Hatred of photo taking - Page 3

[Tjej]

Originally Posted by Belia

My opinion may be very unpopular around here, but I think your daughter is being rude.

She is 14 years old- old enough to understand that there are some things that she should do in spite of the fact that she doesn't want to.

Eat your vegetables, go to the dentist- we do these things to stay healthy.

Hold open a door for other people, say please and thank you, pose for pictures when it means a lot to your mom- we do these things to be kind and polite and generous.

I don't think its unreasonable to ask or require her to pose for a limited number of pictures 2-3 times a year (like a PP said- maybe Christmas, birthday, back to school). There's a safety issue too. If she refuses, then I would refuse to do something "optional" for her that she expects / enjoys.

The only mystery part of this question is the fact that you think she may be on the autism spectrum. I'm not sure if that fact should affect your expectations of her.

I agree with the above.

A PP's suggestion of giving her a way to "hide" in the pictures struck me as a fun and possible way to get her in (I had actually pictured your DD holding up a "censored" sign over her face or a black dot or something, but a book would be fun too).

I do generally think she should just suck it up though (unless it is really not medically/mentally possible for her). But if she won't/can't come around if you discuss your wants with her, then a fun way to include her in the picture without her face would work. Maybe get her to peek through her hand? Or do a "cousin IT" kind of thing with her hair.

Tjej

[LionTigerBear]

Originally Posted by Belia

My opinion may be very unpopular around here, but I think your daughter is being rude.

She is 14 years old- old enough to understand that there are some things that she should do in spite of the fact that she doesn't want to.

Eat your vegetables, go to the dentist- we do these things to stay healthy.

Hold open a door for other people, say please and thank you, pose for pictures when it means a lot to your mom- we do these things to be kind and polite and generous.

I don't think its unreasonable to ask or require her to pose for a limited number of pictures 2-3 times a year (like a PP said- maybe Christmas, birthday, back to school).

I agree!!!

[Tigerchild]

A violation is a violation.

It might mean a lot for relatives who are visiting and who don't see kids very often to get a hug too, it's a way to be kind and polite even if you're not so inclined.

Yet I am sure people wouldn't suggest doing the old school forcing children to hug people they didn't want to.

Other people don't have the right to your body. They don't have a right to the image of your body either.

If something makes someone feel violated, then you should not do it. No matter how "silly" you might think it is.

[lach]

Originally Posted by Belia

My opinion may be very unpopular around here, but I think your daughter is being rude.

She is 14 years old- old enough to understand that there are some things that she should do in spite of the fact that she doesn't want to.

Eat your vegetables, go to the dentist- we do these things to stay healthy.

Hold open a door for other people, say please and thank you, pose for pictures when it means a lot to your mom- we do these things to be kind and polite and generous.

I don't think its unreasonable to ask or require her to pose for a limited number of pictures 2-3 times a year (like a PP said- maybe Christmas, birthday, back to school). There's a safety issue too. If she refuses, then I would refuse to do something "optional" for her that she expects / enjoys.

The only mystery part of this question is the fact that you think she may be on the autism spectrum. I'm not sure if that fact should affect your expectations of her.

I agree. Particularly since she has relatives who live far away and who don't get to see her. This seems to be a control issue, and she is being rude and destroying something for the rest of the extended family. If you're into logical consequences, I would make the logical consequence that she can't participate in the fun things your family does if she won't do the bare minimum to be part of the family. I hate being photographed too, as I always look totally awful, but it doesn't hurt and it takes less than a second and it makes my parents happy to have my photograph. I was very serious about photography in high school and college, and I joked that if I was the one taking the photos, I would never have to be in them!

Her deleting photos off of your camera is also a huge issue, IMO, as it's destroying someone else's property: your photo that you took. I would not let that stand at all.

[FiveLittleMonkeys]

Originally Posted by Belia

My opinion may be very unpopular around here, but I think your daughter is being rude.

She is 14 years old- old enough to understand that there are some things that she should do in spite of the fact that she doesn't want to.

Eat your vegetables, go to the dentist- we do these things to stay healthy.

Hold open a door for other people, say please and thank you, pose for pictures when it means a lot to your mom- we do these things to be kind and polite and generous.

I don't think its unreasonable to ask or require her to pose for a limited number of pictures 2-3 times a year (like a PP said- maybe Christmas, birthday, back to school). There's a safety issue too. If she refuses, then I would refuse to do something "optional" for her that she expects / enjoys.

The only mystery part of this question is the fact that you think she may be on the autism spectrum. I'm not sure if that fact should affect your expectations of her.

