he is 7 months old, and I let him groan. If he cries, I go in.. But I watch him in a video monitor (or if he is next to me) if he is just groaning and moaning with his eyes closed and changing sleeping positions, I let him be.

6). Try changing bed time. What happens if you put baby down an hour earlier? An hour later?

My baby still doesn't nap well (needs movement so he sleeps in a carrier or swaddled in the cocoon). But his night sleep is much more routine. And going to bed super early for me was the only way I could deal with the sleep deprivation... think about it... if you can get a chunk of sleep out of the way before midnight, waking up at midnight is not AS bad. Still bad, but you can deal. Good luck... hang in there.

[maddycakes]

maybe these have already been mentioned, but what worked for me when we were going through this was

1) eliminating ALL sources of caffeine...even chocolate. Not even one bite/sip/whatever. Ditto for tomatoes. Took about a week before we saw the switch in her sleeping habits. Anytime I slipped, I paid for it!

2) Use a noise machine if you don't already have one (or an am/fm radio turned in between channels).

3) Try different swaddles. My LO did NOT like her hands swaddled (my nephew does) but liked the rest of her body swaddled.

4) Make sure the room is pitch dark...use blackout shades. Often you don't realize how much light is coming in at night. But it really can confuse the body (especially little ones) as they develop their circadian rhythms. If you absolutely need some minimal light--put a night light in a nearby room with the door closed halfway. This also made a huge difference for my DD, even now.

Good luck...and hang in there. Someday YOU will be the one writing advice, trust me.

[bellydance2290]

I just wanted to bring up the food allergies again - my dd has multiple food allergies and her biggest symptom is sleep issues! She will get a little bit of eczema but overall, we know when she has eaten something bad when she isn't sleeping. So, it might be worth trying an elimination diet. I've been on a restricted diet for 18 mths now and it isn't the end of the world. You get used to it. Just keep a food journal for a few weeks and see if you notice anything change. It might be worth it, especially if that is the cause. And the allergies (or intolerances) might be causing silent reflux like others mentioned. A big one for my dd is tomatoes - they make her nuts. Same with corn.

[penstamon]

from bad to worse

The past two nights we have not really slept at all. I think DS may have gone two 45 min. stretches last night but he was basically awake and fussy/crying from 11:45-5:30. He will only settle if he is upright so my back is killing me! He seems fussiest after eating, especially if he is flat so we nursed sitting up. He burps and farts more, has gurgles in his belly a lot- a few times last night I would hear a loud gurgle and he would wake screaming a minute later. We tried gripe water, simethicone, and colic tablets last night to no avail. His poop is normal but this morning he has a slight red rash around the anus (never had that before). I think silent reflux is definitely possible, as is a food intolerance and I just feel so overwhelmed. DH broke his toe (he thinks) by accident last night by kicking the bed frame when he was getting up with DS to calm him.

We can't get in for CST or the chiropractor until next week and the stupid ped office is still blowing me off. I'm literally sitting by the phone all morning hoping that someone will see my poor babe and help! DS got a decent nap in yesterday in the stroller (only our 2nd time using one), but I had to push him around for 1.5 hrs in the cold. I need the exercise and fresh air but I am so dang tired and would like to nap too.

My pp AF returned the other day- I don't know if that could contribute to this? I think he may still have a spot of thrush in his mouth too. We usually treat with GSE and acidophilus, but I am getting wary of giving him anything at all.

I just don't know where to start with my diet. I did stop dairy a few days ago and then ate some by accident in a soup. Do I just stop eating everything other than lettuce and rice (yes I'm exaggerating)? Do I stop taking supplements? Stop moisturizing? Brushing my teeth? Stop treating thrush? Stop gripe water and homeopathics? My diet has not changed since his birth, neither have my supplements or beauty products. Whether coincidentally or not, his sleep has degenerated ever since the first thrush episode 3 months ago- we treated then with nystatin (didn't work), GSE, acidophilus, lotrimin (for me).

I'm sorry this is so discombobulated but I am racking my brain as to causes. I need a little magic.

[LadyCatherine185]

Originally Posted by penstamon

The past two nights we have not really slept at all. I think DS may have gone two 45 min. stretches last night but he was basically awake and fussy/crying from 11:45-5:30. He will only settle if he is upright so my back is killing me! He seems fussiest after eating, especially if he is flat so we nursed sitting up. He burps and farts more, has gurgles in his belly a lot- a few times last night I would hear a loud gurgle and he would wake screaming a minute later. We tried gripe water, simethicone, and colic tablets last night to no avail. His poop is normal but this morning he has a slight red rash around the anus (never had that before). I think silent reflux is definitely possible, as is a food intolerance and I just feel so overwhelmed. DH broke his toe (he thinks) by accident last night by kicking the bed frame when he was getting up with DS to calm him.

