questions that crossed my mind

[Leonor]

I hope I don't upset anyone with my questions, but it's something that crossed my mind. I think open adoption is a wonderfull thing.

But aren't you afraid when adopting internationally, from developing countries, that the children were kidnapped from their families?

Also, didn't anyone consider the idea of "adopting" a teenage mother or a single mother in a distressful situation and help both the mother and child to grow to independence?

[Leatherette]

I am not upset by your questions, just can't believe you are asking them here. The decision to adopt is not one that people take lightly, and every adoptive parent I have met has done a fair amount of research before chosing a particular program.

Can you ever know everything? No. Do kids still need homes? Yes. At a certain point, you have to take a leap of faith.

Open adoptions are not all sunshine, either. You are ultimately "benefitting" from someone else's tough situation, even though you know they chose an adoption plan. Even if they chose you to parent the child they gave birth to.

I am not sure that teen moms and single moms are "putting themselves up for adoption". It might offend them to think that others think they should be. There are programs to assist teen and single mothers. When people adopt a child, they ultimately want just that, to raise a child, not to start their own social program.

Fussy baby, need to cut it short.

L.

[hhurd]

I am not troubled that you asked your question here. There are so many, many types of adoption situations, there are bound to be some that are shady or exploitive. My experience with international adoption was not positive (it fell through, we lost money, and ended up adopting domestically), but I know many families that had it work out extremely well. And there are thousands (millions?) of children that need loving homes. I do think that the expense of international adoption is often exorbitant, especially when you tranlate that into the currency of the country where the adoption is taking place. Just how much is USD $11,000 worth in Vietnamese money anyway? Enough to maybe make some people do bad things? Perhaps...

[EFmom]

Leonor, do tell, how many teenage mothers or single mothers in distressful situations have you "adopted?" How many foster children have you taken in?

When people adopt a child, they ultimately want just that, to raise a child, not to start their own social program.

Generally speaking, adoptive parents tend to give a lot to support children's causes. We donate as much as we can to orphanage projects in my daughters' provinces. We contribute to pay for surgery for cleft affected children and children with congenital heart problems in my daughters orphanages. We pay for foster care for some special needs kids. We helped buy one orphanage medical equipment. We do these things to help kids who most likely will never be adopted and will grow up in institutions.

But here's a little news. Adoptive parents are no more responsible for supporting single mothers or any other acts of charity than are non-adoptive parents. So, if you want to support single mothers and their children, be my guest. It's not my particular "cause."

There are hundreds of thousands of children sitting in orphanages around the world right now waiting for adoption. Generally speaking, if they age out of the system, their prospects are extraordinarily dim. How concerned are you that they will never find families? I do lose a lot of sleep over this.

The way IA works in my daughters' country makes it a senseless scenario to imagine they were kidnapped, so no, I'm not worried about it in the least.

[OnTheFence]

I wanted to add that I think I read in Adoptive Families magazine that only 1% of mothers who placed children for adoptoin were under 18. Our sons birthmother was 30. She was older than me! And already had a child.
I belong to several adoption groups (one I have been with five years) and only one of the birthmothers was a teenager and she already had a child. Most of the other birthmothers were in their 20s and had compelling reasons not to parent.

Kim

[Leonor]

Originally posted by EFmom
Leonor, do tell, how many teenage mothers or single mothers in distressful situations have you "adopted?" How many foster children have you taken in?

I don't understand why are you asking this. If I was a rich married American I certainly would help other single mothers that want to raise their children and want to be commited to motherhood, like I am. I can't. I was suggesting it to those that can.

When I was in distress I was happy to actually had an offer from a very lovely American family to go live with them. But the American law doesn't allow living with another family as a reason to migrate.

But here's a little news. Adoptive parents are no more responsible for supporting single mothers or any other acts of charity than are non-adoptive parents. So, if you want to support single mothers and their children, be my guest. It's not my particular "cause."

I understand your moral views on the matter. I was questioning the reason people adopt children and help children when adults get so little help of this kind.

