How do I get him to understand that "I don't want to!" won't change things?

[minkajane]

DS will be 5 in a few days. I can't tell you how many times I hear "I don't want to!" Take today, for example. We let him stay up till midnight to watch the ball drop and he ended up being up till almost 1. He never sleeps late, so obviously he's tired. So I told him when he first got up that he was going to have a nap since he was up late. Then I told him half an hour and five minutes before naptime that he was going to have to nap. He said "OK" and was fine with it, as well as showing obvious signs of fatigue and crankiness. But then when it came time to actually go lay down, the fight began. Here's how the conversation went:

Me: It's time for your nap, DS.
DS: I don't want to.
Me: You're tired and I told you you were going to nap today. Let's go lay down.
DS: But I don't want to!
Me: Come on, let's go lay down.
DS: But I don't WANT to!

At this point, I walked DS to his bed, physically prying his fingers from door jambs and the bed frame and setting him in the bed.

DS: I don't WANT to take a nap!
Me: Too bad, DS, you have to even if you don't want to. You're tired. Lay down.
DS: But I DON'T WANT TO!

If you let him, this will continue for hours. He will shriek it over and over again if he's in trouble and doesn't want to go to time-out, if he doesn't want to go to bed, etc. If he gets in trouble and loses something, it turns into "But I WANT it!" over and over again. It gets to the point where I have to be really harsh with him and tell him that at this point it doesn't matter what he wants, I don't want to hear what he wants, THIS is what's going to happen. This has been going on for over a year and he still seems to think that saying he does or doesn't want something over and over again will get him his way. It doesn't help that every other weekend, it works for him when he's with his dad. XH lets DS run wild for two days and sends him back to us wired, exhausted, cranky, with a tummy full of junk food. But you'd think that spending the majority of his time with us would get it through his head that the whiny insistence thing doesn't work.

How would you deal with this?

[woodchick]

I guess I would probably let a 5yo have some say (and I do with our 3yo).

Maybe when he was showing signs of sleepiness you could have pointed out to him that he seemed tired. Then suggest a 'quiet time' for everyone in the house. Let him know that he doesn't have to sleep, but he does need to find a quiet activity to occupy him for the next hour- alone. Maybe help him find something.

I don't have any luck forcing my DD1 to do anything, especially sleep. There are days that I know she needs a nap, but strong arming her into bed doesn't do anything good for our relationship. I wonder, was the struggle worth dealing with whatever behavior would have come of him not napping?

He probably isn't making the connection between staying up late and being tired OR taking a nap and feeling less cranky.

For the long term, maybe try working on affirming his feelings "DS, I hear you saying you want X. It is hard when you want something you can't have. Let's do Y to take your mind off of it" or "I know you want to [something fun]! I wish I was [something obviously over the top fun]. Wouldn't that be great!! But for now we have to [something not so fun].

Good luck. It sounds so frustrating!

[woodchick]

I just re read your post and this stood out to me "the whiney insistance thing doesn't work."

Can you give him some strategies that WILL work? Maybe he realizes that whining does't work (or maybe it does after long enough) but he doesn't have anything in his tool box that works any better.

Last summer DD1 started the insistant 'mama mama mama, papa papa papa!' chant any time she wanted to talk to us. Usually while we were already in a conversation. I realized that she didn't know a polite way to get our attention. DH said to her, "DD, if you want to get our attention say 'excuse me, papa' and as soon as I finish what I'm saying I'll talk to you." As long as we hold up our end of the bargain, she has done really well with it.

So, for the nap thing, maybe you could decide on an acceptable alternative (say, reading in his room instead of a nap. Then say to him "DS, saying 'I don't want to' is not going to change my mind. If you say, 'Mom I'd rather read in my room' then we can make a deal" or something of the like.

I'm just brainstorming. I hope you can find something that works!

[Tjej]

Have you tried validating "That is TRUE, you Don't Want To" and still just doing what needs to be done? Saying more like "sometimes we do things we don't want to, because they are X (good for us, help others, etc. etc.). My DD is 3, but validating what she says helps it to stop being repeated.