We can't get in for CST or the chiropractor until next week and the stupid ped office is still blowing me off. I'm literally sitting by the phone all morning hoping that someone will see my poor babe and help! DS got a decent nap in yesterday in the stroller (only our 2nd time using one), but I had to push him around for 1.5 hrs in the cold. I need the exercise and fresh air but I am so dang tired and would like to nap too.

My pp AF returned the other day- I don't know if that could contribute to this? I think he may still have a spot of thrush in his mouth too. We usually treat with GSE and acidophilus, but I am getting wary of giving him anything at all.

I just don't know where to start with my diet. I did stop dairy a few days ago and then ate some by accident in a soup. Do I just stop eating everything other than lettuce and rice (yes I'm exaggerating)? Do I stop taking supplements? Stop moisturizing? Brushing my teeth? Stop treating thrush? Stop gripe water and homeopathics? My diet has not changed since his birth, neither have my supplements or beauty products. Whether coincidentally or not, his sleep has degenerated ever since the first thrush episode 3 months ago- we treated then with nystatin (didn't work), GSE, acidophilus, lotrimin (for me).

I'm sorry this is so discombobulated but I am racking my brain as to causes. I need a little magic.

The bolded sounds exactly like reflux/allergies. Dr. Sears has an elimination diet, you can google it. Or, you can start with one food (dairy) and if that doesn't help try another (soy next).. you can google the top 8 allergens and work from there.

The thing with allergies, is that the more you eat the allergenic foods, the worse the allergy will get in your DS. It builds up, so that could be why he has progressively gotten worse and worse. Also, with the elimination diet, you have to be REALLY careful, and read labels for hidden forms of dairy/soy/whatever. Dairy can take 2-3 weeks to get out of your system, and any slip-up can be a set back.

Mama. I know how hard this is. We went through it all with my DS. I was a mess. But I got through it, and even though we're still sleep deprived, it isn't as bad as it was, and I feel like I can cope now. It will get better.

[gbutterflykissesm]

Wow. Been there been there been there. I am so sorry!! It will end, I promise. My DS had a lot of the same stomach issues as yours. I did try an elimination diet, but nothing changed. I think he just had to grow out of it.

It may be worth trying. Then you will know. But you have to be super diligent for 3 weeks so that if it is a food intolerance his gut has time to heal. I basically would make big pots of brown rice and grill a bunch of veggies and put it all together with some fresh herbs (think cilantro, basil). I eliminated soy, dairy, nuts, and wheat. I really only ate fresh foods. It did make me a huge monster. I was so cranky from lack of sleep and not being able to eat what I wanted. But it was only 3 weeks, and I just kept telling myself. If I cheated I'd be back to square one and I'd never know if food was the culprit.

And after those 3 weeks, I now know that it's not the culprit, so it was worth it in the long run.

Mama, get some sleep when you can. Is there ever a stretch where your DS will sleep even 2 hours? In the early evening? Can you put him in a baby carrier and recline on a sofa, recliner or chair to nap yourself? This is what I did several times, and it was a huge help. You need to start with getting some sleep yourself. REally, people can do crazy things when sleep deprived; you can feel truly crazy and out of control. Can DH help by taking DS for a walk while you nap? Can you hire a babysitter for a few hours while you nap? Even one 2 hour nap a day will help. Please try to get some support IRL, even if it's just for a few days. A few hours of sleep can make a world of difference.

[moongloe]

first i want to say how sorry i am that you're so miserable.

food allergies. i know a lot of mamas have already suggested it, but i have to put in my 2cents.

we had the same issues with our now 5mo that you described. i already suspected a food allergy, but took him to his ped anyway. she agreed the problem was with what i was eating, and told me to do a full out elimination diet.

i should say here, that things had gotten so bad by this time, that there was mucus and a bit of blood in his diaper. before then it was just the sleep/gas/crying.

i eliminated corn, wheat, soy, dairy, and eggs for 3 weeks, then began testing the eliminated foods. it took me months to do, because it turned out he was sensitive to all legumes, and all nightshades (but neither eggs nor dairy). every time we suspected something new, i had to retest other things. i am not happy at so many things i can no longer eat (especially as i'm a vegetarian), but....