The way IA works in my daughters' country makes it a senseless scenario to imagine they were kidnapped, so no, I'm not worried about it in the least. [/B]

I said this because am chocked at the huge amount of money agencies make and the huge amount of money people pay to adopt a child. I don't think it's right. And there are cases of children that are kidnapped from their parents, as there was a case of traffic of eyes - a story of children who were kidnapped, had their eyes removed, so rich American children could have eyesight back.

[EFmom]

If I was a rich married American I certainly would help other single mothers that want to raise their children and want to be commited to motherhood, like I am. I can't.

People who adopt are not necessarily rich. For most of us, adoption is a huge financial stretch. I know quite literally hundreds of adoptive parents and only know one person who could readily afford to adopt without sacrifice. We don't have enormous bank balances. We do it because we want to be parents. We are "committed to motherhood." Not all of us are married. I know many single adoptive parents.

I was questioning the reason people adopt children and help children when adults get so little help of this kind.

I couldn't disagree more. There are, quite literally a dozen "crisis pregnancy" centers in my smallish city. Now, admittedly, their agenda has a whole lot more to do with making sure that women don't obtain abortions than it does with ongoing support after the baby is no longer a baby. But, they are there.

OTOH, hundreds of thousands of children in orphanages around the world do not have dozens of hometown agencies looking out for them. In most countries, when the children reach a certain age, often in their mid teens, they are discharged from the orphanages with little but the clothes on their backs. With no education, no family and few social skills, and the stigma of having been raised in an orphanage, you can imagine what their lives are like. The quality of life while in the orphanages varies, but it is not like having a family even in the best of them.

As for the money involved in IA, it is a lot. But please do a little research about where it goes. My adoptions each cost a little under $15K. That money went to social workers in the US who must prepare a homestudy, to document processing fees and to the INS. Some went to the central agency in the foreign country that processes adoptions. Our agency fee was not particularly big. We paid a chunk to the orphanage, which goes to better the lives of children remaining behind. The single biggest expense was transportation and travel for two adults to stay in country for two weeks.

Documented cases of kidnapping children are very few and far between. Unfortunately, it does occasionally happen in some areas. Adoptive parents do need to be careful. But as another poster pointed out, most do tons of research and are very well aware of the issues going into it.

As for your horror story about the child who had their eyes removed, I would be very interested in hearing the source of this information, because it smacks of urban legend to me.

If you are interested in what really goes on in IA, I recommend, The Children Can't Wait, by Laura Cecere.

[Leonor]

Originally posted by EFmom
I couldn't disagree more. There are, quite literally a dozen "crisis pregnancy" centers in my smallish city. Now, admittedly, their agenda has a whole lot more to do with making sure that women don't obtain abortions than it does with ongoing support after the baby is no longer a baby. But, they are there.

Yes, but those don't really help. That was my point.

As for your horror story about the child who had their eyes removed, I would be very interested in hearing the source of this information, because it smacks of urban legend to me.

It wasn't an online rumour, it was a news item on TV a long time ago.

Thanks for all your information.

[EFmom]

For the adoption of children for body parts myth, see http://www.iavaan.org/News/Body_Parts_Business.htm

[Amazlilith]

Here is the issue I find in this whole post...Just because I can not or chose not to bear a child, why do I then need to become responsible for someone that goes and gets pregnant? I want to be a mother to a baby, raise that baby as if I gave birth to it. You can not place social responcibility on us just because we adopt this is a question for everyone in society.

[Laurel]

I adopted because I wanted to be a parent. As honorable and fulfilling as it would be to help out a teenage mother, that would not make me a parent. Perhaps this sounds selfish, but to that I would say that no parent, bio or adoptive, has children for purely unselfish reasons. It's just that when you're a bio parent, people rarely question or examine those reasons. When you're an adoptive parent, sudden you're under the microscope.

My ds's birthmother would have had a great deal of support if she had chosen to parent him. But she didn't. There were things she wanted him to have that she couldn't give him, no matter how much support she had. Her decision to place him for adoption was made independently of dh and me. If we had not adopted him, she would have placed him with someone else. I know that there are cases of birthmothers being pressured into adoption, but I also know that this was definitely not the case for my son's birthmom. If anything, she was pressured greatly NOT to place him.

