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dh wants to start "trial separation" in two days -- what do we say to the LOs?

4K views 42 replies 24 participants last post by  Jacksmum8 
#1 ·
My Christmas present was finding out on Dec 22 how deeply dh has disengaged from our marriage but he "had no solutions". On Dec 28 he started antidepressants for the first time. This morning he announced that he wants to start a "trial separation" in two days.


What and how on earth do we tell our children (3.5 yo dd and 6 yo ds)? Tomorrow may be our last "normal" day as a family
. Ds has a lot of issues and I'm especially concerned about how this will affect him.

How can we minimize the impact of this on them? Dh claims that he intends to maintain normal routines that he has with the kids (while not living here). I'm not sure how realistic that is even in the short term.

The loose plan is to "make the announcement" to the kids tomorrow morning, then spend the day trying to make it OK for them
.

I really wish that dh was giving me more time to prepare a strategy for this, but as far as I can tell I'd only be able to delay his moving out by a day or two if there was a compelling reason.
 
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#2 ·
I'm so terribly sorry. I'm not sure how to prepare kids for this. Mine were 1 & 3 when X moved out, but there was no question that it was going to be permanent. We simply told my 3 yo that Daddy would have a new apartment, and that she would have two homes now! We answered her questions, but did not give her more information than she asked for. I don't think she asked "why." My 1 yo didn't even notice. X didn't do much parenting of him, as he was a VERY high needs (I suppose that's the PC term) baby.

I realize this may be significantly different with a 6yo.

Is there anyway at all you could convince your husband to sleep in the guest room (or do whatever creative rearranging has to be done to free up a spare sleeping space) while you two do whatever "trying" he is suggesting you would do during this trial separation? Counseling, etc? I think my argument would be that dumping this kind of uncertainty and flux on kids is simply not fair. The adults need to have exhausted all options & have come to a final decision before getting the kids involved (& having a parent leave is getting the kids involved). My Dad's parents divorced, and then remarried each other later, and the whole things was incredibly upsetting for him, so I'd really try to avoid the potential for that back & forth.
 
#3 ·
Hi Ksenia ... I'm so sorry that you're going through such a hard time. I can only give advice from having been a kid in this situation and having been a child advocate at a transition house for many years, where mamas were often facing a similar conversation.
  • Make sure everyone has been fed well, and has had a decent night's sleep (if at all possible ...)
  • Make sure that you and your husband are on the same page about what and how much to say.
  • Practice what you're going to say ahead of time (both of you), write it down if you need too.
  • Use clear language and short sentences. Be logical, no metaphors or comparisons.
  • Be mindful of your body language. Keep your arms uncrossed. Get down on the kids' level.
  • Answer any and all questions, in an age appropriate manner.
  • Your 6 yo will have more to say about it than your little one.
  • Resist the urge to extrapolate or over-explain. Your kids don't need to know everything right now, because even you don't know what the future holds.
  • Don't tell them that everything will be okay.
  • Don't make any promises that you can't keep.
  • Acknowledge their feelings.
Good luck, mama. How hard. How sad and hard for you. I'm so sorry that you're going through this.
 
#4 ·
OMG, Ksenia
. I am still in shock from your first post about this & trying to formulate a reply
. I can't imagine how difficult this must be for you...
I'm not sure how many details you are planning to give the kids...is there any way to say he is going away on a trip for a couple of weeks to get them used to him not being around so much before telling them it might be a while longer? Is there a time frame for the 'trial separation'?
It sounds like you've gone this route, but is there anything you can do to get him to stick around until the anti-depressants kick in? I mean have you asked him that question?

Quote:
I really wish that dh was giving me more time to prepare a strategy for this, but as far as I can tell I'd only be able to delay his moving out by a day or two if there was a compelling reason.
Seems to me that if being there for you & the kids isn't a compelling enough reason for him, then nothing else would be.

I'm so sorry
.
 
#5 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosehip View Post
Is there anyway at all you could convince your husband to sleep in the guest room (or do whatever creative rearranging has to be done to free up a spare sleeping space) while you two do whatever "trying" he is suggesting you would do during this trial separation? Counseling, etc?
Dh doesn't want to be doing any trying right now. He has been sleeping alone (dh has sleep issues) and I've cosleeping and doing nighttime parenting with the kids for years. We went to about 10 counselling sessions ending about 10 months ago and dh is not open to doing that with me now.
 
