Concerns about possibly vaxing after deciding not to vax

[bluedaisy]

My 13 mo dd has not had any vaxes, and we are very comfortable with that decision.

my dh is from kenya and will be doing a 3 month internship there over the summer, so we will be spending the summer in nairobi.

now i am researching all the diseases to see if the benefits of vaxing would outweigh the risks.

however, now that i've researched vaxes, i am terrified of getting my dd any vaxes - the thought of taking her in to the doctor, getting a vax, and then the following hours/days/weeks waiting to see if she will react literally makes me sick to my stomach.

this happened when i was pg and decided not to get the prenatal rhogam - my midwives tried to scare me into getting it and i actually set up an appointment to get it, but as the time got closer it just made me sick to my stomach to think about getting it so i cancelled.

this is definitely affecting my research as I really do not want to get her any, but at the same time I realize that there could be some situations where the benefits of vaxes outweigh the risks, so I want to make sure i'm not taking any risks with her not having any vaxes before we go to nairobi

anyway, my question is, if you decided not to vax but then ended up getting one or more vaxes for whatever reason, how did you feel about it?

or, if you decided not to vax, is there any situation that would make you consider vaxing and how would you handle it?

[Marnica]

I do not envy you....the idea of giving DS any vaxes makes me ill as well. I think that there is not much that would get me to inject my son with any of that crap. If I was going to a city where there was an outbreak of a dangerous disease and I felt that should my son contract the disease he would nto receive adequate medical care, I would consider getting that vaccine. In the absense of an outbreak in place where I was going, I wouldn't do it.

I think your Rhogam story is important. You were probably told all kinds of terrible things that would happen if you did not get it, and you didn't and you are all fine right?

[PaisleyStar]

I do not envy your decision either. We've also talked about traveling to/living in places where it would be hard enough to have clean food and water, never mind vitamins, supplements, homeopathics, and quality medical care. In those cases I would at least have to THINK about vaxing for some of the diseases. Honestly, are you really into going, or were you planning to go just bc of your DH? If the latter, I would maybe look in to staying back with your baby. 13 mo, right? That's really young (IMO) to be thinking about it for a three month trip. Of course, if it was leave the baby home with a relative OR vax, I would prob choose the vaxing..so many factors! Hugs, mama. Make a decision based on the info you have, not on fear...

[HarperRose]

Originally Posted by bluedaisy

anyway, my question is, if you decided not to vax but then ended up getting one or more vaxes for whatever reason, how did you feel about it?

or, if you decided not to vax, is there any situation that would make you consider vaxing and how would you handle it?

Well, our situation is this:

Ds1 (age 9) was vaxed on schedule up to 9 months old. At 6 months he reacted. He stopped breathing. I was on him like a hawk and had him awake and breathing again right away. I didn't call 911 because I got him breathing before his lips had even turned blue. I didn't tell his doc because I was TERRIFIED I wouldn't be believed. (I was a young, first time mom. Inexperience and insecurity had an influence.)

Dd (age 8) was not vaxed at all.

Ds2 (age 2) is still unvaxed.

Last month we moved from a state with 3 exemptions to a state with 1 (medical only). Acquiring that medical exemption takes an act of congress. Almost literally. Ds1 and dd need to be in school, both for their own peace of mind and mine. They need the structure.

We have had them vaccinated. Fortunately, since we did not vax dd and waited so long since ds1's last shots, they only needed a few to "catch up."

Ds2, 2 yrs old, will not receive any vaccinations until he is of school age. He'll "require" fewer vaccinations that way.

It was a VERY difficult decision for us and not one we came to lightly. Only YOU can decide what's best for your family. For us, we went ahead with the vaccines because the benefits to my childrens' mental state outweighed the risks. But please make no mistake: It was NOT a decision I was happy with. I really would be so happy to say, "My kids are vax free!" but I can't. They have neurological and intellectual needs that I can't meet at home. Because of that, they needed to be subjected to the toxins in vaccines because we live in a state with only Medical Exemptions.

[Addy's Mom]

My husband is from North Africa and we visit frequently with our son. The first time we went was when DC was 16 months old. Our frequent contact with Africa was the primary reason I decided to get my son vaccinated.

After having visited with a child, however, I don't think vaccines are completely necessary, depending on the types of accommodations where you are staying. I stayed primarily in very Westernized parts of a major city which had living conditions similar to the US. Food and water was clean, etc. and I researched hospitals before I went to know where I'd take my son if anything happened.

I'm not familiar with Nairobi in particular, but I would think taking general travel precautions should be good enough. Prevent infection with strict hygiene and food preparation standards.

