UPers, am I doing this right?

[mamaluvs]

I recently finished reading Kohn's book and I loved it but I often find it very difficult to put into action with my 27 month old DD. All the explaining/reasoning in the world just sometimes doesn't work. I also feel like she does better with a little more concrete structure with discipline. During situations, I try the reasoning/explaining thing but then eventually must move onto another tactic. I sometimes wonder though if my tactics are just veiled threats/love withdrawal etc. Here are some examples:

1. DD often repeats the same request over and over and over. For example, she wanted a popscicle. We didn't have any popscicles so I explained that to her repeatedley. I even showed her the freezer. How many times do I have to explain this to her before trying another method? I also offer her other alternatives. I mean she could easily go on and on about this. Eventually, I explain one last time my reason for saying no and then I add "I am done talking to you about this. Would you like to talk about something different?." If she continues on the same subject, I'll say "I am not going to talk about this anymore. When you want to talk about something different, let me know." Eventually, she moves on to another topic. Is this a fair approach? Or is this like love withdrawal because I am no longer responding to the request?

2. What do you do when something needs to get done but DC is resistant? For example, she often fight getting a diaper put on her. She cannot be without a diaper for long pesriods of time because she will pee on the carpet. I do not want to spend my days cleaning up urine. I will try reasoning with her, I will try making it into a game. This doesn't always work. She gets a choice of which adult will put the diaper on, if DH is home or Grandpa/ma is around. Sometimes that doesn't work. Eventually, I say "DD, I want you to choose someone to put on your diaper by the time I count to 3 or I will just have to pick you up and do it." Then she complies. Is this okay? Or is this just a threat?

I just find this stuff so difficult to apply to everyday life. I really think adding more "structure" to my discipline method would work better but I'm just not sure how to do respectfully. Any thoughts?

[twinergy]

Originally Posted by mamaluvs

1. DD often repeats the same request over and over and over. For example, she wanted a popscicle. We didn't have any popscicles so I explained that to her repeatedley. I even showed her the freezer. How many times do I have to explain this to her before trying another method? I also offer her other alternatives. I mean she could easily go on and on about this. Eventually, I explain one last time my reason for saying no and then I add "I am done talking to you about this. Would you like to talk about something different?." If she continues on the same subject, I'll say "I am not going to talk about this anymore. When you want to talk about something different, let me know." Eventually, she moves on to another topic. Is this a fair approach? Or is this like love withdrawal because I am no longer responding to the request?

2. What do you do when something needs to get done but DC is resistant? For example, she often fight getting a diaper put on her. She cannot be without a diaper for long pesriods of time because she will pee on the carpet. I do not want to spend my days cleaning up urine. I will try reasoning with her, I will try making it into a game. This doesn't always work. She gets a choice of which adult will put the diaper on, if DH is home or Grandpa/ma is around. Sometimes that doesn't work. Eventually, I say "DD, I want you to choose someone to put on your diaper by the time I count to 3 or I will just have to pick you up and do it." Then she complies. Is this okay? Or is this just a threat?

1. My twins are the same age and we have come up with a game that we like to play in similar situations. I call it "The No Game." I just start coming up with other alternatives and I usually get a long string of no's as the answer. It goes something like this...
Me: Do you want to read Personal Penguin?
Kid: No!
Me: Do you want to talk about squirrels?
Kid: No!
Me: Do you want to play little piggies?
Kid: Yeah.
Of course it goes on a lot longer than this example. I usually ask about the stuff I'm sure they will say no to first then build up to the good stuff. Bonding activities are good choices to offer. I can tell they like playing it sometimes but not other times by the way they say no. At this age they get stuck on one thought and need help moving on. I also think that this helps them feel empowered to get to tell me "no" after I just told them "no."


gotta run, more later

[mamazee]

In the first scenario, have you tried verbally empathizing? "You wish we had popsicles, don't you? I wish we had some too." Sometimes kids want to hear that kind of thing, have that desire stated. You can also get silly, like "I wish I had a second house full of freezers with nothing but popsicles in them!"

As for the second, sometimes you just have to do something. If you have to change her diaper, just do it without threats, IMO. Try to make it as positive an experience as possible, by giving her something interesting to look at that is only available when getting her diaper changed maybe. We didn't watch much TV in our house but there was a time when I would turn it on for a minute when I was changing diapers and just have her watch it only when changing. Also, eventually I used pull-on training diapers, and I'd just sit my dd on the toilet when I changed her, and it seemed to help with the transition to using the potty too. So I'd keep trying to make it better, but until you find something that works, I'd just do it the first time rather than threatening. It might not feel like a threat to you, but I bet that's how your dc perceives it.

[twinergy]

Sorry I had to go eariler, DD and DS are both teething and not sleeping so well.
1. I agree with PP about empathizing. In fact, that is the first thing I do. I only use the no game when that doesn't work.
2. Alfie Kohn does mention that there are times that parents need to use control, but to choose your battles. He gave an example of a situation where safety was an issue. My problem with UP is that he spent maybe 2 paragraphs making this point, so it is easily missed. He also suggests to look for compromises so both the parent and child get what they want. PP had lots of good suggestions, the only thing I can think of to add is maybe have 2 adults, when available, help change her. One can change the diaper while the other makes silly faces at her. It works wonders for my kids.

BTW, is your DD getting naked time? I often find more resistance to putting diapers back on when they aren't getting much naked time. I like to give them naked time in the bathroom with the door open. I sit at the door with a diaper ready to put on and give them the choice of naked time in the bathroom or put the diaper on and be in the bedroom. They will often just lie down onto the diaper, no struggle, to get past me.

