New NCSS support thread?? - Page 2

[Spiralshell]

I'm really glad to see this thread!
Nate is three months old, and never sleeps longer than three hours at a stretch. But these long stretches are during the day, and at night he never sleeps longer than an hour or two at a time. He sleeps in a cosleeper, then I pull him into bed to eat and usually he stays there until he wakes.
I am going back to work in 6 weeks, and I am concerned that I will be so dead exhausted that I will drive right off the road unless we start getting better sleep! So I want to try to start a better nighttime routine that will let him (and ME!) get longer better sleep.
We're going to try the NCSS ideas and see what happens!

(Alas, DP is ZERO help here. He is convinced that if only I would give him a great big bottle of formula right before bed, he'd sleep perfectly through the night. Sigh.)

[annemoonstar]

Hi All,
I'm really glad to see this thread is still going. Here is my update....

So last time I checked in DS and I had been trading sicknesses. Well, eventually he ended up with Croup--so we had three nights with even less sleep than usual and of course we dropped all attempts to change the sleeping pattern.

However, even during that time, and continuing now, I have started being much more structured about our night time routine. We play for about 45-60 minutes after I get home from work around 5ish. Then, we have been feeding him more solid food starting at around 6. After dinner, he either gets a bath or we just wipe his hands and face and then get into sleep diaper/PJ's. We say night night to daddy, aunt ,and the dog. Then we get on his futon bed (next to our bed), and look at books. Then lights down and sing our lullaby. At that point DS knows it's bedtime. Sometime he cries a little bit and fights it, other times he just rests his head on my shoulder and makes his sleepy time noises. Either way we walk until the song is done, then we lie down and I nurse him. Sometimes we have to repeat the last two steps (singing/walking and nursing), but more often now that's it. I do PPO everytime (since he has been feeling better). Most times it takes a few attempts, but then he goes down. And. Stays. Down. For sometimes 3-4 hours!!!!! I'm so hesitant to even say it at risk of jinxing things. BUT I think it's working!

For the last week to 10 days he actually has been sleeping MUCH better during the night too. We are getting at least 1 additional 3-4 hour stretch after he comes to bed with us, and one night he only woke to eat twice all night!

I'm not naive in thinking this will last forever. I'm sure we will regress again. But just the fact that we have had several nights now with quality sleep has made it all ok again. I feel like I can handle the regressions if I can just remember what it feels like to be on the other side!

So that's my update....sending good sleep vibes your way, and hoping ours stick around!

[bam]

I wound up stopping to work because of that issue and others for DS. We've made a huge lifestyle change b/c of the one income instead of two, but in the end, we could and I am happy we did. Maybe if you post in the Breastfeeding forum or here even a separate question on how moms who worked and co-slept handled it with pumping or ?

Sorry to hear DP is not on board. Here is a link about solid or formula before bed: http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/so...ids-sleep.html with the research titles so you can perhaps inform DP and http://parenting.ivillage.com/newbor...,,6fjb,00.html . I've had to do the same with DH, read and then present the evidence to him in a non threatening way. Now, he asks and I look for stuff if I haven't already done that reading and then we discuss it. If DH doesn't have time to look it up, then I ask him to differ to me until he can come up with evidence supporting his side.

Originally Posted by Spiralshell

I am going back to work in 6 weeks, and I am concerned that I will be so dead exhausted that I will drive right off the road unless we start getting better sleep! So I want to try to start a better nighttime routine that will let him (and ME!) get longer better sleep.
We're going to try the NCSS ideas and see what happens!

(Alas, DP is ZERO help here. He is convinced that if only I would give him a great big bottle of formula right before bed, he'd sleep perfectly through the night. Sigh.)

[bam]

I've resumed night weaning. Instead of PPO with a finger, I just turn my body so it becomes too much work for DS to keep the nipple in... another of Pantley's suggestions... b/c DS fights my hand off. However, if he tries to keep it in, I let him. He now let it go most of the time and turns around to go to sleep. That's when we nurse.

During the night, I nurse him after 6-8 hours of sleep and when the light comes through the curtains in the morning now. The rest I refuse by telling him that nursies are asleep until the light comes through the curtains. He still wakes up as many times as ever, but I have only nursed him once in the middle of the night. He protests, sometimes he hits me w/ or w/o his lovey, he had a tear but he didn't CIO, I wouldn't let him, he pretty much whines and usually the "nursies are sleeping" gets him to turn around and go to sleep. I'm still learning what works for now.

I have bought a paper lantern with a low wattage bulb and a dimmer. I will set it up on a timer so it only glows, no actual light to wake anyone up, and explain to him when it's on, it's okay to nurse. I will trigger it to go on after 6 hours he goes to sleep or after he nurses last which I will allow for when I go to bed if he wakes up during that time and stay on until he nurses or we get up. I can manually turn it off after he nurses. He loves the lantern and is old enough to understand what I'm saying so I'll report back when we start doing this. Crossing my fingers that instead of waking me up to see if it's time to nurse, that he'll look up and only come to me when it's on.