I agree - I have a just turned 15 yo, and this would be exactly how it would be handled at our house. I would respect the fact that she didn't want to be in pictures ALL the time, she would respect (or at least tolerate) that I would like a FEW. With at least a decent look on her face - not necessarily a smile, but not a frown, grimace or with her hand in front of her face. At 14, she is old enough to do this.

I would also be very upset about the deletion of pictures from my camera.

[Tigerchild]

Is there any chance that perhaps (because she is a pretty girl and shy) that she has been harassed by photo taking that you don't know of? I'm grateful that in my JH/HS days that all cellphones didn't come with cameras for the gym locker room or at other activities. Since there was a sudden change right at puberty (12ish)...I think there are a lot of things that go on that sometimes we don't know about. Was a friend harassed by email/photo texting?

I guess I do not understand what people who think it's okay to force her to have a picture taken or be exiled from family events since she's not doing her "bare minimum to be part of the family" would hope to accomplish by forcing the situation. That sounds like a real moment for connection to me. And it totally wouldn't just feed even further into a power struggle.

Things happen to photos. Houses burn down. Hard drives crash, without backup. The OP does have pictures of DD, just not ones that she particularly likes.

You can't force someone to have an expression that you like. At least pre-digital age, you couldn't--I guess you could give a kid hell now with instant feedback since you don't have a couple of weeks until you develop the film. And what on earth would that accomplish? You might have a prettier picture, but would it be worth the power struggle and relationship bomb, especially if (for whatever reason) the person found it violating?

Edited to add: I also think it's out of line for the DD to be messing with a camera that isn't hers. On the other hand, if she had asked and still felt extremely strongly about the picture taking and her wishes were ignored, I could understand the impulse. But exiling her from family activities because she doesn't want her picture taken? That seems extreme to me. I'm not sure an extreme reaction to an extreme reaction is going to get *anyone* what they want in the end. What would you do if you forced that issue and they called the bluff decided to just withdraw completely from the family? Would that be something desired or enforced?

I don't know. To me, telling someone that they weren't going to be allowed to be around family activities because they refused to get their picture taken, and therefore removing them from family just because of a few pictures is to heavy a price for everyone involved. But then again, pictures don't mean that much to me. I'm not sure I can even remotely begin to relate to that kind of sentiment.

[Theoretica]

The fact that this started around age 12 tells me this is more a teen angst thing than a personality quirk. As a mom of a 16 and 19yo, one of whom is high functioning autistic and the other is borderline personality disorder, my vote is to gently but firmly have a discussion where the boundaries are made clear.

1. You have bent over backwards to accommodate her apparent/supposed problem with having her picture taken. Instead of it helping or improving her behavior (which would be a logical result if this was truly the issue at hand), her behavior has become more and more inappropriate.

2. I think you are doing GREAT to agree to take LESS pictures of her, but part of the beauty of compromise is that she will agree to have SOME pictures taken of her. It's not compromising when she gets her way and you get nothing in return. Her 'right' to not like pictures of herself does not trump your 'right' to take pictures of your family, of which she is a valuable member.

3. She absolutely does not have the right to RUIN pictures you take, whether by waving a hand in front of her face, deleting them off your camera, or any other such nonsense. My response to one of my teens behaving this way would be to ask them to return to our family activity when they are ready/able/willing to be a part of it. Then we break out the ice cream, which usually results in aforementioned teen showing up pretty quickly and nothing more is said.

As for people saying pictures aren't the only way to have memories...

When my mom died when I was 12, I lost everything I had. Every possession I owned was left behind as I was shuttled from family to family and eventually ended up in foster care with nothing more than a pillowcase with a couple changes of clothes. Every memory I had was stolen from me for various reasons.

Last year some distant relatives found me and sent me a photo album. It was about 50 pictures of my childhood. So many of these memories were totally forgotten until I opened this book and they all flooded back. Sadly, my mother was of the 'don't take pictures of me' camp and I have MAYBE 5 pictures of her spanning my entire childhood. It's heartbreaking that her issues with pictures are now a roadblock to memories of my brief time with her. Pictures DO matter to some people. It's ok if they don't matter (yet? Ever?) to this teen, but they DO matter to the OP and it's ok for her to expect a reasonable amount of family pictures without asinine teenage behavior.

OP:

[Drummer's Wife]

Originally Posted by Tigerchild

A violation is a violation.

It might mean a lot for relatives who are visiting and who don't see kids very often to get a hug too, it's a way to be kind and polite even if you're not so inclined.

Yet I am sure people wouldn't suggest doing the old school forcing children to hug people they didn't want to.

Other people don't have the right to your body. They don't have a right to the image of your body either.

If something makes someone feel violated, then you should not do it. No matter how "silly" you might think it is.