my lo no longer has any of the issues! as i eliminated problem foods things got slowly better. then when i cut out nightshades - boom! it all stopped, and he is now a normal 5mo. rarely spits, no more gas, poops are normal, rashes and congestions long gone, he sleeps 2-3 hours at a stretch, and no more crying.

one of the symptoms of food allergies is sleep problems; both poor sleeping at night, and cat-napping in the day. there are many other symptoms: spitting up, rashes, diarrhea, mucus stools, colic, fussiness, irritability, congestion, eczema. but your lo could have only one or two and still have food issues.

my advice is to do without dairy, eggs, corn, soy, and wheat for 3 weeks. it's not fun, but if there is a chance this could be your lo's problem, it's so worth trying. my ped suggested doing a very mild diet during this time as well: ie white rice instead of brown, easy on garlic, onions, chocolate, no caffeine. i can't recall why the mild foods, but perhaps someone else here can.

my lo slept better on our chests. it could've been the pressure on his belly, our heartbeats, being on a slight incline - don't know. have you tried this? he still sleeps this way on dh half the night, and on me for naps. the rest of the night he sleeps next to me. he still needs to pop off and on the breast constantly, but he does it from a deep sleep.

oh, and it could be food sensitivities, not allergies and cause the same problems. either way the treatment is the same.

hang in there. we are all here for you.

[sunfish21]

Oh, I am so sorry. I am about a month into actually getting sleep (after 20 months) and remember the drugged-haze feeling and the crying well. It is awful and it will not last forever--just feels like it). Make sure DH helps and you get some sleep (I had to take tylenol PM and wear ear plugs to fall asleep I was so worried how it would go, but he promised to wake me if they needed me).

I was told to cut out foods, too...dairy was the first, but they asked about sugar, too. I think regularly seeing a chiropractor is well worth every out of pocket dime I have spent on it. We experiemented; co-sleeping, own crib, etc...for a few months she slept a little better in her own crib in her own room. Then she started sleeping better with me. It will change, some babies take longer. But it does sound like something else might be going on--I would start with dairy and chiro.

[TzippityDoulah]

all 3 of my babies have been that way. my yongest is 8 months and he's still up every 1-2 hrs all night lng. (sometimes once in a while we get 4 hrs! it's a miracle!) and he's rarely much of a napper.

I would suggest looking into allergies (either his food or thorugh your breastmilk) and reflux

but at anyrate please know there are those of out here who totally understand. it is so hard and then to be told "it's just a phase/teething..." ugh! it's so annoying and disheartening!

a baby waking every 25 mins or even every hr ISN'T normal. especually if he wont go back to bed. that doesn't mean something horrible is wrong - could be simple to fix. but you shoudn't feel like you don't have right to be worried and exhausted.

[newmommy7-08]

Mama I just saw this post. When DS was younger this was him, didn't sleep, seemed in pain after eating. With him it was reflux, it took 1 week on zantac to make him stop being in pain and allow him to sleep. If you still haven't gotten anywhere w/ the peds office, please consider another doctor. If the office isn't going to take your concerns seriously then is it really worth relying on them?

Best of luck to you and I hope you're getting some sleep!

[hollytheteacher]

Sounds like maybe a food allergy to something you are eating in your diet (since he is ebf). My ds was severely allergic to cow's milk to the point that If i ate something with a TRACE amount of milk in it he would have blood in his poop. Once I cut it out of my diet his sleep improved immensely, he wasn't as irritable and he relaxed a lot more. It was really hard but obviously worth it.

Have you tried an elimination diet (also I haven't read the other posts yet so sorry if this is repetitive.

Also do you have anyone else that can help? A mother, sister etc that could come spend the night at your house to give you one good night of sleep. They could still bring your LO to you when you need to nurse, but other than that the could try bouncing, swinging, etc. while you get some rest?? Sounds like you are almost at emergency point of needing some sleep!!

[penstamon]

Update

You all are so wonderful for your understanding replies I have cut out dairy/soy now for almost 3 weeks and there has been some change, but who knows why yet. We started chiro visits last week and we seem to see an improvement that night, but then back to the awful patterns after that. The zantac and probiotics have been helping the silent reflux symptoms so many of his night wakings do not seem so painful and traumatic, though they are still frequent. Overall we have seen some improvement with the duration of sleep- maybe getting 1.5 hours a little more consistently until 3-4am when the every 45 min. comes back until we get up. We start CST in a week and a half and I am so looking forward to it! What has really helped is having DH and I switch off to sleep in another room throughout the night just so we have a break and a chance at a few hours of sleep at a time. That in itself makes even the worst nights bearable.