A bigger concern, in my opinion, is the current crime situation in Nairobi and the resulting U.S. travel advisory against Americans traveling to Kenya in general. There's both a very high incidence of regular street crime as well as crime targeted against Americans (like kidnapping, etc.). That is of course a very personal decision to make, but I think I'd be more inclined to stay home for 3 months with the baby. Your husband blends in with accent, etc.; I don't know if you do or not.

[caned & able]

Yellow fever is the only REQUIRED vaccine AFAIK for any travel to Africa.

Suggestion would be to bulk up on sodium ascorbate and vitamin A and D before any course of vaccination and be healthy at the time...check with www.who.int before making any decisions; there are plenty of recommendations, but it is the requirments you need to comply with...check and see...maybe only you and your husband need the vaxes.

I believe Mothering Mag had an article about this very thing a few issues back.

[writteninkursive]

Originally Posted by HarperRose

Well, our situation is this:

Ds1 (age 9) was vaxed on schedule up to 9 months old. At 6 months he reacted. He stopped breathing. I was on him like a hawk and had him awake and breathing again right away. I didn't call 911 because I got him breathing before his lips had even turned blue. I didn't tell his doc because I was TERRIFIED I wouldn't be believed. (I was a young, first time mom. Inexperience and insecurity had an influence.)

Dd (age 8) was not vaxed at all.

Ds2 (age 2) is still unvaxed.

Last month we moved from a state with 3 exemptions to a state with 1 (medical only). Acquiring that medical exemption takes an act of congress. Almost literally. Ds1 and dd need to be in school, both for their own peace of mind and mine. They need the structure.

We have had them vaccinated. Fortunately, since we did not vax dd and waited so long since ds1's last shots, they only needed a few to "catch up."

Ds2, 2 yrs old, will not receive any vaccinations until he is of school age. He'll "require" fewer vaccinations that way.

It was a VERY difficult decision for us and not one we came to lightly. Only YOU can decide what's best for your family. For us, we went ahead with the vaccines because the benefits to my childrens' mental state outweighed the risks. But please make no mistake: It was NOT a decision I was happy with. I really would be so happy to say, "My kids are vax free!" but I can't. They have neurological and intellectual needs that I can't meet at home. Because of that, they needed to be subjected to the toxins in vaccines because we live in a state with only Medical Exemptions.

Even if your state requires medical exemptions, you can get those by going to any doctor who can write that exemption. Our holistic doctor writes vaccine exemptions for anyone who asks. If you can find a doctor like that, you don't need to vaccinate your kids simply because state law requires it. I think I would take that to court before I would just go along with it because state law says I should!

[alegna]

Originally Posted by writteninkursive

Even if your state requires medical exemptions, you can get those by going to any doctor who can write that exemption. Our holistic doctor writes vaccine exemptions for anyone who asks. If you can find a doctor like that, you don't need to vaccinate your kids simply because state law requires it. I think I would take that to court before I would just go along with it because state law says I should!

MS and WV do not give medical exemptions as easily as other states historically.

They have also been known to have other MDs overturn them.

-Angela

[bluedaisy]

Honestly, are you really into going, or were you planning to go just bc of your DH? If the latter, I would maybe look in to staying back with your baby. 13 mo, right?

My DH's entire family is in kenya and they've never met our daughter and are really excited about our visit. i lived in kenya for 3 years and also have lots of friends that i am really excited to see. it would be really hard for us to be away from dh for that long - my dd is sooo attached to him

After having visited with a child, however, I don't think vaccines are completely necessary, depending on the types of accommodations where you are staying. I stayed primarily in very Westernized parts of a major city which had living conditions similar to the US. Food and water was clean, etc. and I researched hospitals before I went to know where I'd take my son if anything happened.

Nairobi is a very Westernized city with some great hospitals, I'm not concerned about the quality of medical care. And the area where we will be staying is a good area, with clean water and excellent sanitation, etc. I lived in this compound for two years so I know exactly what our accomodations will look like.

My SIL lives in Nairobi has a 3 month old and hasn't vaxed him, which I was surprised to hear. So I am seriously considering bringing her without vaxing.

Yellow fever is the only REQUIRED vaccine AFAIK for any travel to Africa

i've heard this too, but DH and I have traveled in and out of kenya several times and have never been asked about it. there were 0 cases of yellowfever in kenya in 2008, so i'm not planning on getting this one for her. if i get asked about it, which is unlikely, i'll just say that she's had it.

A bigger concern, in my opinion, is the current crime situation in Nairobi and the resulting U.S. travel advisory against Americans traveling to Kenya in general. There's both a very high incidence of regular street crime as well as crime targeted against Americans (like kidnapping, etc.). That is of course a very personal decision to make, but I think I'd be more inclined to stay home for 3 months with the baby. Your husband blends in with accent, etc.; I don't know if you do or not.

yeah, crime is a big problem but those warnings were there during the years that I lived there - we'll be living in a pretty safe area and take normal precautions - no traveling at night, not going into certain parts of the city without DH, etc. i'm not too concerned about this.

to be honest, i am leaning towards not vaxing and just going, but i feel incredibly irresponsible for traveling with her internationally w/o vaxxing - maybe i shouldn't feel that way, i don't know.