#6 ·
ksenia, i am so sorry.
i wish i could tell you what to say. i agree that it is very rushed. perhaps if he could make sure he is there whenever they are awake it might not seem so shockingly abrupt?

an acquaintance has set things up so the the parents do the visiting, and share another residence that they spend separate time in ...i don't know that this would work in this case, but i do think that maintaining your home as still their primary residence for at least while this is on trial may also help.

i really wish i could help
at least we could have a playdate here to give you some time to talk while the children play...let me know if you can manage that sometime.

i would also highly recommend that you have a therapist to support you through this x

*
 
#7 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksenia View Post
...he wants to start a "trial separation" in two days.

What and how on earth do we tell our children (3.5 yo dd and 6 yo ds)?

Hmmm, well, I would suggest to both of you that you not decide anything permanent until he's been taking those meds for at least 6 weeks, preferably 3 months. This has been brewing for a long time, right? So it will take some time to... sort out.

In the meantime, if it were me, I'd probably tell my own kids something like:

Quote:
Daddy is taking a little break because he's very tired and not feeling well. He'll still come over and you'll see him, but maybe not quite as much as usual.
Since, at this point, it's a temporary thing, I would play it down somewhat. I would also suggest that you and your DH treat it as temporary - like a "vacation" from certain responsibilities - with full intention of resuming normal family life in the future. That could make some difference between the two of you, which is perhaps going to have a greater impact on your kids at this time than your words. Your little DD will probably take the above at face value, it's your DS who will likely ask tougher questions. If they ask when or if he'll come back, you could probably be honest and say that you don't know but you hope or think so, that it just depends on how he's feeling.

Sometimes Wes disappears for 36 hours or so (without telling me anything) because he's mad at me. (Often rightfully so.) I just tell Calvin that "Daddy is taking a break, he's probably sleeping at work". Which is generally where he goes. (His freeloading brothers are still taking up all the spare rooms at his parents' home, otherwise he'd go there.) Calvin gets upset (also rightfully so) because Wes doesn't say anything to him.

As it is, your kids are used to him being away for a few days at a time because of his work schedule, right? My dad was a truck driver, so when he left my mom (my sister and I were 7 and 11), that was one thing that made the transition easier, that I was used to him being away, it just meant he'd be away most of the time instead of only some of the time.

wishing I could just
fix this for you...
 
#8 ·
I'm sorry, Ksenia.

Dh has been working 7 days a week for a while now. What I say to dd is that daddy is working. We can discuss her feelings about this, but I present the state of things as they are - she does not get to request that daddy not work, but she can express her feelings about it. I would do something similar in your situation - I would say that daddy is taking a break to think about things and focus discussion on how we all need to think about things sometimes. I know that this sounds very calm and rational and that is difficult, since you are thinking about a lot at the moment.

I echo the need for a therapist for yourself so that you can allow yourself to be as emotional and overwhelmed as you need to be, while at the same time formulating a plan. I don't know of anyone who could come to the home, but perhaps there is such a thing? In the past when I have been very angry, I have discussed this with dd and I know that is not right. I'm trying to fix that by discussing these things with other (sometimes paid) adults.
 
#9 ·
Hi Ksenia, I'm so sorry to hear about this though I know it's been coming for a while. I don't think there is anything you can do at this point, if that is what your DH feels he needs to do right now I don't think you'll be able to change his mind. It may be for the better for both of you to have a break from the stress of the relationship, and allow you to see future possibilities that are hard to see right now. <hug>

As a child whose parents divorced when I was around 5 years old I still remember the evening when Mum came to tell us. I still remember that we were watching Sonny and Cher and I was angry when she turned off the TV! She explained that Dad was no longer going to live here, but that we would see him every day as we always did.

I remember crying, and also recall wondering WHY I was crying, as I didn't understand. I think I picked up from my mother's emotions. At that age I had no concept of a marital relationship, so whether they lived together or apart was pretty meaningless to me. Knowing that I was still going to see Dad every day, and he'd do all the things he used to (violin practice, etc) was what really mattered to me.

I think for your children, the only thing they might feel worried about is not seeing their Dad like they do right now, as often, etc. Otherwise I don't think your marital woes are going to cross their radar, kwim?