I know some of you warned against it, but we started DS on solids last week- he really really wanted them and eats like a champ (pears, brown rice, now avocados and next week yams). We have not seen any tummy/reflux/poop problems since we started so I think it was the right thing to do. We will try a trial without zantac in two weeks and I am crossing my fingers.

Surprisingly we had a decent night last night. We went to a party against my better judgment and DS wouldn't nap there so we left early but still 2 hours after his bedtime. He seemed fine- happy, engaged, comfortable even though I was so nervous that he was overtired and would be up all night. He slept a 4 hour stretch!!!!!!!! Unfortunately we were only in bed for 2.5 hours of it, but it felt like bliss. He then woke every 2 hours after that until his usual wake up time. I have no idea what to make of it since we have made so many changes, but man I am thankful for it.

All your suggestions have helped so much and your support even more so. We have no family here and very few friends with kids so no one really understands our sleep deprivation (if I have to hear about people who think their kid was a bad sleeper because they woke 1-2 times a night one more time I will scream) or how difficult it is for your sanity, health, and relationships. Its so helpful to have somewhere to vent and also to know that you all lived through the same thing and are still standing

[Dera]

I just read through this for the first time and I was just happy to read the last post so I thought I would comment. I wonder if the later bed time would help? With my oldest, I was always trying to get him to sleep, convinced that he was tired or over tired but once I stopped trying, it got a lot better. I had to completely ditch a routine with him. His bed time changes all the time, even now at 3. And when I thought about it, I realized that mine does too. Some nights I need to be asleep before 8. Other nights, not until 11. If he didn't fall asleep nursing, I just put him down and let him play more. Often, that did the trick. He just wasn't ready to go to bed. Or sometimes, when I thought he was going to bed at 6 or something, it was really just a last late nap and he went to bed at like 9, for example. If I tried to push keeping him asleep, he would wake up all night long, from what must have been too much sleep I suppose.

Or maybe the food sensitivities are working themselves out after 3 weeks of elimination? That's great about the CST, I wish I could try that.

The best thing that I did, which I was reminded of from your post, was to get out every day. He loved it, we got a lot of sunlight and interaction, it made us both happier. Maybe he loves the stimulation and being around people and it just tuckered him out? Do you get out a lot? My son still loves getting out. Home just bores him to tears.

It's great to hear of success, no matter how small. Good luck!

[bobandjess99]

I'm just now seeing your post. I am glad you're finlly getting a tiny bit of sleep. I had 2 non-slepers. I'm glad to say it is finally a vague hazy mempry, lol, but i rememebr the awfulness.
What you said aboutteh party..I found my kids NEEDED to have NEW, different stimulation in order to sleep at all. So, every day, we woulod go out..to the store, just to walk around, I'd let them play with the toys, etc. When it was nice, out for walks, to the park, etc. We'd go to the library, bookstore, mall, even just out to eat or slomething.....it made a big difference.
Thw other issue for us, was not trying ot "get" them to sleep at any certain time..just waiting until they were ready to sleep and tired....
Ds had the gurgley tummy..we know now he is allergic to cow milk, nd some otehr sthings we still havent'f figured out. But the gurgley nights are the worst, definitely.
I know some are going to think this is wrong, but he slept better with a dose of advil in him..even if he didn't have anythign wrong making me think he was in pain, the act of just processingthe medicine, i guess, made him sleep. As did a tummy full of solids. I know, it's supposed to be a myth, but whatever. Worked for my kids, and since they were getting healthy food and not just rice paste, I think it was fine. Really, at tyhat point, ANYthing to get some sleep.

[Chloe'sMama]

Glad you got so many great suggestions and things seem to be getting a bit better.

Wanted to add that gluten was our culprit. We tried so many different eliminations and saw a drastic change within a few days of taking it out of my diet.

Good luck!

[Beauchamp]

Originally Posted by penstamon

I just feel so hopeless. Up until now I kept deluding myself thinking that each night was *the* night and I would forget how bad it was. Now I just feel depressed, like it will never get better and everything will keep falling apart around me.

Subscribing. I am up right now crying. I could have written your original post almost word for word, and so didn't want to start a new thread.

DD is bouncing in the Ergo, and I am crying. DH is sleeping because he has work in the morning. She just won't sleep. I am losing it, too.