[Addy's Mom]

Originally Posted by bluedaisy

yeah, crime is a big problem but those warnings were there during the years that I lived there - we'll be living in a pretty safe area and take normal precautions - no traveling at night, not going into certain parts of the city without DH, etc. i'm not too concerned about this.

to be honest, i am leaning towards not vaxing and just going, but i feel incredibly irresponsible for traveling with her internationally w/o vaxxing - maybe i shouldn't feel that way, i don't know.

Oh, that's great you've been and lived there several times. Forget what I said about the travel warnings then. I felt fearless about travel to developing nations before my son but feel more cautious with him. Which is why I vaxed in the first place. But like I said, after having actually taken him there, dealing with the logistics of what food to give him, where to get milk and water, etc., it was easier than I had thought. So looking back vaxing probably wasn't necessary. Things like bilharzia are much more common and dangerous, and there's no vax for that. It's just a matter of living differently and being cautious. I think that's great they get to meet their granddaughter!

[HarperRose]

Originally Posted by writteninkursive

Even if your state requires medical exemptions, you can get those by going to any doctor who can write that exemption. Our holistic doctor writes vaccine exemptions for anyone who asks. If you can find a doctor like that, you don't need to vaccinate your kids simply because state law requires it. I think I would take that to court before I would just go along with it because state law says I should!

Well, when you find a doc who will, please let me know. And let me know when you find a holistic doctor in West Virginia. I've already researched and contacted numerous docs. Not one would sign an exemption for me even though they listened to my reasons for NOT vaccinating.

You feel free to take it to court all you want. I do not have the time, the money, the patience, or the ability to deal with it. My children have special needs and learning disorders that I can not adequately assist them with when home schooling.

No snark intended toward you at all. I just want you to understand that I didn't just arbitrarily make a decision because "the state says so."

[HarperRose]

Originally Posted by alegna

MS and WV do not give medical exemptions as easily as other states historically.

They have also been known to have other MDs overturn them.

-Angela

I'm in WV. Thanks, Angela.

I used to live in Texas. It was great for the vax issue. I still have affidavits for my kids exemptions for TX.

[HarperRose]

Originally Posted by bluedaisy

My DH's entire family is in kenya and they've never met our daughter and are really excited about our visit. i lived in kenya for 3 years and also have lots of friends that i am really excited to see. it would be really hard for us to be away from dh for that long - my dd is sooo attached to him

That is so neat. I hope the trip goes well for you guys!

to be honest, i am leaning towards not vaxing and just going, but i feel incredibly irresponsible for traveling with her internationally w/o vaxxing - maybe i shouldn't feel that way, i don't know.

Does anyone require any documentation of vaccines? I would probably lean toward not vaxing if nobody asks for proof.

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by writteninkursive

Even if your state requires medical exemptions, you can get those by going to any doctor who can write that exemption. Our holistic doctor writes vaccine exemptions for anyone who asks. If you can find a doctor like that, you don't need to vaccinate your kids simply because state law requires it. I think I would take that to court before I would just go along with it because state law says I should!

Originally Posted by alegna

MS and WV do not give medical exemptions as easily as other states historically.

They have also been known to have other MDs overturn them.

-Angela

It would probably be easier and cheaper to move to another state than to take it to court.

[Deborah]

I think some of the vaccine critical organizations are hoping, eventually, to take a case to court in one or the other of those states. It is clearly a denial of religious freedom...

However, I can well understand not wanting to be the family who goes through the fire for the abstract principle.

[HarperRose]

Originally Posted by Emmeline II

It would probably be easier and cheaper to move to another state than to take it to court.

You're probably very right.

We just moved to WV, knowing we'd face this vax issue, but my dad is in poor health and we need to be nearby. It wasn't an easy decision.

[WuWei]

There are many diseases for which there is no vaccine. Vaccination taxes the immune system so that it is more easily overwhelmed by the *other* diseases which are more commonly associated with traveling, such as malaria, flu, viruses, etc.

Dh traveled to India without vaccinations. We examined each vaccine, the duration before "benefit", and frequency of the vaccines in order to even have the claimed benefit. For instance, the Hep A was the most likely risk. But, he could get the immunoglobulin IF he contracted it. Same with Tetanus. Hep B required a series of injections to be "effective" and it was only 6 weeks before traveling. The other diseases common to the area didn't have vaccines.

We wanted his immune system to be strong for traveling, not stressed by vaccinations.


Pat