I agree with this, and am surprised others would force or feel like it's their right as a parent to be able to take pictures of a teen who isn't comfortable with it. I love photography, and love pics of my kids - but to look back on a photo of a person who clearly was not happy with having their pic taken seems to defeat the purpose of preserving that memory. I guess I just look at it as a respect thing. If a co-worker refused to allow a pic taken of them, or a friend, most people would honor that. Chances are it's just a phase - so maybe it lasts a couple years - likely those people who continued to hate being photographed never "grew out of it" b/c others made it such a big issue. I just don't think it's the end of the world. Sure, I would be a little bummed if this was how my DD felt, but I'd respect her wishes. We're not talking about something dangerous or immoral here - just photographs.

[rachelsmama]

I think those of you who are saying that the OP's daughter is just being rude are underestimating the daughter's discomfort. As a teenager I was not comfortable in my skin. The only way I can think to describe how it felt to have my mother force me into family photos is like this:

You just got out of bed after far too little sleep. It's the first day of your period and you're crampy, cranky and bloated. The water isn't working and your hair really really needs a wash. The only clothes you can find look ugly on you. When you are half dressed, with your least favourite body parts fully exposed your husband walks in and says "I need to take a photo of you right now to send to everybody we know. If you love me you'll smile. If you won't let me take this photo I won't hug or kiss or cuddle you for a week."

[lindberg99]

Originally Posted by rachelsmama

I think those of you who are saying that the OP's daughter is just being rude are underestimating the daughter's discomfort. As a teenager I was not comfortable in my skin. The only way I can think to describe how it felt to have my mother force me into family photos is like this:

You just got out of bed after far too little sleep. It's the first day of your period and you're crampy, cranky and bloated. The water isn't working and your hair really really needs a wash. The only clothes you can find look ugly on you. When you are half dressed, with your least favourite body parts fully exposed your husband walks in and says "I need to take a photo of you right now to send to everybody we know. If you love me you'll smile. If you won't let me take this photo I won't hug or kiss or cuddle you for a week."

That is totally true! I don't think it's odd at all that this started at 12. That's when it started for me too, although not to such an extreme. I still get mad at my kids when they try to take pics of me when I'm sitting around in my PJ's with my glasses on, etc. And I make them delete the picture.

OP, is your DD in any sports or activities? I used to like getting my picture taken when I was at horse shows with my horse. Maybe she would like some action shots of her playing soccer or something like that where the focus isn't so much on her, but on the activity?

[pixiekisses]

Originally Posted by EFmom

As someone who has never liked to be photographed, I'd say just respect her wishes and drop it. You don't need to offer excuses to other people.

Originally Posted by rachelsmama

Relax, lack of photos is not neglect or abuse.

Originally Posted by MusicianDad

You know it is possible to keep a memory book of DD1 without photos. In this situation, I would start a journal about DD1 so she has something in the future to use to look back. No photos, just mom writing about her and her accomplishments and maybe a few momentos from the time. My friend hates getting his picture taken, always has, but he has a box of little keepsakes to remember the important things that happened.

Just want to say to some of the PP, not wanting your picture taken is not selfish behaviour, nor is it something that needs to be grown out of.

Candid photos are even worse for someone who doesn't like their picture taken, it's violating their personal boundaries without even consulting them first.

Originally Posted by MusicianDad

*sigh*

It is selfish to force someone to have their picture taken when they clearly don't want it just because you want to have the visual memory. If someone who doesn't like pictures hears you out and agrees to have the one picture take, fine. But if they continue to say "no" and insist on taking their picture or punishing them not sitting for a picture then yes, you are being selfish because their comfort clearly doesn't matter as much as your desire for a piece of paper

I hate having my picture taken, I have since I was in my early teens too. And trust me, trying to force it or trying to get it anyway will only make it worse. I might have been over it by now if it weren't for all the people in my family trying to do candid ones, threatening to send them out, put them on the net etc. It's so hurtful and disrespectful, it actually ruined my whole relationship with several of the most stubborn ones who insisted on trying to take my picture all the time.

I will only allow pictures with my kids and my dear now, I'll do it because I want them myself, and want them to be able to look in albums as they grow up and actually see they had a mom too. But only with my own camera, 'coz I have total control of them that way. And only if you ask nicely first, or I want some myself so I ask my dear to take some. But if someone else tries with their camera and without asking, I will look away, cover my face with hands, hair, books etc.

She might change her mind if she gets a boyfriend, or if she gets married, or have children. Just respect her wishes.

[lolar2]

One of my cousins hates having her picture taken-- she is 18 now and she has hated it since she was 12. Our family has evolved the following agreement with her: she will agree to be in ONE posed and ONE candid picture at every big family occasion (and I mean big, as in a holiday or a wedding). If that picture doesn't turn out well, too bad, no re-takes. No one will try to take her picture at any other time, at least not of her face. She also is willing to have her picture taken once in a while if she is holding a baby/ small child on her lap, partially covering her face (she has one nephew and one or two younger cousins).

