questions that crossed my mind - Page 7

[Leatherette]

But I don't see your views as a counterpoint, really. I agree with most of your views.

Your assumptions are what I take exception to. When one adoptive mom said that her child was exposed to cocaine in utero, you were so surprised that that could happen, and were apologetic and implied, "Oh, well I didn't mean adoptive moms like you". It happens, and probably with more moms who are reading this thread and not interested in disclosing it. And you assume adoptive parents have their heads in the sand over real adoption issues.

I think the tone of the thread went sour before you arrived, anyway, with the "rich white Americans buying children for their body parts" thing. Yes, there are ugly things going down in the world. I don't think anyone here denies it. But I don't think that every 45 year old unmarried male kids' soccer coach is a pedophile, either.

I see that you have now given the mamas here credit for doing their homework and caring enough to have ethical adoptions. Thanks! But I got this feeling throughout the thread that you and Leonor were ignoring the moms who were saying things that didn't back up your stance, and waiting to hear from the adoptive parents who were pissed off because they said they wanted a kid with blue eyes and they were only offered ones with hazel, dammit. I don't think there are any of those here. I haven't met any IRL, either. I am really sorry if you have.

I don't think people here are unwilling to debate and don't want to hear birthmothers' opinions. It's the repeated slamming of an agenda without hearing others' experiences and viewpoints that gets people a little hot under the collar. And man, I am going to use the word one more time: assumptions.

L.

[Leatherette]

Yes, and another brava to EFmom and to pugmadmama for pointing her very valid point out.

L.

[kate-astrophe]

Originally posted by EFmom
...I wonder this very same thing about people who give birth to more than two children. Personally, I think overpopulation is the ultimate in environmental degradation. But I don't feel the need to go into the Finding Your Tribe threads for quiverful people or the mothers of large families and tell people that they ought to be doing more soul searching before they continue to breed. Nor do I tell them that they should voluntarily offer to pay more taxes because their families use more government-supplied services... "

I don't know how many times I'm going to say this, but I POSTED SOMETHING RELEVANT TO A DEBATE ALREADY IN PROGRESS. I did not target a group of people randomly and go and try my best to insult them, as you have insinuated. I did not do anything wrong by posting my opinion and responding to what others have said to me. If you had responded to a thread called "How many kids is too many?" your opinion would probably be not that well received and would spark debate, but it would be within your rights to participate in the discussion. I feel you are trying to deny my this right because you don't agree with what I have to say.

Originally posted by Leatherette
Your assumptions are what I take exception to. When one adoptive mom said that her child was exposed to cocaine in utero, you were so surprised that that could happen, and were apologetic and implied, "Oh, well I didn't mean adoptive moms like you".

I was hardly surprised. And I didn't, and I never meant to, point accusations at anyone in particular. Why can't someone talk about the problems in adoption *in general* without some feeling defensive? Can't I criticize adoption without condemning the people who adopt ethically?

I said before that my opinions are drawn from my own experience. Experience has told me that there are plenty of people who are willing to bury their heads in the sand if it enables them to have a family. Why is this not a problem that deserves discussion?

Originally posted by Leatherette
I don't think people here are unwilling to debate and don't want to hear birthmothers' opinions. It's the repeated slamming of an agenda without hearing others' experiences and viewpoints that gets people a little hot under the collar. And man, I am going to use the word one more time: assumptions.

When someone is told not to post a link to a factual article because it might hurt someone's feelings, I'd call that an unwillingness to debate. I would not have posted here if I thought debate was unwelcome.

I am not the only one with an agenda here, and I'm not the only one making assumptions. Having a bias is part of being human. Being able to hash out out biases without getting hurt and offended is part of having a debate.

-Kate

[sugarmoon]

IdentityCrisisMama wrote:

I wonder how you feel about parents who want a child but who also adopt partially because they feel "called" by the need for good adoptive parents.

Sorry I wasn't clear. Let me elaborate . My experience is as a post-adoption case manager working with families who have adopted from the foster care system (so older kids, most/many with attachment disorder, PTSD, learning problems, etc).

IME, the *most* successful adoptive parents are those who:

1) want to be parents to a (or another) child
2) have chosen adoption, and the particular *type* of adoption (in this case fost-adoption) after carefully educating themselves about the unique challenges (and rewards) adoption brings
3) are able to access supports to help them through the normative adoption issues and any particular special needs their child(ren) may have, without feeling like it reflects badly on them as a parent.

and IME, the *least* successful adoptive parents are those who:

1) were motivated to adopt primarily because they felt it would be a good deed, especially when they then expect the child to be appreciative and grateful to them for providing a "rescue".
2)were motivated to adopt *only* because they were unable to have biological children (I know that many people come to adoption b/c of infertility and make great parents. I was working w/ parents who adopted very challenging children from the foster care system, mostly b/c it is very affordable, and were then unprepared to parent these kids, and were still mourning the loss of a "normal" parenting experience)

So, there is a very long answer ICM:LOL . I think wanting to adopt as a because you want to be a parent *and* because you feel that adoption rather than reproduction is a good choice for you is great. I also think you are absolutely doing the right thing to really check out how you feel about different types of adoptive situations, and acknowledge that not all are for you. Of course, then, like all parents do, you need to let go and recognize that life may throw you a curve ball anyhow.

EFmom and Bunnysmomma, thank you for being so much more eloquent than I could ever be!

[pugmadmama]

Originally posted by kate-astrophe
... I feel you are trying to deny my this right because you don't agree with what I have to say...

Oh, give me a break. Nothing grates on my nerves like the "martyr" angle when it is totally uncalled for. No one is trying to "deny your rights". They are challenging you on your bias and, frankly, lack of tact.

Originally posted by kate-astrophe
... I said before that my opinions are drawn from my own experience. Experience has told me that there are plenty of people who are willing to bury their heads in the sand if it enables them to have a family. Why is this not a problem that deserves discussion?...

So, then, you do think it would be okay to go to the "I'm Pregnant" boards and start "wondering" why people are being so selfish in insisting on birthing their own babies when there are so many children already in foster care? Or would that just be rude, insenstive and uncalled for?

Originally posted by kate-astrophe
I am not the only one with an agenda here, and I'm not the only one making assumptions. Having a bias is part of being human. Being able to hash out out biases without getting hurt and offended is part of having a debate...

You are a birth mother. And so your continued insistance you are just trying to "generally" discuss adoption is patently false. You seem to be trying to work through some issues, which is fine, but to work through it under false pretences, in my opinion, is not fine.

[pugmadmama]

Originally posted by gus'smama
My experience is as a post-adoption case manager working with families who have adopted from the foster care system (so older kids, most/many with attachment disorder, PTSD, learning problems, etc). ..

Thank you for the work you do and for sharing your wisdom here!