I agree with what Starling has written, and here is my own advice:

1) there is absolutely no need at this point to explain the relationship side of things. kids that age have no real concept of what a marital relationship is: you are the their mother and he is their father because that's just the way it is...

2) given that, I would frame this as "there are lots of different kinds of families, blah blah blah...in some families the Mum and Dad don't live in the same house, the kids have two houses, etc....." then explain that you and DH have decided to try another way to see if that works out better for the family.

3) they'll probably say they like things the way they are, don't want things to change, etc but just as with any other change they don't like (new bedtimes, moving to a new home, etc) you'll support and validate them while gently emphasizing that this is the way it will be for a while

4) make VERY sure the children understand this has NOTHING to do with them. they are self-centred by nature and will assume they do if someone doesn't make it clear that this isn't about them

5) I personally feel there is no need to discuss your relationship with DH to them, or how it is involved in this decision. I honestly think they have no idea of what that is anyway, and to tell them will only cause them anxiety and worry over something they don't understand and can't change

6) finally, I don't think you need to give them a time frame. kids adapt to the "new normal" rather quickly IME and since neither of you know how this will play out why put it out there? simply say "this is the way it will be for the next little while" and leave it at that.

I'm sad for you for all the pain and anxiety this must be causing you. But it may also be a good opportunity for you both to get some breathing space and figure out what you want/need.
 
#12 ·
Thanks for the advice and support. A friend also sent me this link:
http://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/docz...ce/talking.pdf
Though I'm not convinced that the advice is really appropriate to my kids' ages.

Now dh is talking about hiring a lawyer (supposedly a mediator) to deal with the details of separating. I am starting to wonder what is "trial" about this. He said that he feels the door is closed to a reconciliation right now.

I am shocked and heartbroken
It's hard to accept that he's throwing away seventeen years of togetherness. Today I struggled to hold it together in front of the children.
 
#15 ·
trial separation my ass. I would tell him if he chooses to take a "vacation" than it's going to be with the kids; and see what happens. Why should he get a guilt free vacation from his parental responsibilities while you and your lo's grieve over him. Who does he think he is
?!?! I'd agree to a 3 day vacation a the local hospital while he gets stable on his medication, and gets a chance to look at his life and what he's about to step out of.. I have 0 tolorance for ignorant people. This hit close to home, sorry about the tude.

ETA: my advice is to convince him to stay until the meds kick in, or somehow get him checked in somewhere so whatever is going on is his head doesn't permanantly mess up your life, the kids lives, and his life. If he's not thinking right, he shouldn't be allowed to make life altering decisions IMO
 
#16 ·
Kailey's Mom, I told him that I thought that it would be in everyone's interest for him to allow the meds to do their work before making decisions. He is an extreme "doer" though, and he seems to think that he must take action on this immediately.

He is listening to men who seem to feel that the impact of separation on the children is minimal -- "cool, you get two homes now!". And some "helpful" guys at work are coaching on how to navigate the separation/divorce strategically (e.g. how the courts will look on various things).
 
#17 ·
Hi Ksenia, first off I want to offer many


I have read these posts and you have received some amazing advice and suggestions. My thoughts are with all of you right now, and have been through the recent days. I am one too, who wishes that somehow magically S could find some patience and wait to see how his thoughts and emotions level out before doing anything so devastating. It just seems so unfair to your LO's who have the least control over anything.


Mothering has some links to experts and advisors who field questions about separation and divorce...I'll find the link....here it is...was thinking maybe there are previous questions/answers concerning the communication part.

"Best of luck" feels insincere, so I am wishing you the best of intention and authenticity during the next few days.

Oh, and was going to mention, that we know of a couple who separated (when the mama discovered she was gay) and so, the children , 8 & 5 stay in the home all of the time while the parents come into the home one at a time for 3-4 days and then the other alternates that way. The off-residence parent stays close by in another home that they have set up for this, and so it can be fairly small, because it only occupies one adult.
 
#18 ·
oh my god Ksenia, I'm so sorry about all of this.
I don't have much else to add, but be good to yourself while you're working all of this out. I would also second the idea (and third and fourth and fifth it) of keeping the kids in the same residence and the two of you sharing a small apartment nearby, at least for the first year or so...

