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Charting to Avoid/Fertility Awareness, JAN 2010 - Page 8

post #141 of 610
Quote:
Originally Posted by annie2186 View Post
Kimmie - I will be sending you lots and LOTS of not pregnant vibes!!! good luck........

I also was wondering about the failure rates of the differnt birth control. Like withdrawal/condoms. If your partner either pulls out in time and/or the condom never broke and was always........put on! wouldn't that put you in the 2% or whatever?

For example, the pill has a 99.9 percent effective rate...............IF you take it on time and always take it.......

Just wondering how that works. I can understand that sometimes the condom breaks or slips and/or sometimes the guy just doesn't get out in time - but I thought that would put you in the "typical use" which "really means" messed up!

Hope that makes sense!
Thank you! Yes, that's exactly what I was trying to ask.

I'm sorry your dd has croup!! My dd had that at about 9 months old and it was awful. None of the others have had it. I hope she heals quickly!! Poor thing.
post #142 of 610
Thanks for the answer about AF. I have another question. This is my first cycle charting and I am concerned about confusing semen and CM. Any tips on this?
post #143 of 610
Annie, I totally agree with you about birth control failure rates... I think each time you use a condom it has its own failure rate, you know? Sometimes you do it more properly... or it's the wrong time in your cycle anyway. It's more complicated than just a number I think.

I believe a study came out about withdrawl recently and it had an amazingly high rate of effectiveness. I was shocked. Ok, I found it, if you google withdrawl method it will come up. Withdrawl had a 4% failure rate with perfect use, condoms 2%. Typical use was 18 and 17%. I think "precum" actually has no sperm in it under most conditions. Also totally the opposite of what we were taught in sex ed.

Afm, I think I'm going to test tomorrow am... it's very early but there is a dollar tree a mile from my house so I feel like I might as well get started. The suspense is killing us. I'm imagining symptoms of course, I am dead tired, crying over everything, and my bbs are a full cup size bigger than normal. Df is already worrying about money.
post #144 of 610
Pogo, that is a little shorter than average.

Springmama, I think when I read TCOYF it said that you can do kegels to get the semen to come out right away and not interfere. I confused them (even after reading this) until we started using condoms and I realized what was going on.
post #145 of 610
I think that I am more nervous than I need to be about NFP. We have been using FAM with condoms and w/d for over a year but now that I am getting "technical" with temping and charting etc. I feel a bit overwhelmed with temping, and cm and cervical position and such!

On the other hand I am excited to be paying closer attention to my fertility and I'm hooked on Fertility Friend. Gotta love the free VIP trial!
post #146 of 610
Springmama - how I deal with semen is this;

before you ovulate you never DTD two days in a row. The day after DTD you wait for the semen to clear up. The NEXT day you see if you are dry or back to your typical BIP (basic infertile pattern, aka, dry for you).

Hope that makes sense!

Thanks Kimmie - DD1 is on the mend but now DD2 sounds like she is catching it it seems like it won't be as bad though...........hopefully!
post #147 of 610
Kimmie ~ I don't have any more specific info than the comparison between the typical user failure rate and method failure rate. Method failure is when the method fails with perfect use. I assume that typical user failure is when people do not follow all the rules perfectly. According to TCOYF (copyright 2002) method failure for w/d is 4% and user failure is 19%. I always assume user failure when someone gets pg on here because we all know what we're doing. I would be surprised with a method failure but it can happen.

My dh and I use w/d, but (in case you haven't figured it out) I am very open to getting pg so I like the higher failure rate. I got pg once using w/d but that was obvious user failure. My dh didn't even attempt to w/d. The 2nd time I got pg I'm not sure if he was thinking of pulling-out or not. We hadn't discussed it since my previous pg and m/c but I think he had decided he wasn't that concerned with preventing anymore. I don't know that I would feel comfortable using it if I absolutely did not want to be pg. I'd probably go with abstinence in that case.

Comparison of semen and EWCF according to TCOYF:

"Semen sometimes appears as a rubbery whitish strand or slippery foam. It tends to be thinner, breaks easily, and dries on your fingers quicker. By contrast, eggwhite quality cervical fluid tends to be clear, shimmering, and stretchy."