[Qestia]

Originally Posted by Leisha

Hello!
I'm currently re-reading NCSS and hoping to put it into practice very soon...
Our situation: dd is 16 months, co-sleeping and wakes up quite often during the night...
Because of the co-sleeping I haven't ever managed to actually COUNT the amount of times she wakes up (because I don't really wake up fully myself - which is great cause that means I'm relatively well-rested despite all dd's night wakings), but it's every 2 hours or so... at least.

She will sometimes sleep longer stretches, especially towards the morning (usually I can get up, and let her sleep another few hours).

DD won't fall asleep without nursing. She falls asleep while nursing, when she's fully asleep I can unlatch her from the breast. When she wakes up, she cries and I nurse her back to sleep...
When I'm not at home around her bedtime, or my parents babysit, it's a real struggle to get her to sleep (well, so I've heard ). It will literally take hours of her falling asleep in my mothers arms, she tries to put her in her crib, dd starts crying, my mom picks her up again, rocks her to sleep, puts her down, she starts crying, etc etc.


What I would like to do is: teach her to fall asleep on her own, to stay asleep on her own and hopefully to move to her own crib...

edit: oh yeah, lately it's taking reeeeeaally long for her to fall asleep, even with nursing. Maybe it's a phase or something but it can literally take 1-2 hours... I have a feeling she's not tired enough, or maybe she's overtired?? Another thing I'll have to figure out

Anyway I'll have to start with the sleep log things and take it from there I guess... we have a long way to go I think.


Good luck annemoonstart and everyone else trying NCSS

Haven't read the whole thread: but are you me? This is exactly where we're at right now with my 16 month old, except that DD does go to sleep with DH when I'm at my yoga night once a week. I'm going to get this book and will come back to the thread.

[bam]

Same here, when DS is alone with DH, no problem going to bed so long as he is pretty tired though. I forgot who said this, but it's so true... if you lived next to your favorite restaurant, wouldn't you eat there more often? LOL

Originally Posted by Qestia

Haven't read the whole thread: but are you me? This is exactly where we're at right now with my 16 month old, except that DD does go to sleep with DH when I'm at my yoga night once a week. I'm going to get this book and will come back to the thread.

--

Last night, DS woke up several times, but only asked for nursing twice; the rest he put himself back to sleep. Once I was able to soothe him back to sleep (midnight) and I complied at 4 am or so just b/c it had been 8 hours w/o him nursing. However, I woke up every time he stirred and all by myself. As Pantley says, we have to retrain ourselves to sleep through the night. In all, we're making good progress, but, oh boy, am I tired.

[veganfox]

Hello mamas. Glad to hear most of you are making progress. We are on the same train too. Although we had a rough week cause DS got sick and couldn't sleep due to congestion, now that he feels better I'm amazed at his progress. He has managed to put himself to sleep so many times (He's 8 months old). We went from waking up every hour to getting 3 hours stretches which is so much better. We'll keep working for something better than that but still, I'm happy we've seen some change. Just determining a bedtime routine has done wonders for us.

[bam]

Speaking of routine LOL Tonight, I was too pooped to give him a bath b/c DH was not home from a business trip yet and figured I'd just get the pj's and off to bed, but DS went straight to the bathroom and threw his toys in the tub LOL It's been a little over a week now and he isn't missing a beat. Too cute. So, he took a bath and I watched him frolic. My turn to go to bed now.

[t2009]

Hi all!
I'm glad to have found this thread... DH & I just started our NCSS "sleep plan" yesterday. We've been trying some of the techniques, but not with any rigor. So here we go...

DS is 10 months old. We don't cosleep (we used to, then he slept better in his crib, then he didn't & we tried cosleeping again but he was even worse in bed with us). Honestly, he's not a terrible sleeper but because we (usually me) have to go to him & get out of bed it's really exhausting. Our main hope is that he'll be able to fall asleep more or less on his own. I'm nursing or rocking or bouncing him to sleep now. He's heavy & I have wrist problems so this isn't sustainable.

Also, his new thing is waking up for hours at a time in the middle of the night. Nothing will get him back to sleep. He doesn't want to play & is usually sleepy but just gets more & more upset about not being able to sleep.

I logged his sleep the other night & discovered he only got 8 hours of nighttime sleep total! Definitely not enough (considering his naps are crazy inconsistent lately... but that's another battle for another day...).

Question for all of you about PPO... When do you pull off? I feel like I'm doing it too late. DS usually already has had his eyes closed for a few minutes but is still fidgeting. I feel like he's usually sucking pretty actively for a while after he closes his eyes but by the time he slows down his sucking pattern he's pretty close to being asleep. So I'm not sure I'm actually accomplishing anything. Any thoughts?

Thanks for reading!! And I look forward to connecting with you all about our progress!

[bam]

Originally Posted by t2009

Question for all of you about PPO... When do you pull off? I feel like I'm doing it too late. DS usually already has had his eyes closed for a few minutes but is still fidgeting. I feel like he's usually sucking pretty actively for a while after he closes his eyes but by the time he slows down his sucking pattern he's pretty close to being asleep. So I'm not sure I'm actually accomplishing anything. Any thoughts?

