Why don't more people do EC? - Page 2

[zinemama]

Because we just don't want to. Because it seems like another item to check on the "how crunchy are you" scale and we've got enough on our plate as it is. Because figuring out how to breastfeed and take care of a baby all while being more exhausted and demoralized than we've ever been in our lives is hard enough and the idea of adding to that the constant vigilance for any sign of impending pee or poop makes us want to tear our hair out more than we already do.

And then, when things finally settle down and we start getting a tiny bit more sleep and figuring out this baby, the thought of adding another complication seems insane.

No offense to anyone who thinks it's a piece of cake, but for me, that's why.

[honey-lilac]

White carpeting.

And other young kids to take care of.

[tankgirl73]

I can understand folks not wanting to do full-time EC.

What I can NOT understand is folks not putting their babies on a potty (or wherever), when they KNOW they're about to poop, when they KNOW they have that option, and insist that they PREFER diapers.

My SIL just had her 2nd baby. Her 1st is about the same age as our daughter, who was EC'd since birth. She saw it in action many times. Her mom -- DH's mom, DD's grandma -- even tried it with DD and was convinced. But she wouldn't try it. At age 3, DD is completely potty independent, and her son was having "problems" getting trained.

He's doing pretty well now, of course, being 3.5yo. That was over 3 years of diapers to change. So she has experienced that side of things, and observed ours all along.

Now comes baby #2. They were in town for a visit over Christmas. "Oh, look, she's going to poop" she intones. "You can tell??" "Oh yes, it's obvious". "So... put her on the potty. Save yourself the mess and the clean-up." "Oh, no... you do what works for your family, we'll do what works for ours. We like diapers."

And she sat and waited for her daughter to poop in her pants. Then cleaned it up. Then did the same thing a half hour later. And 15 minutes after that. This kid is at the age of being a real pooper lol... they came to our house for 2 hours and used 5 disposable diapers.

I mean, when WE tried EC, we weren't convinced. We didn't go into it thinking "this will revolutionize our life". We just figured it was WORTH A TRY, just in case it worked.

So I can't understand the mindset of not even being willing to TRY... when you KNOW your baby is about to 'go', when you personally know a child who was successfully EC'd... what is the remaining stumbling block??? I can understand people who don't know about it. I can understand people thinking it has to be all-or-nothing. I can understand people thinking it would be too messy. I can't understand not taking the simple step of saving themselves a messy diaper to clean up, once in awhile, when they know it's coming and they ARE aware of the option. I mean, many folks come to EC 'by accident' by figuring that much out for themselves. And here we have someone being handed everything they need on a silver platter, and still outright REFUSING to even TRY it. Arghhhhh...

To end on a happy note, DH 'proselytizes' about EC to his co-workers whenever he gets the chance, (like when they have babies) and 99% of the time, people are intrigued and willing to look into it for themselves.

[zoebird]

zinemama,

i chose to read it as "it felt to me that it would be another complication at a difficult time, and for me, just another check off the list that doesn't really exist and that i don't need to check off anyway."

but, i could have read it as "it just seems like ECers are playing crunchier-than-thou and doing things that are more complicated than necessary."

I have no problem with people choosing to not EC, afterall, i'm living with diapering friends. I have no issue with what they are doing, and they have no issue with what we are doing. We are not in a 'crunchier than thou' game, and i certainly don't think i'm a better parent because we EC, co-sleep, delay or forgo certain vaxes, breast feed, no day care etc. we just parent differently.

also, for me, i am more comfortable with different parenting styles when i know that the parent is thoughtful. my experience of MDCers (and many other crunchy types) is that they have been exposed to the gamut of options and chose what is right for them. SO, why they don't EC is easier for me to accept than say, the woman who has never heard of it and is giving me the evil eye when i potty my son at the playground (in the toilet mind you), and says "oh, that's just dumb!"

I figure that, here at least, it's really about choices and what works for your family, but out in the world, i often wonder why more people don't consider it when they first hear of it.

and i realize that's because, afterall, it does sound nuts. it's so against what we are used to. i admit that when i was about 7 yrs before getting pregnant, i'd heard of it, and it wasn't for another 3 years that i decided to actually look into it. at first, i thought it was nuts too.

then it grew on me. and then it was successful for us. but if it wasn't for you (or anyone else) then that's fine too.

