Sleep issues with 4-year-old twins - x-posted in night-time parenting

[kir]

We never sleep trained or used CIO or anything with our twin girls. They have always been bad sleepers, but I did years of feeding all through the night, walking them to sleep in strollers, rocking them all night, etc. etc. They just turned 4, and I think we have reached our sleep-deprivation limit.

Right now, my twins go to sleep in their bedroom right next to DH and my room. They occasionally wake up at night, and then they come to us. But usually they sleep through the night. Getting even to this point, so I could potentially get 8 straight hours of sleep a night, was a huge step, and it didn't happen very long ago.

The problem is the falling-asleep process. It's unpredictable and difficult -- if I run the girls ragged all day without a single moment of down-time, constant snacks, lots of tiring outdoor play, etc.....then they MIGHT go to sleep easily, at around 7:30. OR they might not. They might get inexplicably overtired and go nuts, fighting and wrestling. Or they may lie in bed asking to be patted (both of them, which is not easy to do....) for like 2 hours. Whoever is doing the putting-to-sleep has to be right there with them til they are out, or there are problems and protests, and the whole process can get dragged out indefinitely.

I have no one to talk to except for my DH, and I think we are now chronically sleep-deprived to the point that we cannot think of a good solution.

I can't talk to any twin moms in real life, because even the people i like in other ways all swear by crazy tactics: putting locks on the kids' doors, letting them cry/scream even at this age, etc. etc. We are not going to go that route. I'm not even looking for less time with my kids. I just cannot take (and, honestly, my marriage cannot take) 5-hour-long bedtime routines. Today, i gave the girls dinner at like 5:15, before DH was home. Then when he got home at like 6 we gave them baths, got in PJs, brushed. At like 7 they were in bed listening to stories. It's now 9:15 and he's still in there doing Lord-knows-what!!! I often volunteer to put the girls to bed, because if DH does it he'll fall asleep, and then i won't see him all evening.

Just so you know: we've tried charts with the bedtime routine, daytime discussions, changes to the room temp, doing read-aloud instead of picture book, etc. etc.

I just want to be able to leave the room when the girls are falling asleep, so that i can eat dinner with DH and get to bed before midnight once in a while.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance for any help.

[mommia]

Ok I only have one child, however the sleep issues are something I know well lol! One thing I've learned is making sure that the bedtime routine is consistent is really important. Keeping lights dim and distractions to a minimum is another key. I wonder if your dh just getting home when they're getting ready to wind down for the day might be hard for them. If you think this could be an issue maybe try pushing bedtime back maybe 20 minutes for them to play a quiet game with dad after their bath (could even be a reward for cooperating at bedtime the night before to give them something to look forward to?) then continue with the routine.

Another idea may be to ask them what they think helps them fall asleep the best and consistently just do those things. Another thing that worked for someone I know is having a tape of peaceful music playing in their room at the end of the routine and just sitting their with them after hugs and kisses and goodnights eventually moving farther away from their beds until you're in the hall.

Whatever you try be consistent for a couple of weeks before throwing in the towel and trying something else.

My heart goes out to you I know how hard this is on you and your husband. You deserve time to yourselves and couple time in the evening and all 4 of you deserve and need a good nights sleep.

There's a book out there called the no cry sleep solution for toddlers and preschoolers ( I think that's the title) and it has some really good ideas and everything is very pro ap. I think it's be Elizabeth Pantley (let me know and I can check for sure if you're interested).

Good luck and think how far you've already come, you can do this!

((((hugs)))))

[Shuli]

I so can sympathize. I have not really slept in two years. We are just now starting to get on track. Here are some helpful tips that worked for us.

I agree with the PP. Conistancy is very important. We have a schedule of the day, nothing is written in stone and if something comes up we deviate, but we get back on track as soon as possible. That way the kids know what to expect next and what is expected of them. I also give them warnings before we change activities - especially between play after dinner and bath time.

For us it has always been dinner, bath, teeth, story/songs, bed. They didn't always go to sleep on their own, but we were always in the room on the days they decided not to cooperate. Once the kids were out of their cribs, we talked to them about what was expected (on a two year old level) and if they stayed in their beds all night, they got a treat in the morning - a bit of chocolate milk with breakfast or a toy that they hadn't seen in a while. After a week or two they were hardly coming into our bed in the middle of the night and we could stop the "treat" system.

We start the routine at around the same time every night, so their bodies are ready for sleep. And having a strict routine helps when we are knocked off course (like on music class days the routine starts half an hour later, or if they didn't take a long enough nap and I need to start it earlier to avoid getting overtired) but they still know what to expect. Good thing they can't tell time

When they come out of their beds we use the "rapid return method" in which you just constatnly and consitently lead them back to their room and put them back into bed when they come out. The first week or so I think we returned them about 500 times, but as the days wore on it was less and less and now when they come out we only have to put them back once. If you do decide to do this, just remember not to engage with them or have a conversation, that will just reward them for coming out. If you want more tips, feel free to PM me.