If he is talking to a lawyer, I hate to say this, but you probably should be too. and working on getting into mediation and counseling. I'm so sorry, I wish I were there to hug you!
 
#19 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksenia View Post
Kailey's Mom, I told him that I thought that it would be in everyone's interest for him to allow the meds to do their work before making decisions. He is an extreme "doer" though, and he seems to think that he must take action on this immediately.

He is listening to men who seem to feel that the impact of separation on the children is minimal -- "cool, you get two homes now!". And some "helpful" guys at work are coaching on how to navigate the separation/divorce strategically (e.g. how the courts will look on various things).
ugghh... I'll be praying. Please take care of yourself hun; I'm so sorry this is happening
 
#20 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksenia View Post
Thanks for the advice and support. A friend also sent me this link:
http://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/docz...ce/talking.pdf
Though I'm not convinced that the advice is really appropriate to my kids' ages.

Now dh is talking about hiring a lawyer (supposedly a mediator) to deal with the details of separating. I am starting to wonder what is "trial" about this. He said that he feels the door is closed to a reconciliation right now.

I am shocked and heartbroken
It's hard to accept that he's throwing away seventeen years of togetherness. Today I struggled to hold it together in front of the children.

It probably is a good idea to get this dealt with in court. But I don't recommend using the same attorney. Especially if your stbx is the one hiring the attorney. The attorney will represent your stbx and not you.

You do need to get a temporary parenting plan in place and support set up. Because without a court order, he is under no obligation whatsoever to financially support the kids or pay joint bills. And he can take the kids anytime he wants.

If he wants a trial separation, let him feel the full impact of that. One of the impacts is that his schedule with the kids before the separation isn't the same as it was when he was living there (the same does go for you, as well). That may get him to think twice about not working on the relationship. And if it doesn't, well, everyone is protected legally.
 
#21 ·
I'm sorry to hear about the lawyer, but I agree with the above advice that you should also be thinking about your interests. It can be hard when you are deep in the emotional pain of his actions, but draw some strength from your Mama Bear instinct: you need to protect your children.

Think about where the kids will live, and how you will share child duties. There are also financial considerations. You are an unschooling, stay home Mum and if he doesn't provide you with appropriate support the results could be disastrous (i.e. having to put the kids in school so you can work). Make sure that you have some money put aside in a place where he can't touch it. There's nothing to stop him from emptying joint accounts while he obtains and furnishes his new digs. You really, really should talk to a good lawyer.

And I third (fourth) the recommendation that you seek out some counselling.
 
#22 ·
(((ksenia)))

i have a friend who had a great mediator set out a very good parenting plan with her + her husband. i'll put you in touch. so many folks go through this, at least in that you know you can find the information for how to proceed now.

it sounds like you were right about it not being temporary. i'm so sorry about this
but i hope like piglet says that you will begin to find how this might work better for you.

i would also be putting my name on co-op lists just in case it becomes necessary to sell your place to manage all of this change
so you have some options.

*
 
#25 ·
We just told the children this morning. We kept it pretty short and simple and they didn't react much.

I'll try to organize counselling. I'm going back to our old marriage counsellor for a session, but I won't be able to continue with her as it's not covered through dh's extended.

I'm very hesistant to agreeing to mediation as I haven't had time to process what my needs and my children's needs are in this new landscape. I don't know what dh's home will be like, and I don't have any way of knowing if I have all the information about the situation right now. Once an agreement is made, it could be hard to change it. Plus mediators are lawyers, and all lawyers specialize in separating anguished people from their money -- I have a real trust issue regarding being involved in a legal process where my interests aren't directly represented. But hiring personal representation would put things on an adversarial path so I don't like that idea either. I wish I could get advice from a non-lawyer specialist in supporting families, esp children, through this.

As for $$, I have a small amount in my personal account and that's all I have access to...and I have the major credit card debt from dh using our personal credit as part of a business plan that didn't pan out as he planned. I don't have that much to lose right now other than the apartment and the car (edited to add: and the kids!!)
 
#26 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksenia View Post
I wish I could get advice from a non-lawyer specialist in supporting families, esp children, through this.
How about Family Services of Greater Vancouver? They have a family reunification counsellor, so may have resources for separation too. Maybe give them a call and see if they have any programs that would be food for your family, or if they could refer you to some. Good luck, hon!
 
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