[pixiepunk]

First of all, the question wasn't exactly "why don't you EC" ... it was "why don't MORE people EC." and this is the EC forum, so there is likely an expectation from the OP that the people reading here have a reasonable understanding of what EC is and what it entails. if you read the first page of the thread, it has largely been a discussion about information and support, and it has been extremely respectful towards people who don't EC, with some insightful and informative posts from people who don't (or did for a while and stopped). it has, by and large, been a very respectful and informative discussion. and then...

"Because it seems like another item to check on the "how crunchy are you" scale."

That is what you said. This says to me that your opinion is that the choice has no value other than bragging rights. and i find that insulting. I have encountered way too much of this type of comment on MDC. to me it is no different than someone who chooses an epidural telling me that i think i'm some superior martyr because i chose an unmedicated birth. It says "there is no benefit to having an unmedicated birth other than bragging rights." and to me it shows a complete lack of understanding about what the actual benefits are to the choice i made. It has nothing to do with holier than thou, crunchier than thou, or me thinking my way is the only way or the best way. my way is the best way FOR ME. i don't give a rat's hind end how you parent. in fact some of my best friends in the world are the most mainstream parents you could ever hope to meet, and we thoroughly respect each other and the choices the other has made. but when someone on an EC forum asks the question "why don't more people EC" it is pretty bizarre to have responses that insinuate that the only reason one *would* choose to EC is to get the gold medal in some sort of race for crunchiest mom of the year.

as for the watching for signals thing... this is one of the most common misunderstandings that people repeatedly express about EC. I watch my kid for EC signals like i watch my kid for signs of hunger or sleepiness. Yes, i am aware of my children, and i am aware when they are expressing a need to eliminate, eat, or sleep. But lots of non-EC'ers seem to think this requires some extreme exertion of effort... that we EC'ers spend half of our day watching your babies like a hawk, staring at our child's hind end waiting to rush them off to the toilet. And yeah, if that's what EC was all about, I wouldn't do it, and it'd surprise me thoroughly if many people would. Why would I sacrifice having fun and spending time with my baby so i could get some pee in the toilet? truly it is just bizarre that anyone thinks we do that. yes obviously you have to figure out how your child communicates with you. but like most everything else, it doesn't require too much effort. seriously. i have 3 kids, and i work part-time. and now i'm a full-time student as well. keeping my living room from looking like the site of a natural disaster takes *way* more of my time than EC does. and all of my kids have been out of diapers a lot earlier than their diapered/PL'ing peers, so it's also work for a lot less time in the long run and a lot fewer diapers to wash with very little diaper pop to deal with in that shorter period of time, for the greater majority of people.

also, for me, i am more comfortable with different parenting styles when i know that the parent is thoughtful. my experience of MDCers (and many other crunchy types) is that they have been exposed to the gamut of options and chose what is right for them. SO, why they don't EC is easier for me to accept than say, the woman who has never heard of it and is giving me the evil eye when i potty my son at the playground (in the toilet mind you), and says "oh, that's just dumb!"

See, i don't really agree with this. well, i mean obviously it's your experience, i'm not negating your experience, but saying rather that it has not been my own. My experience on MDC (and with other crunchy mamas) is that most of those people have *heard* of EC, and they *think* they know what it is. And of course obviously many do, maybe they read an EC book or Tribal Baby and it didn't resonate with them, perhaps they even tried it and it just didn't work for them. Fine, cool, no problem, no skin off my banana. do what works for you, and have fun with your baby. But many more "know" about EC like a lot of sposie mamas "know" about cloth diapering. they "know" it's a lot of extra work with no benefit for them or their baby, just giving that mama some crunchy bragging rights.

If you don't want to do it, don't even want to learn about it, I don't care. Don't do it. Think i'm a crunchy nut bag who spends her whole day dealing with excrement at the expense of her relationship with her child. But don't tell me that the only reason anyone *would* do it is so they could feel crunchier than you. Sorry, but that is offensive. at least, it is to me.

[zoebird]

hmm, that poses a interesting question, pixie--is that my experience or my assumption?

i think it's the assumption that i've decided to take so that i don't end up in a tizzy when i possibly misread someone's writing. i would also say it is largely my experience of MDC mommas (or daddies too)--that they are at least looking into things or have heard of it, even if they don't follow up and do a lot of research on it.

i mean, i can understand hearing of it and going "yeah, that doesn't sound right for me" and enver researching it, yk? just deciding right then. it may not be in-depth thoughtful, but at least it is a bit more open than that lady i ran into at the coffee shop. LOL

but, i have discovered that over the past year, i've really tried to take the "see the best in everyone" approach, and with this "assume that they mean X and not something personal against me." which, i demonstrated in my response.

because i often think that people don't say exactly what they mean, and it's tough in this medium. and i was finding myself put off by a lot of things online (mostly on face book--lol), and wanted online time to be fun, not annoying. LOL

[zinemama]

Originally Posted by zoebird

zinemama,

i chose to read it as "it felt to me that it would be another complication at a difficult time, and for me, just another check off the list that doesn't really exist and that i don't need to check off anyway."