AFM, weren't some of you commenting on having unusually low temps for no particular reason? I only have 2 temps but they are both low for me. The first one taken at my usual temp time was 96.9. I can't recall ever having a temp in the 96 range before. This morning my temp was 97.3, which is ok for pre-O except that it was taken an hour later than usual. Adjusted, it would be 97.1, which is also low for me. It's warm enough in my house and I've been sleeping with long pjs and two blankets, not to mention the two little bodies next to me keeping me very warm.
post #148 of 610
Thanks for the info! It seems like the chances are very slim. *whew* No AF yet, but I can feel her coming. http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/2be681

MarineWife- Yes my temps have been rather low lately, as well as a few others here. I'm nursing though so I don't know if that has anything to do with it!
post #149 of 610
Thread Starter 
My temps the past two days have been 96.8. Seems like a lot of us are having somewhat odd cycles and temps lately. I wonder if the stress of Christmas is still affecting our bodies?

AFM: CD 26, I have now had a week straight of W or EW, and I'm getting quite tired of waiting for O!
post #150 of 610
annie ~ I got pg with ds3 while nursing ds2. It might be the timing. I had my 1st known m/c when ds2 was almost 2, still nursing. I got pg again when he was about 2 1/2 and m/ced again. DS2 was almost 3 and still nursing when I got pg with ds2 but I had to wean ds2 before 12w because it hurt so much. DS3 was almost 2 when I got pg back in May and m/ced in July. With this most recent m/c, ds3 is 2 1/2 and still nursing. I've got 6 months to either wean ds3 or, hopefully, he'll be at the age, 3, where the nursing won't affect a pg (if that's what it is). Maybe my body is just really good at following the evolutionary path of reproduction where the female body is built to have children only every 4 years. I'm bummed that I still can't do the detox. I think that would help me on so many levels, not just with my cycles. That gives me a bit more motivation to wean ds3 before June.

Kimmie ~ I'm nursing, too, although my ds does not nurse throughout the night. He does usually nurse once in the early am between 4 and 6.

I just looked back at previous charts and I guess the 97.1 temp isn't that low for me. I think the thing that threw me is that I usually have higher temps at the beginning of my cycle that drop to the low 97s about a week before O. I'm only on cd9 and my average O is around cd23 so it's early for my temps to drop for O. I have no CF whatsoever yet, too, dry, dry, dry. Although, I did have the streaked, rectangular shaped spot of dry CF on my underwear yesterday, felt kind of gooey cold and I saw drops of white stuff go into the toilet when I went (serious TMI ). Should I mark that as sticky even though I felt nothing and saw nothing on the tissue when I wiped?
post #151 of 610
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarineWife View Post
annie ~ I got pg with ds3 while nursing ds2. It might be the timing. I had my 1st known m/c when ds2 was almost 2, still nursing. I got pg again when he was about 2 1/2 and m/ced again. DS2 was almost 3 and still nursing when I got pg with ds2 but I had to wean ds2 before 12w because it hurt so much. DS3 was almost 2 when I got pg back in May and m/ced in July. With this most recent m/c, ds3 is 2 1/2 and still nursing. I've got 6 months to either wean ds3 or, hopefully, he'll be at the age, 3, where the nursing won't affect a pg (if that's what it is). Maybe my body is just really good at following the evolutionary path of reproduction where the female body is built to have children only every 4 years. I'm bummed that I still can't do the detox. I think that would help me on so many levels, not just with my cycles. That gives me a bit more motivation to wean ds3 before June.

Kimmie ~ I'm nursing, too, although my ds does not nurse throughout the night. He does usually nurse once in the early am between 4 and 6.

I just looked back at previous charts and I guess the 97.1 temp isn't that low for me. I think the thing that threw me is that I usually have higher temps at the beginning of my cycle that drop to the low 97s about a week before O. I'm only on cd9 and my average O is around cd23 so it's early for my temps to drop for O. I have no CF whatsoever yet, too, dry, dry, dry. Although, I did have the streaked, rectangular shaped spot of dry CF on my underwear yesterday, felt kind of gooey cold and I saw drops of white stuff go into the toilet when I went (serious TMI ). Should I mark that as sticky even though I felt nothing and saw nothing on the tissue when I wiped?
I'm interested in any information you have on that! I always wondered what was "best" for the body and how far apart was best. I seem to get my Af's back so quickly even with crazy nursing and it would seem that body would like to have babies every year and a half. Drives me nuts.