That works well and doesn't seem to put too much pressure on her. It's very important, though, that we all honor our promise NEVER to take a picture of my cousin that she hasn't agreed to-- otherwise the system collapses! Also, it's mainly her face she doesn't like photographed, so she doesn't mind having her picture taken from the back. If your daughter feels that way, she might be willing to let you take a picture of her from the back, like if she is sitting on a floor opening presents or something, you might be able to (with previous permission, of course) get a shot of that. That kind of thing is good enough for a private scrapbook IMO.

[chiara]

from age 13 - 20 or so there are very few pictures of me, and most of them are of me scowling. I have since recovered. sounds more to me like an adolescent issue than a photo issue.

[somelady]

eh, she's doing better than my brother who at 26 still flips the bird pretty much whenever someone tries to take his picture. Though since it's now just for the immediate family we mostly just laugh about it. And I imagine being left out of family activities would have been considered just dandy when he was 14.

[sewchris2642]

Erica hated having her picture taken. But then she hated being noticed at all which was a blessing when she was out in public--no temper tantrums then. We told her that if she cooperated for the first picture, she didn't have to do any repeats. She didn't have to smile, just cooperate. I don't think that we got anything more than a Mona Lisa smile out of her until she became an adult.

[lach]

I guess I'd like to amend my previous suggestions, after reading so many posts about this issue.

Either this is teenage angst and she's being rude, in which case I'd insist that she cut it out in whatever manner works (punishment, bribery, a talk, etc).

Or this is extremely low self-esteem of the type described by some posters, in which case I'd suggest she see someone. Because not only is that no way to go through life but I'd also be worried about the many possibilities for trouble that a teenage girl with a pathologically low level of self-worth could get up to: eating disorders, self-mutilating behavior, abusive relationships, poor decision making, refusal to think about consequences and the future just occurring to me off the top of my head.

Either way, I don't think that her behavior is normal or appropriate. Some people have religious or spiritual reasons for not wanting to be in photographs, and that I understand and respect. But refusing to be in a single photograph to send to grandma? I'm sorry, but that's totally different and imo not okay. You don't even have to look at it, if it's off at grandma's house, so the excuse about not wanting to see yourself in a photograph doesn't even make sense.

[triscuitsmom]

Originally Posted by MusicianDad

*sigh*

It is selfish to force someone to have their picture taken when they clearly don't want it just because you want to have the visual memory. If someone who doesn't like pictures hears you out and agrees to have the one picture take, fine. But if they continue to say "no" and insist on taking their picture or punishing them not sitting for a picture then yes, you are being selfish because their comfort clearly doesn't matter as much as your desire for a piece of paper

I have to agree with all of this.

[triscuitsmom]

Originally Posted by Tigerchild

A violation is a violation.

It might mean a lot for relatives who are visiting and who don't see kids very often to get a hug too, it's a way to be kind and polite even if you're not so inclined.

Yet I am sure people wouldn't suggest doing the old school forcing children to hug people they didn't want to.

Other people don't have the right to your body. They don't have a right to the image of your body either.

If something makes someone feel violated, then you should not do it. No matter how "silly" you might think it is.

I agree with this too.

Why do we take pictures? To preserve memories. We want to take them we do NOT need to take them. There are other ways to preserve memories. And if this daughter is fine with other people knowing that they don't get to see her in pictures because she doesn't want her picture taken then she is the one that can handle that. It's her choice. We might want pictures but it does not mean that our want is more important than the wants of those who the picture is being taken of. It just doesn't.

[Latte Mama]

I love pictures because I do feel they are a big part of preserving memories for me. I would be heartbroken if my DS at some point refused to have his picture taken.

I think for the OP, your daughter is displaying some teenage angst and some selfishness. Of course you also are displaying some selfishness as well (not a bad thing) because you want the pics. Therefore you both need to compromise. I think your daughter could manage to have her picture taken 1-2 times a year. A picture is not torture, not abusive. It's no worse than having people look at you everyday. I'm sure she doesn't walk around with her hand in front of her face scowling all the time (hopefully not?).

I'm not trying to make light of whatever her issue is. But really I think this is more her age than anything else.

[Irishmommy]

I had my 15yo dd who doesn't like getting her picture taken, read the OP. She suggests therapy for your dd. She reads depression (if accompanied by constant fatigue) into the description of your dd in the OP.

She also says that once in a while, your dd should be forced to at least act happy for photos (eg. the Christmas card one). She says your dd doesn't have to smile, but no death glare.

This is a direct quote, she's reading over my shoulder.