It seems like you're assuming (correct me if I've misinterpreted) that the decision to place a child for adoption is the wrong decision and would only have been made if the woman lacked education and support or was pressured into making it. This just isn't so. Again, I know there are situations where woman are pressured into choosing adoption, and I think this is WRONG, but I do think adoption is a completely legitimate choice that should be made available to women along with other choices. I've seen birthmothers vilified for their decision, told that they are "bad" mothers, etc. I also think that there are people who should have and probably would have placed their children for adoption if that choice had been made available to them in an unbiased, informed manner. I guess I've just seen both sides. I've seen women receive incredible pressure to parent children that they know they aren't ready to parent, and I think this is just as wrong as pressuring someone to place a child for adoption.

I can't really comment on IA since our adoption was domestic. I don't think I'd worry too much about kidnapping though. If it was a concern, there are proper channels to fight things like this, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't adopt a child at all. If I was in an adoption situation and had bad vibes or uneasy feelings about such possibilities in relation to an agency or particular child, I would surely hope that I would have the integrity to back out.

[OnTheFence]

Originally posted by Leonor
I
I said this because am chocked at the huge amount of money agencies make and the huge amount of money people pay to adopt a child. I don't think it's right. And there are cases of children that are kidnapped from their parents, as there was a case of traffic of eyes - a story of children who were kidnapped, had their eyes removed, so rich American children could have eyesight back.

This burns me up. Most agencies are NOT FOR PROFIT. Our social worker who owns an agency works like a dog for pennies and often times neglecting her own children because babies get born or problems come up during school events, vacations, etc. Also people pay FEES to adopt. Its not cheap for homestudies, legal, paper work, counseling, plus these agenceis have overhead like building fees and utilities, plus pay their staff.

Who are you to judge what is the right price of fees? or peoples intentions when adopting.

[hhurd]

I cannot speak for the OP, but I can speak to exorbitant adoption fees, which I have experienced first hand. For such a regulated transaction, the infinite variety of fees and expenses seemed mighty irregular to my husband and I. We had no objection to paying the agency, social workers, lawyers, etc...for their hard work but every time we turned around there was some new expense that came out of nowhere. When you are in the middle of the adoption process and eager to move forward you pay up rather than argue. Our adoption cost us thousands more than we were told to expect. Much more than the highest estimate, and it actually went really smoothly. We joked that we wished there was an adoption better business bureau for us to turn to. And, everyone's expenses are soooo different, it just seems so random, kwim?

The OP's opinions about the expense of adoption are not that unusual. I encounter such questions all the time, and I think there's a grain of truth in them. Why the indignent reactions to her questions? There's plenty of room for improvement in the world of adoption, IMO.

[EFmom]

I guess I find annoying the assumption that because one is interested in adoption, one is somehow much more responsible for single mothers, or whatever social ill is being discussed than anyone else. Normally these aspersions are being cast by people who themselves do nothing to fix the problem they complain about, but for some reason we are presumed to have this responsibility.

Frankly I get sick of it. If it's not this particular question, it's "why didn't you adopt from the foster care system," from people who never in a million years would think about adopting from the foster care system, and who are usually clueless about what that entails.

There is nothing stopping the OP from paying out to raise other people's children, nor is there anything stopping the foster care promoters from adopting from that system. People seldom walk up to bio parents and ask them why they chose to give birth to children when their money would be better spend supporting single mothers.

hhurd, I am sorry that you had a bad experience with international adoption. I had zero surprises with the fees for my two adoptions. The only item that was mildly unanticipated was an airline charge for overweight luggage that amounted to $40. In fact, the first adoption cost considerably less than what we were quoted because the agency found they didn't need to charge as much for their end of the program, and thus they reduced their fees. We had signed on at the higher fee, and they were under absolutely no obligation to give us a break, but they did.

We did a lot of research to find a good program and a reputable agency that DOES have the interests of orphaned and abandoned children at heart and it payed off for us.