Tjej

[minkajane]

Update

It's 3:05. I first told him to go lay down at 1:15. He's still freaking out. DH and I have tried everything we can think of just to calm him down and get him to lay still for five seconds. We ended up laying with him in our bed for half an hour with our eyes closed, but he spent the whole time wiggling and thrashing to stay awake (something he's done since he was little) even though I told him repeatedly that he was hurting me when he kept kicking me and elbowing me in the ribs. Every time his eyes would get heavy, he'd kick and flop his arms or try to sit up or whatever it took to stay awake for another 30 seconds.

I thought I was clear in the first post, but I guess I wasn't. This is NOT just about taking a nap. He does this with everything. I've given him ways to tell me things besides whining and insisting, I've explained to him (during calm times) that everybody has to do things they don't want to sometimes, I've offered rewards of fun things we can do after he's done with whatever it is he doesn't want to do, I explain why he needs to do something or stop doing something, I give plenty of warnings, etc. Nothing works. We go back to the refrain of "I don't want to!" or "But I want it!" I'm getting really sick of half the day being occupied by shrieking every other day.

[woodchick]

It sounds like you have reached the end of your rope! Hang in there!

Maybe for today you should let it go. Make peace with it.

It won't help today, but have you read "How to talk so your Kids will Listen..."? there may be some good strategies in there for you.

I can hear the frustration in your post that comes from having done things over and over and over. What I keep hearing you say, though, is 'I told'. From the example above (and I realize this is a larger issue) you say "I told him to take a nap." "I said 'you're tired'". He may be thinking "but I don't feel tired".

You spent over an hour being frustrated, getting kicked and elbowed...but what was it for? Did he sleep? What would have letting him skip the nap have hurt?

[ann_of_loxley]

Personally, I don't agree with forcing children to do anything (I am not talking about actual life and death situations here). Those types of situations, I personally feel, can often turn into a 'bully' type of situation. I am bigger, I said so, and I can make you type of situations. They are very conditional situations and many people here are striving for unconditonal parenting because of how that message is perceived by our children.

Now - I can totally understand wanting your child to do something that is really best for them ...like take a nap! lol But, I feel our children need to learn about their bodies, and sometimes they need to feel what fatigue is like (many times over) in order to understand why sleep is such a great thing (as on example here). If its not a life or death situation...then why? I always pose this question to myself in my head to see if and how I can answer it.

Why not try and validate his feelings? Validating a childs feelings has nothing to do with them 'getting what they want' or them 'winning' and you 'losing'. It simply has to do with connection and listening. I am not sensing much connection here and that could be where the 'problem' really is. Id be pretty whiny too if my husband started dictating to me when to go to bed, sent me into 'time-outs' when I made him unhappy and was pretty clear he didn't want to listen to me or what I want and need. If that was our relationship, there would be constant control battles between us everyday and things would seem not too happy in our household - I would feel nothing but conditional love. Some children can really struggle with that in very noticable ways. There is always a reason (not an excuse) behind a behaviour - if we can really listen and figure this out, then we can really start to connect with our children and help validate their feelings so they can feel worthy and listened to...and trusted! With that connection - you might be able to suggest a nap and have a child who thinks 'yeah thats actually a great idea!'...because they trust you and you listen.

Some people like reading - some people don't. I would highly recommend 'Raising Our Children, Raising Ourselves' by Naomi Aldort though. Her book was a life saver for me. Really opened my eyes and helped me to connect not only to my child but to the rest of the very important people in my life!

[Bea]

Originally Posted by minkajane

It's 3:05. I first told him to go lay down at 1:15. He's still freaking out. DH and I have tried everything we can think of just to calm him down and get him to lay still for five seconds. We ended up laying with him in our bed for half an hour with our eyes closed, but he spent the whole time wiggling and thrashing to stay awake (something he's done since he was little) even though I told him repeatedly that he was hurting me when he kept kicking me and elbowing me in the ribs. Every time his eyes would get heavy, he'd kick and flop his arms or try to sit up or whatever it took to stay awake for another 30 seconds.

