Breast Crawl - Page 2

[JorgieGirl]

But how does it benefit mother or baby by just having baby lie on mom when she could be cradling him immediately? We aren't set up like other species in the animals kingdom. We have hands and arms that are meant to hold our babies for protection. We don't have fur they can cling to while we swing in the trees and they don't have legs they can run on within 5 minutes of birth. We survive by holding our young.

Maybe it's not torture and maybe the little babe doesn't seem to be upset, but it doesn't know any better and coming from a tight, confined, warm, protective space to a bright, loud, scary new world I can't see how it would have any benefits to allow the babe to just lie on mom and search for his/her food.

Babe needs to know right away that mom is still going to do the same things on the outside that she did for him/her on the inside. And that, to me, means clinging with the warmth of an embrace asap. Forcing nursing isn't necessary but should be offered.

Breast crawling just seems like a novelty that should only be used if necessary.

[Pinoikoi]

Originally Posted by JorgieGirl

But how does it benefit mother or baby by just having baby lie on mom when she could be cradling him immediately?

Perhaps it is because the child has decided/made effort to nurse for comfort rather than being forced to nurse. My second child was forced to nurse and he only latched properly once. I ended up pumping for him for 7 months.

My last ds was the one that found the breast on his own moments after birth.. he nursed for 2 years. But again, we weren't "laying" there.. and he was in my arms.

I see a difference in my own experience.

Originally Posted by JorgieGirl

Breast crawling just seems like a novelty that should only be used if necessary.

"Novelty" makes it sound like this is a new thing.. pretty sure that this has been around for a long, long time. I mean, it seems instinctual.. that can't be new.

[earthnut]

It seemed to me like the mother WAS cradling the baby. If she had been at more of an incline, she may have been able to hold the baby even more without interfering with the baby finding the breast. I fail to see how holding the baby and doing the breast crawl are exclusive.

There may not be any long term benefit to letting the baby find the nipple on their own versus latching them on, but then the same could be said for a lot of other procedures: clamping immediately, epidurals, etc. However, it may have short-term benefits: better latch, mainly. I don't see any harm in latching them on if there are concerns, however I also don't see any harm in letting the baby root around themselves.

[GreenGranolaMama]

Originally Posted by HappyMommy2

If you absolutely must try it, perhaps you could bring her to your breast after just a couple minutes of torture.

Just my humble opinion.

I would totally not go as far as to call this torture. If that was my honest opinion, I would probably keep it to myself before I would call a new mother looking for information torturous. I think the OP should do what she feels is natural and right in the moment.

I agree with the OP that it seems like a no pressure, calm way to introduce the baby to his/her environment. If it works out, it works out and if it doesn't, it doesn't, I think flexibility and adaptability are key.

The video scene was defiantly more chill than the delivery room after my intervention free vaginal hospital birth.... there were a number of people in the room (nurses, interns, peds, OB...) and the nurse was trying to help my (screaming) baby nurse by shoving my breast in his (screaming) face.

[Spirit Dancer]

I did it with my dd and after about 15 min she latched on perfectly. I was much more upright and was holding her and cradling her. Some babies are not ready to latch on ASAP after birth and I think letting them do it on their own in their own time is much better the trying to shove the boob in their mouth. Shoved the boob in my son's mouth and had a terrible time nursing the first few months. Let my dd snuggle and latch on her own and had NO problems with bfing at all. I believe the first time the bfed makes a big impression on the babe that hays the groundwork for future nursing. It is also important for mom to be calm, relaxed and comfy during the process too. My dd was NOT stressed out by the crawl at all.
PS there are better videos about this out there.

[arianascrunchymama]

I love that video just because you can see how all of a newborns reflexes work together to get it to the breast. rooting, stepping/crawling, and sucking reflex all come together in perfect harmony. That being said, I do wish the mother was able to sit up to see and touch her baby. There is such a thing as baby led mother encouraged latching that still lets the baby initiate.

DD was a medicated hospital birth and we did skin on skin for the first 45 minutes or so undisturbed. She was rooting a bit and I was aching to nurse her for the first time so I cradled her near my breast and she started to lick and explore it. The pediatric nurse who was hovering waiting to weigh/measure her said "you're doing it wrong" and grabbed my breast with one hand and the back of DD's head with the other. She jiggled us both, tickling her lips with my nipple before literally SHOVING it in her mouth. DD was alert and content after the one wail she let out immediately after birth but she started wailing as soon as the nurse started trying to help. I remember inside I was screaming "STOP! This doesn't feel right!" but somehow the connection between my brain and my mouth was severed and I just sat there watching like it wasn't my baby or my body. She didn't latch on then- she actually just screamed and turned her head away the few times my breast was stuffed in her mouth. She latched on once it was just myself, my husband and her in our post pardum room and is 16 months old and still going strong.