[mamaluvs]

Originally Posted by twinergy

1. My twins are the same age and we have come up with a game that we like to play in similar situations. I call it "The No Game." I just start coming up with other alternatives and I usually get a long string of no's as the answer. It goes something like this...
Me: Do you want to read Personal Penguin?
Kid: No!
Me: Do you want to talk about squirrels?
Kid: No!
Me: Do you want to play little piggies?
Kid: Yeah.
Of course it goes on a lot longer than this example. I usually ask about the stuff I'm sure they will say no to first then build up to the good stuff. Bonding activities are good choices to offer. I can tell they like playing it sometimes but not other times by the way they say no. At this age they get stuck on one thought and need help moving on. I also think that this helps them feel empowered to get to tell me "no" after I just told them "no."


gotta run, more later

Sounds fun, I'll try it.

[mamaluvs]

Originally Posted by mamazee

In the first scenario, have you tried verbally empathizing? "You wish we had popsicles, don't you? I wish we had some too." Sometimes kids want to hear that kind of thing, have that desire stated. You can also get silly, like "I wish I had a second house full of freezers with nothing but popsicles in them!"

As for the second, sometimes you just have to do something. If you have to change her diaper, just do it without threats, IMO. Try to make it as positive an experience as possible, by giving her something interesting to look at that is only available when getting her diaper changed maybe. We didn't watch much TV in our house but there was a time when I would turn it on for a minute when I was changing diapers and just have her watch it only when changing. Also, eventually I used pull-on training diapers, and I'd just sit my dd on the toilet when I changed her, and it seemed to help with the transition to using the potty too. So I'd keep trying to make it better, but until you find something that works, I'd just do it the first time rather than threatening. It might not feel like a threat to you, but I bet that's how your dc perceives it.

Thanks for the advice.
I do try to validate her feelings (forgot to write that). It does work sometimes but not always.

I will try to use the silly thing. We do try to make things into games often but sometimes I just forget this tactic. Thanks for the reminder.

I agree that counting to 3 could come across as a threat, depending on the situation it sure feels like a threat. Here's my question though, at least in my scenario, DD is still getting some choice/power. If I just declare that I'm going to change her diaper and she is screaming fighting the whole time is that better or worse than giving her choices and then making her choose within a certain time frame?

[mamaluvs]

Originally Posted by twinergy

BTW, is your DD getting naked time? I often find more resistance to putting diapers back on when they aren't getting much naked time. I like to give them naked time in the bathroom with the door open. I sit at the door with a diaper ready to put on and give them the choice of naked time in the bathroom or put the diaper on and be in the bedroom. They will often just lie down onto the diaper, no struggle, to get past me.

DD used to get tons of naked time. She gets less now only due to the peeing on the carpet thing. Prior to DS' birth, she would always tell me when she needed to pee and would either request a diaper or go straight to the potty. Sometimes there would be an accident-no big deal. These days though, she's just not telling me. I'm cool with that as there are lots of big changes around her. She still gets some naked time after shower and then a few minutes every time she takes a diaper off, it just isn't lasting as long.

[mamazee]

Originally Posted by mamaluvs

I agree that counting to 3 could come across as a threat, depending on the situation it sure feels like a threat. Here's my question though, at least in my scenario, DD is still getting some choice/power. If I just declare that I'm going to change her diaper and she is screaming fighting the whole time is that better or worse than giving her choices and then making her choose within a certain time frame?

I don't know if it's really power if in the end the diaper is getting changed no matter what. I'm not a stickler on much, but safety and health issues are those kinds of things often that just have to get done. I'll give you an example of how I do this in my own life. My younger dd doesn't mind riding in the car, but she doesn't like getting strapped into the car seat. So, I just put her in there, and while I do it, I say something like, "Oh, you don't like getting put in the car seat, do you? I wish it were safe to drive all snuggled up. I wish we could sit together all the time instead of having to get all strapped in." I keep talking and empathizing while I strap her in, but I really just strap her in if there's not really a choice involved. She really does respond better if I keep talking nicely about how great it would be if it were safe to ride around without having to worry about pesky car seats. Now, with tooth brushing when my older one was little (that was her thing), I kept looking for solutions to her unhappiness with it, as I thought something was probably out there, and I did finally find a toothbrush she liked. But I haven't found a way to make the baby not mind getting strapped into the car seat, but as it takes just a few seconds to strap her in and she's happy once I'm done strapping her in, it hasn't been as big a problem, either.

[Juvysen]

[trillian11]

My 20-mo does the same thing in terms of #1, repeating requests over and over after I've already given an answer and explanation. I end up asking him the question and he seems to kind of enjoy repeating what I'd said. In your example if he says, "Want popsicle", I'd ask, "Do we have any popsicles?" "Oh, the freezer doesn't have any popsicles?" "Where do we go to get popsicles?" "When do you think we can do that?" etc... eventually we just kind of have fun talking and the conversation naturally moves on.

For #2, I try to get him involved in some way. Like...asking him if he wants to use the wipe to help clean himself up, or with toothbrushing ask if he wants his turn first or my turn first. Of course it doesn't work all the time, so sometimes I just end up empathizing and doing it as quickly and painlessly as possible..."I know you don't want to do this, but we have to. Sometimes I have to do things I don't like either...[and then try to come up with a story]"

Carey

[Super_mommy]

Your first approach is a fair one, she will understand that something is unavailable and She will change the topic..