I thought I was clear in the first post, but I guess I wasn't. This is NOT just about taking a nap. He does this with everything. I've given him ways to tell me things besides whining and insisting, I've explained to him (during calm times) that everybody has to do things they don't want to sometimes, I've offered rewards of fun things we can do after he's done with whatever it is he doesn't want to do, I explain why he needs to do something or stop doing something, I give plenty of warnings, etc. Nothing works. We go back to the refrain of "I don't want to!" or "But I want it!" I'm getting really sick of half the day being occupied by shrieking every other day.

This may not be a popular option on MDC but something my husband used to do with his daughter at that age with the "I don't want to" was say, "I didn't ask you what you wanted to do"...and repeat the instruction, "I said go and put your shoes on/ put your pyjamas on/brush your teeth etc".

Maybe it's dependant on the personality of the child, but not engaging her in what she did or didn't want to do in a situation where the request was going to be carried out because it had to be, worked.

[sewchris2642]

Originally Posted by Bea

This may not be a popular option on MDC but something my husband used to do with his daughter at that age with the "I don't want to" was say, "I didn't ask you what you wanted to do"...and repeat the instruction, "I said go and put your shoes on/ put your pyjamas on/brush your teeth etc".

Maybe it's dependant on the personality of the child, but not engaging her in what she did or didn't want to do in a situation where the request was going to be carried out because it had to be, worked.

To the OP: in this case, it's really your fault for letting your 5 yo stay up way past his usual bedtime. Staying up late is a guarantee of a melt down the next day. My best advice if it happens again in the future is to just suck it up the next day. Let him sleep in if he would, perhaps have down time together in the afternoon (read a book on the couch or lay down on your bed together) and put him down a little earlier the next night. And get back to the usual routine as quickly as possible.

[Tjej]

I think you need to disengage from the conversation then. He says it once, you validate and then tell him that you are not going to talk about it anymore (short and simple). Do what you need to do.

For the nap, though, there is no way to force someone to sleep. I find that if my DD doesn't want a nap but needs one, having her lay on her bed with some toys - she can play or sleep - for a period of time works well. Sometimes she passes out, sometimes she gets a little rest just being on her bed with her toys and that's that. And yes, sometimes she doesn't fall asleep and needs to and is still cranky. But that's life.

When you expect something to be done, you need to pick something you can make happen. It's not consensual living if you are calling the shots, but not all of us choose consensual living. You can't MAKE someone fall asleep. You can make them stay in bed, but the falling asleep part is not a "battle you can win", so I wouldn't even try.

If he's kicking you, then you have a right to be safe. You don't need to lay there and put up with that.

If this happens a lot it sounds to me like he is either 1)way overtired 2)in need of al ot more outdoors/physical play 3)needing a dietary evaluation 4)searching very hard for some boundaries (or a combo of the listed).

Tjej

[prothyraia]

Have you tried reflecting his feelings? i.e. "You really don't want to go to bed, you're not tired. You're angry that mommy is making you taking a nap. You're so angry that you're kicking the bed." The nap is still going to happen, but that's a given- you don't need to mention it, just reflect his feelings of frustration about it.

I feel like a ninny, but that sort of ridiculous narration of what they're doing/what I think they're feeling will *often* deescalate a situation. Sometimes explaining why things are a certain way just feels like you're not listening or you're invalidating their feelings.

[One_Girl]

Have you read The Explosive Child? It is a really wonderful book that may give you some insight into how your behavior is affecting him and what you can do to help him adjust. Basically the book talks about not meeting your child's absolute refusal to budge from their position with absolute refusal to budge from your position. It also talks about working with your child to find a compromise on little things and holding out on the big things. The author asks parents to think about whether the situation was worth a power struggle and hours of out of control behavior or whether another compromise could be found. In the nap situation for instance, you would offer other relaxing choices like a movie or books and a snuggle if it wasn't a situation that was worth the hours of struggle you had to deal with. He may be really emotional right now because he is coping with a divorce and a counselor who specializes in working with children as they cope with divorce may help him to cope better.