We're planning and home water birth for baby # 2 and I do plan on cuddling and holding him/her close but also want to let the baby take the lead with our first breastfeed.

[LeighB]

I held my baby on my chest and she wiggled down to nurse when she was ready...maybe 15 minutes later? It was a really great experience.

[columbusmomma]

I was more upright too and DD did find breast herself and immediately latched on. Sweet memories

[earthnut]

Originally Posted by Spirit Dancer

PS there are better videos about this out there.

Can you point me to them? I'd love to see better ones, for I am put off as well by some of the details of this video. Thanks!

[MsBlack]

I've seen videos like this and in some ways they're pretty cool--but yeah, it does seem fairly controlled, contrived and unnatural for a mom to lay flat on her back and have a doctor manage the events!

Yes, my arms are for cuddling my babies once they are born! NO way anyone would stop me from doing that--touching, talking, exploring.

And I do agree it seems to work best for moms and babies and breastfeeding, if they are given space to work it out for themselves. A lot of babies don't want to latch on right away, though most of them, if held in mom's arms near the breasts (a pretty spontaneously-chosen position for most moms), in time the baby encounters the nipples--to grab with little fingers, lick, nuzzle (all of which is usually plenty to stimulate after birth contrax to help bring placenta). And if no one is interfering, moms generally figure it out when the baby starts to show signs of wanting to nurse. With a first time mom, if I see the signs and she doesn't seem to connect the dots, I might mention that those are some signs that baby might want to nurse and perhaps suggest putting baby in a better position to suck (if applicable)--but then stay out of the way unless mom asks for assistance.

No need for anyone to shove a nipple in anyone's mouth--no need for anyone else's hands to be on the breast besides mama. Even if a mom asks for help, I'll start by making suggestions rather than grabbing, and won't touch her without asking permission first. I've seen how the nurses interfere with first nursing so horribly in the hospital and it makes me shudder. I watched a nurse try to do this with a client of mine who had just had her 4th baby, had breastfed all the others successfully. This mama was not very assertive but it was plain to see that she was really put off by the nurse hovering so near, grabbing her breast, all that. I watched for a minute, then said "You breastfed the others, right mama?" She said yes. So I said "I bet you feel like you could work this out with baby, eh?" She said yes again, and the nurse took a hint and left.

It was so disrespectful--the nurse never asked this mama if she wanted help, never asked if she could touch mama or baby, just jumped in. Yuck! Plus of course, I don't see as that many babies are going to like the way the breast is shoved into their mouths!

Anyway--I didn't like the way the video has other people managing events, but I do think it's a great idea to step back and let moms hold their baby as they please, and stay out of the way while moms and babies work out the early hour of first breastfeeding.

[MegBoz]

Well, I thought it was beneficial to:

1. Get them nursing ASAP to help the uterus clamp down & reduce risk of PPH
2. HELP them latch on to ensure a deep latch (as my doula said, "Don't let him control his head! You control his head & latch him on.")
3. Keep them WARM! with a blanket over mama + babe.

Hm, I was taught you MUST bring together baby's head & mama's breast. It never occurred to me that baby could figure it out himself. As a matter of fact, after my nipples cracked & I was in horrific pain 24/7, I became even MORE paranoid about ensuring a good latch & sitting perfectly still through the 6 hours of nursing I did daily lest the latch "slip" (I still remember the muscle aches & neck pain.)

Thankfully, at least I never had supply problems on top of it all. But I did have horrible, terrible lactation consultants.

[earthnut]

It's interesting how people interpret the video differently. To me, the process is very UNmanaged. After the baby is laid on the mother, the doctor and the other people are not doing anything to help or interfere with the mother and baby. The FAQ explains that it was a demonstration and that the mother agreed ahead of time about the people in the room; that is not a normal occurrence nor part of the process. We can't hear what people are talking about nor see where the mother is looking, but I don't get the impression that anyone is telling the mother what to do; the FAQ says the crowd is there to observe.

