Support for Family With Kids in Foster Care From CPS Mixup

[Nan'sMom]

A dear friend has children who were removed by CPS (wrongly) and are now in foster care. Any ideas on how to support the family? They have a lawyer who says they will get the children back but that these things take a long time. Currently they only get to see their children once every two weeks. The children are having a very hard time with it, they are only 6 and 8 years old, are getting sick, crying a lot, losing academic ground. The foster family only lets them call sometimes even though they are supposed to have daily calls.

We're going to send photos of us and our children and some small gifts and we're being supportive of the parents as best we can. Any other ideas? For now and also when the children are returned.

Side Note: We had been hoping to be able to offer to foster the children but for varied reasons (including having 3 small children of our own but other reasons as well) could not. I feel awful about this.

[Polliwog]

How long have the children been in care? The foster family may be limiting calls in their best interest, especially if they haven't been in care that long. Remember, you've likely only been hearing your friend's side of the events. The best advice I have, is for your friend to follow their case plan and do everything she's asked to do.

I'm sure this situation isn't easy for anyone involved.

[Nan'sMom]

Originally Posted by Polliwog

How long have the children been in care? The foster family may be limiting calls in their best interest, especially if they haven't been in care that long. Remember, you've likely only been hearing your friend's side of the events. The best advice I have, is for your friend to follow their case plan and do everything she's asked to do.

She's doing everything she's asked. To me it seems like an overzealous caseworker. It's all very sad. Hopefully to be resolved soon.

Thanks

[Ruthla]

I think all you can do is let your friends know you care about them and are thinking of them. This is nearly as stressful as losing children to death, and they may need the same kind of practical help that greiving families need- meals for their freezer and stuff like that.

[Nan'sMom]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

I think all you can do is let your friends know you care about them and are thinking of them. This is nearly as stressful as losing children to death, and they may need the same kind of practical help that greiving families need- meals for their freezer and stuff like that.

Thanks Ruthla. This sounds about right. Meals are a great idea. I have trouble thinking straight about it. It is so horrible and stressful on so many levels. I pray this is over soon.

[mykdsmomy]

Ruth is right. Meal, supportive calls, encouragement are all the things you can do right now.

CPS can be really screwed up at times.

The other thing you can do is to offer to write a letter (or get a group of friends together that are "model citizens" ie: pastors, teachers, etc to write letters to the judge regarding the parents character). The other thing I would really recommend your friend doing is trying to accomodate the foster parents. As hard as it is, if your friend can develop a good relationship with the foster parents (and if the foster parents are good people), they will maybe be able to also write a letter to the judge (I did this for a baby's mom one time and it helped).
One more thing....if at all possible, have your friend send her children's favorite toys, etc to the foster home. Make sure she is offering to send clothes, etc to "help" the foster family.
In a perfect world, the foster parents are supposed to support the birth family as a whole. If it looks like reunification will happen, then it's in the childrens best interest for the foster parent to truly keep the relationship between parent and child strong. (ie: not talking smack about the bio parents, offering encouraging words to the bio parents, etc).
HTH's some ((((hugs))))

[heatherdeg]

If there's no fault involved, it shouldn't take too long of a time. But agreed--tell her to work her plan diligently and to document anything that happens that gets in the way. So if she has (heaven forbid) a car problem that prevents her from making a scheduled appointment, keep the receipt for the repair (or get a note from the friend that fixes it with the time and date that they did)... or if she is ill, get a doctor's note (even if it's a walk-in clinic). Overzealous worker or not, she wants there to be no question in anyone's eyes that what she's saying is true and that she is trying to work her plan diligently. I've been sitting in a CPS courtroom monthly since April and you'd be surprised how much weight this carries.

I think sometimes birthparents and foster parents don't use the same lingo for a zillion reasons (cultural differences, education differences, just personality differences) and I would just try to walk her through not jumping the gun if a foster parent says something that the birthparent could take the wrong way. Encourage her to seek clarification--for everyone's sake. Especially the kids.

[MissinNYC]

It shouldn't take a long time if they are following their case plan, take heart. Just keep reaching out.

[Sierra]

The advice so far is what I'd recommend.

I did want to ask folks more knowledgeable out there...I had never heard of states using friends as "kin" until talking with some of you. Now I know some states will do that in some cases. Is that the kind of thing that could come into play here? Assuming this is temporary, is there a way to get licensed specifically for these kids in the "fictitious kin" concept?