It is not uncommon for kids to act out after going to visit their non-custodial parent. If you know that the time after he comes back is rough then try to make the rest of the day or the next day a home day and spend time together to help him feel connected as he adjusts. If he is a child who really likes routine then it may help if you have a really set routine on the day he comes home to help him settle back in. Asking a child to do something new when they like routine and are exhausted and struggling to cope with something is just setting them up for a meltdown.

[Elizabeth2008]

I hear your frustration. But honestly, I think it's really frustrating for a child to have their feelings negated. At 5 year's old I think a child should be able to decide for themselves whether or not they're tired. If I didn't feel tired and someone kept telling me "you are tired" I would get pretty pissed. Likewise, I wouldn't like it if someone told me that they don't care what I want. I mean, if you don't care what he wants, why should he care what YOU want? (for him to take a nap)

For critical things (holding my hand when we cross the street, being in the car seat, etc.) I don't mind taking the "my way or the highway" approach with DS (who is 3). But for other things that have to do with HIS body, I try to let him make as many choices as possible so he knows that I value his feelings and respect him. I can't make him sleep, so why fight that battle? I try to reduce stimulation before nap time and create an environment conducive to sleep. And 90% of the time he naps. For the 10% of that time that he just doesn't want to, well, big whoop. I know you said napping isn't the only problem, but this applies to many other things as well. I don't insist that DS use the bathroom because *I* think he needs to pee. If he says he doesn't need to, fine. He may have the occasional accident, but then he is more likely to understand his own body and respond to it's cues. Same with wearing a jacket, same with finishing his dinner, etc. That doesn't mean you just give in to everything they want all the time. Everyone has boundaries they need to be comfortable with. For example, I don't want junk food in the house. So DS can whine all he wants at the grocery store, but I'm not going to buy crap food. But I still validate his desires and maybe say "yes, I hear you that you want that candy. It does taste good. I don't want to spend money on that kind of food because it's bad for our bodies, but maybe the two of us can make some homemade cookies this weekend?"

[denimtiger]

Honestly? His behavior worked for him. He accomplished a goal with it, even with the nap. His behavior kept him in an interaction with you, got you to lay down with him, and kept you laying down with him in an all-out battle for over an hour (longer?). You state in your post that "if you let him, he'll keep going for hours." Clearly, you've tested that.

Just because a child's behavior doesn't earn them the goal they're stating out loud (getting to stay up and play), doesn't mean it's not accomplishing a goal that it's worth (to them) persisting in a behavior for. He's not continuing the behavior because it works at Dad's house. He's continuing because it works at yours.

I get that it isn't just about the nap, although I agree with some of the PPs in not trying to force children into things you're not capable of physically forcing. You can force time in a room for an hour or so -- you can't force him to sleep.

Some of the other times, though, his goal in the behavior is probably to keep you locked in a confrontation for as long as he can manage. Try giving him no reaction for it. Make the statement once, and peacefully ignore everything after that, while gently physically doing what you need to do to remain in charge of the situation (removing the offending toy, then stepping away and continuing to do dishes, read your book, check your e-mail, whatever.) If he tries to engage you pleasantly after that, immediately respond with your full undivided attention to give him the feedback he's looking for, but ignore any negative comments from him.

Don't fall into the trap of thinking that at some point he's going to come around and see things your way and agree with what you're doing. If using consequences is the parenting method that works for you, then make it work. If you're taking away his toy, or putting him in time-out he's going to be upset about it. That's kind of the point of a consequence like that. He's never, never, NEVER going to just say "Gee Mom, I guess you're right. You should take my toy when I behave that way. Here you go." Accept that he's going to be upset and that he's going to try anything he can to make you as upset as he is. That's what mad people do. (And his current method of choice has been successful for over a year now -- that's amazingly powerful). Don't get harsh, don't ANYTHING; if he's been warned, just take the toy or walk him to time-out, or set him in his bed (over and over and over again if necessary) without fanfare. Buy yourself a great book to immerse yourself in to give you an incentive to stay calm and do what you need to do.