From the sound of it, I've been pulling out pretty much at the same time you do. I don't think there is a wrong and right except when child is totally asleep and unaware which doesn't constitute a change in sleep pattern. I feel it's a trial and error depending on you and the child. As you LO gets used to you pulling out, perhaps you could try earlier after a while and see the reaction you get.

If I pull out earlier, DS doesn't respond well to it and will cry; I found out by trial and error and by using the roll-off technique Pantley describes since he fights my hand off to do PPO, i.e. you roll your body away so the nipple would require work for the child to keep it in his mouth and he will release if it is too much work for him. If he is ready, he'll let go and roll over.

--


DS is 27 M and I really think it makes a huge difference for him and why we're progressing so fast. I'm able to talk to him before bed and b/c I know dad can put him to bed w/o nursing clearly, he is only having it b/c it's available and since it's supplemental nutrition to the solids which he loves, I can cut the nursing to going to bed, once in the night if absolutely needed and in the morning without too much resistance and so far I haven't had much.

So, it's only been a week of PPO and key word which was already established, but not enforced before a week ago. Last night DS went to sleep on the nipple... I didn't even notice, I was tired and dosing off myself. He slept 8 hours straight for the first time until I stirred around 4 am. I let him nurse partly b/c I needed the closeness (I miss it) and of his own accord went back to sleep. I have to cut that one out and want to do it slowly... now if only I could go back to sleep after that 4 am feeding I guess Pantley warned us, we'll feel more tired with the extra sleep; we have to adjust to our "new" sleeping pattern.

As far as the light, he just thinks it's pretty LOL I only have to say the keyword now, pat him if he lets me and he rolls over back to sleep. I'm still working on establishing it as a visual for him to know when he can nurse so he doesn't come to wake me for nursing. Meanwhile, he things the lantern is really pretty and loves to see it on LOL I'll report more on that later.

[BRmama]

Hi can I join this thread? I was looking for the old one when I stumbled upon this one. We just recently bought the book online so it should be here either Monday or Tuesday the latest.
Our situation is that ds wakes up two or more times per night and right now we're trying to transition him to his crib. I'm really hopeful that this will work for us and I can't wait to start putting everything into practice.

[merryns.mom]

hi! i'm joining in too. got the book last night and started reading. i'm working on the plan now for bedtime.

here's what our nights look like now with our 18 mo:
-she naps consistently at school from 11:30-2:00
-nurse to sleep in family bed between 9-10 (no real schedule/routine)
-she wakes 1-1.5 hours later, nurse back to sleep, i sneak to her bed for some rest.
-she wakes up 2 hrs later, she comes and gets in bed with me (her bed), nurse to sleep; i sneak back to my bed
-repeat, repeat.

we are all tired and sometimes i'm ill and touched out!
some nights she wakes up and is up for hours too tired to go back down.

so i'm willing to try anything but cio.

[bam]

merrynsmom,

you'll find plenty of stuff to help you in NCSS. I had a similar schedule, but staying in the same bed. We have progressed using the techniques in the book including a routine. Now he wakes less, once or twice per night which is manageable so I'm not pushing things too hard. One step at a time.

Things do get better

[t2009]

Originally Posted by bam

He slept 8 hours straight for the first time until I stirred around 4 am. I let him nurse partly b/c I needed the closeness (I miss it) and of his own accord went back to sleep.

Just wanted to chime in with an update because things have been going so well!

We started our NCSS plan at the beginning of the month and things slowly progressed for us. Our biggest challenge was putting him down when he was almost asleep & trying to soothe him to sleep in his crib. There were at least 4 or 5 VERY long nights of that... I had to have a lot of pep talks with myself in the middle of the night... "Less sleep now for more sleep later" (repeat).

DS stopped waking as often and was "easier" to get down after about a week or so. We went away for a long weekend last weekend & thought we were going to undo all our hard work and he didn't sleep great while we were away (we shared a room & did a mix of old habits & cosleeping). Well we came home & he just started to sleep. I nursed him, put him down while he was still awake & he was lights out! He woke up twice, I nursed him & put him down awake & same thing!

Last night he woke up once at 4:30 (well, he woke up before that too but fell back asleep on his own before I got to the door!) DH went in to see if he'd just fall back asleep without nursing & he did.

Now I feel like Bam ... I miss the nighttime cuddling! I'll continue to nurse whenever he wakes in the night (I'm guessing last night was an oddity). And who know, this could all end tonight. But I'm still amazed that he's able to essentially fall asleep by himself.

So for us the key things from NCSS have been:
-PPO
-being persistent in putting him down sleepy but awake
-a lovey!!

Good luck all! I'm sure I'll be back on when the next round of teething begins!

[veganfox]

Did this thread die?
I was just wanting to check in and share that NCSS works for us! After lots and lots of work, finally we went from waking up every hour to sleeping for 7 hours straight and waking up once or twice all night. Heaven!


My trick was to get DS to sleep with no help from me - with removing the nipple and then rocking him until he's sleepy. Then putting him in the crib and rubbing his back. At first, it took me 5-6 attempts until he really went to sleep but now it only takes one or two. Hope all the mamas and babies are getting some sleep. Sending good vibes to all.