I don't know. I don't have much if any information about kinships, but just thought I'd throw it out there.

Final thing: how is her legal representation? Is it adequate? Is the attorney experienced with the system and specifically with cases like hers? Is the attorney able to commit enough time to her case? Are there resources you could help her explore?

[Irishmommy]

If the case plan says daily phone calls, then the social worker needs to know that the foster parents are not allowing them. That's a big deal.

And I don't understand why, if the kids were removed wrongly (as in, they shouldn't have been), why there is a case plan? Wouldn't the kids just be sent back asap? We had a placement once for an overnight, but as soon as the workers realized the mistake (kids were taken as there was "no supervision", but there was, nasty neighbours, evening, better safe than sorry) the kids were returned. We didn't even have them 24 hours.

[Nan'sMom]

Originally Posted by mykdsmomy

The other thing you can do is to offer to write a letter (or get a group of friends together that are "model citizens" ie: pastors, teachers, etc to write letters to the judge regarding the parents character). The other thing I would really recommend your friend doing is trying to accomodate the foster parents. As hard as it is, if your friend can develop a good relationship with the foster parents (and if the foster parents are good people), they will maybe be able to also write a letter to the judge (I did this for a baby's mom one time and it helped).
One more thing....if at all possible, have your friend send her children's favorite toys, etc to the foster home. Make sure she is offering to send clothes, etc to "help" the foster family.
In a perfect world, the foster parents are supposed to support the birth family as a whole. If it looks like reunification will happen, then it's in the childrens best interest for the foster parent to truly keep the relationship between parent and child strong. (ie: not talking smack about the bio parents, offering encouraging words to the bio parents, etc).
HTH's some ((((hugs))))

Thanks very much. I just chatted with her and suggested this. Apparently the relationship between foster family and parents is quite good, family provides plenty of stuff, thanks them, etc. But they will mention to foster family that a good word from them would help a lot. And I offered to write a letter. Thanks so much for the helpful advice!

[Nan'sMom]

Originally Posted by Sierra

I did want to ask folks more knowledgeable out there...I had never heard of states using friends as "kin" until talking with some of you. Now I know some states will do that in some cases. Is that the kind of thing that could come into play here? Assuming this is temporary, is there a way to get licensed specifically for these kids in the "fictitious kin" concept?

I don't know. I don't have much if any information about kinships, but just thought I'd throw it out there.

Final thing: how is her legal representation? Is it adequate? Is the attorney experienced with the system and specifically with cases like hers? Is the attorney able to commit enough time to her case? Are there resources you could help her explore?

Thanks very much Sierra. Yes, I could maybe qualify as "kin" but for many reasons (can't go into all of them) we couldn't do it. Partly because we are very AP, don't vaccinate, etc. and a family lawyer I spoke to said given what went on in the case from the original CPS worker (like she was very upset about children sleeping in their own parents' room...and it appears she'd be the one qualifying us) we would be taking a pretty big risk (of her reporting us on manufactured claims). I know this is not true for ALL foster care, some my extended family is quite AP and has adopted, etc., but this is the advice I got. It was a horrible decision to make not to offer to take them. It also would be a LOT for us to have 5 small children and I'm not sure if we could realistically manage it.

I am doing all I can to help point her to resources, etc. though. She is quite actively involved in her case and also a smart woman, which I think helps. And she has asked a bunch of times if we can visit but the answer is no.

I think the lawyer is good. I've asked those questions and the lawyer seems ok from what I hear but I don't know for sure. It's hard to say but I sure hope so.

Thanks again. I really appreciate the "inside" advice from all of you. I know there are some wonderful and caring foster and adoptive parents on this board and it helps so much.

[Nan'sMom]

Originally Posted by Irishmommy

If the case plan says daily phone calls, then the social worker needs to know that the foster parents are not allowing them. That's a big deal.

And I don't understand why, if the kids were removed wrongly (as in, they shouldn't have been), why there is a case plan? Wouldn't the kids just be sent back asap? We had a placement once for an overnight, but as soon as the workers realized the mistake (kids were taken as there was "no supervision", but there was, nasty neighbours, evening, better safe than sorry) the kids were returned. We didn't even have them 24 hours.