I second the no cry sleep solution. We used it and it works if you commit to it.

Good luck, and happy sleeping.

[lexbeach]

We hit the same wall when our twins were newly four (we also had a new baby at that point). We told the kids, about a week ahead of time, that the bedtime routine was going to change. We were no longer going to stay in the room until they fell asleep, holding their hands (we had progressed from nursing to sleep to snuggling to sleep, to hand-holding to sleep, but then progress halted and we were stalled there for about a year). Instead, we would read two books, sing two songs, and say good-night.

We used a method similar to the cry-it-out method, but without any crying! We would check on the kids after the original good-night. First we'd check after 1 minute, then after 3 minutes, then after 5 minutes, then after 7 minutes, etc. The kids did protest, but did not cry. We just explained that mom and mama really needed some alone time in the evenings so that we could think of all the fun things to do with the kids the next day.

Our twins, now nearly 7, go to sleep independently to this day, but still come into our bed in the middle of the night, which is fine with us.

I think it's important to remain confident and upbeat while making changes to any bedtime routine. Remember, your kids will reflect your state of being. If you are feeling desperate and frazzled and frustrated--and showing it--your kids will feel and act the same way.

Good luck!

Lex

[OGirlieMama]

I wish I could help you, but all I can do is commiserate. Mine don't take quite as long to go to sleep as yours, most nights. But they don't sleep through the night *ever* and I have same problem with my husband falling asleep in there! I like lexbeach's approach and wonder if I have the energy to do that myself.

[MaterBum]

We went through this with our twins around the same age, too. We talked for about a week about why we needed the bedtime routine to change. For us, it was the twins and our older child...we'd leave one room to go through the whole thing again...or we'd be in different rooms falling asleep!

Anyway, here's what we did.

1. Talked that the change was coming and why. Had a five-day countdown to the change. In this time, we talked about what they were afraid of, needed, etc. We also talked up how big it was that they were going to try this. We talked about older kids they know and how they go to bed. We promised we would not got to sleep until they were all asleep.

2. Based on our talks, we downloaded nature sounds and burned a CD to play in their room.

3. We got a cool night light (Twilight Turtle).

4. We cuddled with them for 5 minutes, then explained it was time for us to go. We would be back in 5 minutes.

5. We checked on them every 10 minutes.

The first couple of weeks were tough (much more on the parents than the kids I believe). We were exhausted checking every 10 minutes. It was a couple of hours of going in there every 10 minutes with them still wide-eyed. There were nights of them peeking out their door every 30 seconds to see if it had been 10 minutes yet.

Then one night, they were magically asleep by the second check in!

Now, about 5 months later, it's just routine! They don't even need the nature sounds CD any more or the 5 minutes of lying down with them. We tuck them in with kisses, sing a short little song, and turn out the lights. We still check on them after the first 10-15 minutes, but they are usually asleep by then.

So, it can be done. But, it will take a few weeks of wanting to throw in the towel. Now they feel pride in being bigger and doing bedtime like big kids.

Good luck in finding the magic solution for your household! Sleep is a very good thing for everyone!

[kir]

Thanks for all the ideas, everyone.

Things have gotten better, using ideas from here.

We got our girls to understand how tired we are, and how we need to get to sleep on time, too. They said that they don't like it when we say we'll come back in 5 minutes, b/c they never know how long that will be. So we decided we'd offer to check in after each song. We looked through CDs and picked out this international lullaby CD that i have. Now my girls listen to one song from that album on repeat (which i find incredibly NOT sleep-inducing, but that's ok), and then they mostly stay in bed. For now, i'm sitting outside their door reading and checking in every song or two. it's just been one week of this, and things are definitely getting better...so i'm optimistic!

[trumtj]

I have 3yr old twin girls that turn 4 in Jan.  I am 46 yrs old and I feel like I am 100yrs old!  I am soooo tired.  My girls were never good sleepers and when one sleeps the other is up!  Now they are up every 3 hrs with some issue like I have to go pee or I am scared or I cant find my princess brush!  I am so tired that my days, which consist of no naps for them they refuse, that I am truly a walking zombie.  How long can one go without sleep and remain normal.  I have tried gates and daily exercise I even did warm milk and turkey sandwich (thanksgiving after effects make me tired)  We do warm baths with night time lavender bath.  I even put lavender baby oil on them to sooth them,  soft music and a fan for back ground noise.  I have 3 older kids and have never experienced the allnighters like I do with these girls.  Any one who has twins please give me any advice.  I am at wits end.