The mother is holding the baby the entire time. I agree I don't like the prone position, and that that gets in the way of a true cuddle, but it also seems obvious to me that lying prone is not an integral part of the process; the basic point is that the baby can latch on themselves with no assistance. I assume there are no blankets because it's India and hot. The baby and mother don't seem cold.

To me, all those things are extraneous details of this particular video, not a part of the actual process of the breast crawl. Because the video seems a bit cold (to Western eyes at least), I've been searching for a different video of a spontaneous first latch, but I haven't been able to find one! If anyone has a link, help me out!

[MegBoz]

Originally Posted by earthnut

I agree I don't like the prone position, and that that gets in the way of a true cuddle,

Just FYI, she's in the supine position. Prone is laying on your tummy. A good way to remember it is that "laying supine = laying on your spine." (Little rhyme there! )

[Blueone]

Originally Posted by MegBoz

Well, I thought it was beneficial to:

1. Get them nursing ASAP to help the uterus clamp down & reduce risk of PPH
2. HELP them latch on to ensure a deep latch (as my doula said, "Don't let him control his head! You control his head & latch him on.")
3. Keep them WARM! with a blanket over mama + babe.

Hm, I was taught you MUST bring together baby's head & mama's breast. It never occurred to me that baby could figure it out himself. As a matter of fact, after my nipples cracked & I was in horrific pain 24/7, I became even MORE paranoid about ensuring a good latch & sitting perfectly still through the 6 hours of nursing I did daily lest the latch "slip" (I still remember the muscle aches & neck pain.)

Thankfully, at least I never had supply problems on top of it all. But I did have horrible, terrible lactation consultants.

My son HATED being guided in any way. If I helped or someone else helped he'd scream and scream and scream, finally latch on himself, and fall asleep. That nursing relationship with him never got off at all. Eventually we formula fed for so many more reasons, especially since he never had a very wet diaper even after 6 days.

I'll be sure to try this out with the next baby though.

[ericswifey27]

Originally Posted by HappyMommy2

I would just put the baby to the breast and let it breastfeed.

The nurse forced me to do this with DC1, and looking back I just feel horrible and mean. Poor thing, traumatized and now forced to crawl to eat when only an hour old...? If you just got ejected from a nice warm womb, wouldn't you just want to curl up on mommy's boobies??

For background, DC1 was an unnecessarean for failure to wait. I believed what the docs told me even when it went against what I knew. (pitocin, etc.)

Afterwards, in recovery, when they finally brought my baby, I kept saying, "shouldn't I just put him to the breast?" and the nurse kept saying "no". (Duh - why did I listen!!!!!) I think she was performing her own experiments or something, it was awful.

[We had an awful time nursing, I could only bear the horrid pain for 2 weeks, and ended up pumping for 3 months and then quitting. I believe all of these things contributed to that still-heart-wrenching failure]

After my HBAC with DC2, I nursed her right away in my own bed, and she is still nursing strong at 2.3 years. The midwife just stuck my boob in the baby's mouth.

Bottom line, it may be cool, and some babies may do it, but I would definitely not do it. And I would certainly not do it for 40 minutes! That just makes me sad, poor frustrated minutes-old baby being so close to warm boobies and yet unable to move to them. Good grief, nurse the baby!!!

If you absolutely must try it, perhaps you could bring her to your breast after just a couple minutes of torture.

Just my humble opinion.

I also had an unnecessary csection extreme difficulty nursing- the first 6 weeks were unbelievably painful. My nurse did not try to recreate the breast crawl... after the csection I could not hold my baby and she separated me from my son for a couple of hours and then tried to shove him on my breast, which did not help. I did not have any nursing problems with my son born at home. While it may be that he was also the second child and I was more of a pro, I'm confident most of the nursing problems if not all were due to our traumatic birth experience/pitocin/epidural etc.

So while the nurse should have just given you your baby, since it is very clear that is what you wanted, she may have been trying to recreate those first moments of birth to, in a way, reorient the baby. I read a study that talked about piglets getting disoriented, unable to suckle if they were taken away from the mother pig after birth. In order from them to begin suckling, they had to be placed back at the birth canal, and find their way to the mother pig's nipple. There are similar theories that this is what happens with human babies too, and the nurse may have read that study.

Oh and like you, I didn't do the breast crawl with my baby born at home either- I thought I might, but I wanted to hold him right away. I didn't put him on the breast though- I nuzzled him up to my chest and he did bob his head back and forth and find the nipple. Very special to see