I think that I would record that as sticky just in case. It sounds like there was some type of CF there even though you didn't really feel anything.
post #152 of 610
MW, I agree, mark it as sticky.

Kimmie, I have read that it is best for the woman's body to get pregnant again sometime in the range of 18 months to 5 years after the last baby is born. Apparently getting pregnant before 18 months or after 5 years increases the chances of things going wrong with the pregnancy and the mom's health in general. No links or anything to back that up, that is just what I have read...somewhere...

That's a pretty big range but it makes sense to me. I might even say waiting two-three years between the birth and the next conception would be better, especially evolutionarily speaking, thinking of back when bfing was REALLY important and everyone was bfed until 3 yo if at all possible...yk?

AFM, nothing happening. No O. Here's my chart.
post #153 of 610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimmiepie View Post
I'm interested in any information you have on that! I always wondered what was "best" for the body and how far apart was best. I seem to get my Af's back so quickly even with crazy nursing and it would seem that body would like to have babies every year and a half. Drives me nuts.
I heard about the 4 year separation between children while watching a 20/20 or 48 Hours TV show on the top 10 sexual myths. It was the one about the 7 year itch. An anthropologist said that there is an evolutionary basis for the wandering eye syndrome of long-term relationships but rather than being 7 years is really only 4. The reason being that the human female body is designed to give birth about every 4 years. Mating with a different person every 4 years would optimize genetic diversity and, therefore, optimize offspring and species survival.

I have also read that for the health of mom and baby it's best to space children between about 2 and 5 years apart for the reasons BFS gave. I can't imagine having another baby within 2 years of having a previous one. That seems like it would be exhausting to me. My 2nd and 3rd children are 3 1/2 years apart and even that was/is difficult for me. My then 3 1/2yo was still very needy of my attention and help while the baby obviously needed me for everything. Personally, I would not want to have children closer than 3 years apart.

I do think, though, that it probably varies by individual. I'm sure there are many people who are more capable of taking care of several young children at the same time than I am. I think that if the woman is following eco breastfeeding and gets her fertility back sooner, that probably means that her body is physically ready for another pregnancy. It probably varies with age to some extent, too. Pregnancy is generally much easier in a woman's 20s than in her 30s or 40s. I can attest to that!

That's why I wonder about an evolutionary basis for my m/cs. Maybe my fertility begins to return during the 2nd year after giving birth but my body is not optimally ready for another pregnancy until the 3rd year. I can certainly tell a difference in my energy and mood after the 2nd year.

Ok, marking CF as sticky for yesterday (not that it matters since dh isn't here). I've been contemplating some way to get dh back here or for me to go there in February/March when I'm predicted to O again.
post #154 of 610
hi, ladies. sorry i haven't returned to this thread, so i just saw this question from Kimmie (and someone else wondering as well):
Quote:
How do you know that you drop more than one egg? That's really cool!! I'm not sure how you could use FAM to prevent/conceive twins as I didn't even know there was a way to tell if you drop more than one egg. Please do tell us how.
I didnt know i drop more than one egg until i conceived twins in 2007 (they were lost at 16 weeks). The docs seemed totally sure they were dizygotic (2 eggs) twins. And like i said, i can clearly feel when i O, and sometimes i will feel it again a day or two later- or early in the morning and again later at night.
I really don't know how i would use charting to conceive or avoid conceiving twins. I guess i have been thinking that if i keep a chart i might notice a pattern- like i drop 2 eggs every 3rd month or something?? or, if i discover by charting that it never happens 2 months in a row, and i wanted to avoid twins, i could ttc the month AFTER I double O. Or something, not sure, just thinking that charting will give me a clearer picture and more information and wondering if it might be useful in this regard.
Anyway, I hope everyone has an awesome day today!
post #155 of 610
My sample size of 1 seems to indicate that my body is geared to separate pregnancies by a couple of years. I did not practice ecological bfing with DS in that we gave him a pacifier starting around 6 weeks. I did nurse on demand and cosleep though. Then I went back to work at 4 1/2 months. I continued nursing on demand and cosleeping at home and pumping 3-4 times / day at work. We started him on solids at 6 mo but I kept pumping and supplying milk for daycare. Then around 13 months I started tapering off pumping and moving him towards almond milk. My first pp af was 1 month after I stopped pumping. It kind of reassures me that next time around I can use LAM for the first several months and then FAM / barrier method after that.
post #156 of 610
so my AF is done and my CM is almost non-existent.