Thank you, zoebird. That is exactly what I meant. I also agree with what you said about MDC'ers knowing a little something about ECing (as opposed to the general population.) I've read those glowing posts, I know how people feel about it and admire their enthusiasm. It's still not for me. That is all.

As for crunch points and EC...Advocates of any child-rearing method can create the impression that parenting is a contest of sorts. I would suggest that anyone who is insulted by the very notion of that concept should take a good hard look at the way they communicate about their particular method of doing things. Dismissal of other people's experience, pitying condescension, the repeated accusation that those not on board are "misinformed" - these are the behaviors that create an impression of someone more interested in exhibiting their own superiority than in genuine communication.

That's not what I see generally in this forum, by the way. I think it's great that you are doing what works for you.

[zoebird]

the comparison game is a tough process. i find it everywhere, and i have found ways to completely avoid it simply by not taking things personally and complimenting when i find that a mom wants to get in on that.

we were at the playground yesterday and this one mom was really feeling the comparison game. she just kept trying to compare. so she would say 'oh, my little giana is so great at climbing up the ladder! how about your son?" and i would say "oh, he's very active (general statement); gianna just looks like she's such a happy, fun little girl." Mom feels good, but you've stayed out of the game.

DH calls it 'mommy-aikido!"

[Tumble Bumbles]

Great posts zoebird and zinemama.

[pixiepunk]

Originally Posted by zoebird

hmm, that poses a interesting question, pixie--is that my experience or my assumption?

i think it's the assumption that i've decided to take so that i don't end up in a tizzy when i possibly misread someone's writing. i would also say it is largely my experience of MDC mommas (or daddies too)--that they are at least looking into things or have heard of it, even if they don't follow up and do a lot of research on it.

i mean, i can understand hearing of it and going "yeah, that doesn't sound right for me" and enver researching it, yk? just deciding right then. it may not be in-depth thoughtful, but at least it is a bit more open than that lady i ran into at the coffee shop. LOL

but, i have discovered that over the past year, i've really tried to take the "see the best in everyone" approach, and with this "assume that they mean X and not something personal against me." which, i demonstrated in my response.

because i often think that people don't say exactly what they mean, and it's tough in this medium. and i was finding myself put off by a lot of things online (mostly on face book--lol), and wanted online time to be fun, not annoying. LOL

ITA. you said it a great deal more eloquently than I did of course i don't think everyone in the world needs to research EC, or even give a flying hoot what it even is. i feel that way about pretty much all parenting choices. clearly i made the choices i felt were the best for me and my family, but that doesn't mean i think they're the best for everyone else. in fact, i have been known to argue against the "ec is for everyone" idea on more than one occasion because i truly don't think that it is. all i ask is that you respect me and my choice, and not make it sound like you think it's the hugest waste of time you've ever heard of.

i guess i just do not think that it is in any way productive to respond to a thread on an EC forum about making a choice against EC in a "why in the world would I EC" way. and yes, i know it's hard to read tone online, and that is problematic, but it is IMO important to think about your audience and to try and speak accordingly. for example, i don't think it would be appropriate if you were crib sleeping to post on a co-sleeping forum that you chose to crib sleep because co-sleeping "seems like another item to check on the "how crunchy are you" scale." Even if that were truly and exactly the reason you chose not to co-sleep... it's just sort of a smack in the face to the room full of co-sleepers you're talking to. you're being truthful and honest, but not terribly considerate or respectful. and so, likewise, i guess it would just be nice if people thought about the fact that they were talking to EC'ers when they post on the EC forum, yk?

[seraf]

When I was ECing, I always figured people like to do what they're used to. Some people are used to diapers, and that's cool. I could never get the hang of them. I'm all thumbs. Most everyone I've known uses the toilet, so it just make sense to me that a baby would too.

Totally joking (well, sort of) The plan with my first was to EC for obvious poops but he would get rashy even in dry diapers. So we wound up gung-ho EC from the start to deal with super sensitive skin that turned out to be caused by food sensitivity. So EC was the answer to a complication in my life, rather than a complication in itself. I could see skipping it if I had a robust baby who never indicated discomfort in a diaper and I could do it one handed and blindfolded.

Seraf

[DevaMajka]

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