[hhurd]

I absolutely agree with the first part of your post, EFmom. It annoyes me too that so many people expect adoptive parents to be so much more "socially responsible" than parents who give birth.

Regarding the expense issue...To clarify, I was not speaking about our IA experience in my last post, I was refrencing our successful DA. Which occured after losing thousands of dollars and spending 18 months trying to adopt from Vietnam. In both cases we spent a long time researching agencies and checking refrences and chose the agency that had the best reputation, as far as we could tell. Several members of our community had successful experiences with them, like it sounds like you did with yours, which makes my point, I think. To clarify further, I don't think it was necessarily the agency's fault that things were so much more expensive than we expected. Just the nature of the flawed beast.

[Leatherette]

The OP's opinions about the expense of adoption are not that unusual. I encounter such questions all the time, and I think there's a grain of truth in them. Why the indignent reactions to her questions? There's plenty of room for improvement in the world of adoption, IMO.

If the questions were directed at the world of adoption rather than at adoptive parents, they would be appropriate. If she had asked, "Do you all know if there are safeguards in place to ensure that agencies do not place kidnapped children?" or "Wouldn't it be great if there were more programs to support single/young moms who wanted to try to parent their children?", I would not be indignant, I'd be nodding my head in agreement.

The follow-up posts referring to all of the "rich Americans" adopting, even for body parts for their bio children further taints the intent of the original post.

I have had my daughter with me for less than two months, and already a few acquaintances have asked me if I love her as much as my bio-child ("is it the same?"). It doesn't get less offensive as more people ask it.

When you adopt a child, you expect lots of questions and comments that don't sit right with you. I generally answer any questions honestly and in a way that paints my daughter, adoption, and birthparents in a positive light. I think everyone here has been civil and positive, if not a wee bit indignant.

L.

[Leonor]

Originally posted by EFmom
For the adoption of children for body parts myth, see http://www.iavaan.org/News/Body_Parts_Business.htm

The world is full of evil people, people believe in what they want. What I saw was a news item and I remember children that didn't have eyes.

[AdinaL]

Perhaps, asking the question of the adoption "industry" in general rather than pointing the question at the parent would have been better phrasing.

There are evil people everywhere. But they aren't hiding under every bed, waiting for unsuspecting people to jump on.

The media has a spin all its own sometimes - no clue what they want sometimes, or what they choose to prove.

In addition, please remember to be sensitive to the mamas here. No decision regarding parenting is made lightly. By any of us here. Making any of them sound like they have been done for the wrong reasons or done incorrectly will raise the hackles of any mama here.

Much and to all of you.

[BunnysMomma]

Originally posted by hhurd

The OP's opinions about the expense of adoption are not that unusual. I encounter such questions all the time, and I think there's a grain of truth in them. Why the indignent reactions to her questions? There's plenty of room for improvement in the world of adoption, IMO.

Because the general perception is that adoptive parents buy their children but bio parents don't. Health insurance pays for the cost of having a child, but parents pay for the cost of adopting a child. People don't equate paying a doctor, a hospital, etc. with paying an agency, and attorney, etc. So adoptive parents are looked at suspiciously.

And often times the people who ask these questions are very accusatory and want to argue when you answer their questions.

It all has to do with society not yet accepting the legitimacy of adoptive families.

And btw, there's a lot of room for improvement in the birth industry in this country, as well, but when people talk about that, parents are the victims of the problem. They are not secret colluders!

Wilma

[hhurd]

BunnysMomma wrote:

"And btw, there's a lot of room for improvement in the birth industry in this country, as well, but when people talk about that, parents are the victims of the problem. "


I think there are many adoptive parents, and children waiting to be adopted, that ARE the victims of the "adoption industry" in this, and other, countries. Do I mean every adoptive parent and adopted child? Of course not. Recognizing that there is room for improvement does not taint individual adoption experiences, just like recognizing there is room for improvement in the birth industry does not taint individual birth experiences.

I distinguish my child from the process that brought him to me (i.e., adoption), so it's possible for me to be critical of the process. Criticizing the adoption industry (and yes, I think it's an industry) does NOT equal criticizing my family.