I am looking forward to discussing my BC options with my doctor next week. Still not sure what i want or how long i want to wait to TTC. i keep see-sawing back and forth from wanting one this year, to not at least for a few years.
post #157 of 610
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarineWife View Post

AFM, weren't some of you commenting on having unusually low temps for no particular reason? I only have 2 temps but they are both low for me. The first one taken at my usual temp time was 96.9. I can't recall ever having a temp in the 96 range before. This morning my temp was 97.3, which is ok for pre-O except that it was taken an hour later than usual. Adjusted, it would be 97.1, which is also low for me. It's warm enough in my house and I've been sleeping with long pjs and two blankets, not to mention the two little bodies next to me keeping me very warm.
Yup, lower than normal temps. Mine jumped today though. I'm leaving my chart with O day on CD 15 (based on CM, cramps, etc..) however, I think I'm going to go with a back-up O day of CD 20. So.. I should be expecting a period either this upcoming Wednesday or next Monday.

Makes for an interesting wait but I think partially I will just feel disappointed if I didn't O on CD 15 as I was certain that the pain I felt must be O pain.

On a side note, I feel yucky the past couple of days. My nose is stuffy, I've got heartburn, sore boobs. On the positive side, no acne! Weird cycle.

ETA: TMI :Also, my nipples are leaking. I've not nursed in... 3.5 years, though I did experience some leaking when I was coming off of birth control a year ago.
post #158 of 610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eresh View Post
My sample size of 1 seems to indicate that my body is geared to separate pregnancies by a couple of years. I did not practice ecological bfing with DS in that we gave him a pacifier starting around 6 weeks. I did nurse on demand and cosleep though. Then I went back to work at 4 1/2 months. I continued nursing on demand and cosleeping at home and pumping 3-4 times / day at work. We started him on solids at 6 mo but I kept pumping and supplying milk for daycare. Then around 13 months I started tapering off pumping and moving him towards almond milk. My first pp af was 1 month after I stopped pumping. It kind of reassures me that next time around I can use LAM for the first several months and then FAM / barrier method after that.
That's very interesting and makes sense. I'd always heard it was at least two years between pregnancies as well. See, for some reason even though ds3 has NEVER had a pacifier, bottle, and will barely even touch a solid food every now and then, still nurses at least 5 times throughout the night and every couple of hours during the day (Yes, I am tired!)...I still got AF at 9 months. I have a hard time seeing that my body would be ready for another pregnancy. I am not physically healthy right now.

DH and I have talked about birth control options but we both hate the hormonal ones, I hate condoms with a passion (they hurt me) and he's religiously opposed to surgical options. So I don't really know what all is left besides w/d.
The thing that drives me nutso about dh and FAM is that he uses w/d throughout the WHOLE cycle...even well after ovulation. I've told him a billion times that it's impossible for me to get pregnant 3/4 days after O and onward but he won't have it. I told him we might as well not even chart then and just use w/d the whole time...what's the point of me wasting me time? I continue to do it though in case there is an "oops" and I like to know if my cycles are normal or if there is anything I need to look out for. It's still frustrating with dh though.
post #159 of 610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimmiepie View Post
We watched "Cloudy with a chance of meatballs" tonight and all of that food made me feel sick.
Kim: you probably noticed me FREAKING out last month from nausea symptoms, but I think it was a flu -- the kids are both down with the Martian Death Flu since New Years. I think something is going around. . .

BFS: Weird cycle for sure! Good luck sorting all that out

AFM: Nothing doing, a week til possible
post #160 of 610
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaraAvis View Post
Kim: you probably noticed me FREAKING out last month from nausea symptoms, but I think it was a flu -- the kids are both down with the Martian Death Flu since New Years. I think something is going around. . .

BFS: Weird cycle for sure! Good luck sorting all that out

AFM: Nothing doing, a week til possible
I'm sorry I must have missed that! I came in very late in the last thread.
This isn't an illness though. It's just plain ole food aversion. I can tell the difference because I'm emetaphobic and I have stomach virus symptoms etched into my mind from the smallest detail. This isn't it.

I hope your kids get to feeling better soon though!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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