The social worker knows about the phone calls. Seems like not intentional in a bad way on the part of the foster mom but that she is overextended and doesn't have time. Still not good for the children or parents but not malicious. The parents don't want to make too much of a fuss because the children are safe which is obviously not a given (and I know there are fabulous foster parents out there, many right here, but also some not as good and it's scary). They feel they need the foster mom on their side to advocate as well (and she is on their side).

I think it's that the CPS worker was overzealous. I.e., took anything that could be construed badly, exaggerated it, made stuff up and went to court. I know there are fair CPS workers out there but this one wasn't one of them.

Thanks very much for the advice. I'm incredibly appreciative to all of you for your advice and kind words. I will certainly pass on any relevant information and post when the children are returned.

[Nan'sMom]

One more thing--a few people had mentioned following a case plan. I don't think there is one yet. It's been several months. Things seem to be moving at a snail's pace. I know the parents would be willing to do whatever it took to get their children back.

[Fujiko]

The children have been removed for several months now?

[Sierra]

Originally Posted by Nan'sMom

One more thing--a few people had mentioned following a case plan. I don't think there is one yet. It's been several months. Things seem to be moving at a snail's pace. I know the parents would be willing to do whatever it took to get their children back.

I have never heard of a state or children's department that didn't have a timeline they must follow for legal or policy reasons. The timelines have a lot to do with court dates, and so forth, but in the state where I fostered at least, it definitely included the amount of time from being in care to a case plan for parents, etc.

If the state does not have a caseplan for the parents, and the state is not examining the validity of the case still, they are damaging the parent's ability to get their children back because the state will have a legal obligation to file for termination of parental rights after the children have been in care for 15 out of 22 months or something like that (been a while...can't remember the exact conditions). Thus, this is a HUGE issue.

They either need the case to be dismissed OR they need a caseplan. They only have two ways to get their kids back, and those are it.

The mom needs to be on top of this in a major way, preferably with the help of her attorney.

She should also ask for a chart or timeline of a case working its way through the department. She needs something that includes a list of the legally required court dates, and when they happen in the lifespan of the case. Preferably she'd get this from the children's department/state office, but if they won't give her information, she needs to go to her lawyer and find out what they know.

Every case that goes through the system has key dates when things can shift in how the case is going...i.e. how long it will take, in what manner it will resolve, etc. If she doesn't know when those are, she can't be strategic in influencing the direction things take. It's like volunteering to swim upstream with an arm tied behind your back.

[Sierra]

P.S. This isn't an educated legal opinion, but more a matter of observation as a foster parent:

If a family is going to fight the removal, on the grounds that the removal was wrongful, it is going to happen at the begining or end of the case. There are court dates very, very early on when the question of whether the children should be in care is up for discussion.

That door has been shut. You are talking about a case that has been in the system for MONTHS. If the court was going to order the children to go home on the basis that they were removed wrongfully, it would have happened much, much earlier.

In this "middle period," the courts are simply monitoring case progress and working on issues like visitations and stuff.

Note that a kid can go home in this "middle period," but that has to do with parental progress in the case plan...not fighting the removal.

Once a case goes on long enough, the department has to file for termination of parental rights. It's much, much harder to fight on the latter end from the standpoint of case validity (that is, it seems to me that most termination petitions that are denied in court at that point are denied more for reasons such as case mismanagement, such as parents not being given ample services to complete the case plan, and so forth), but I have seen cases in which parents have fought the termination on the grounds of wrongful removal.

[Nan'sMom]

Originally Posted by Sierra

Every case that goes through the system has key dates when things can shift in how the case is going...i.e. how long it will take, in what manner it will resolve, etc. If she doesn't know when those are, she can't be strategic in influencing the direction things take. It's like volunteering to swim upstream with an arm tied behind your back.

Sierra,

Maybe I am confused about what a case plan is. They do have court dates and have been in court a few times (with the judge making noises about moving things forward). At the beginning of the case the state ALREADY requested a TPR hearing date. I will ask my friend specifically about a case plan...maybe there is more her lawyer should be asking for? I'll ask her to ask her lawyer. It sounded like the lawyer was trying to get things sped up.

Sorry for the confusion. For some reason I thought it meant something like a plan where the parents are supposed to do certain things then the children get returned.

Thanks again!

[Polliwog]

The case must already have been adjudicated, that is having the judge determine that the children should remain in foster care. And I would assume that the parents would have attended at least one team planning meeting (which goes by different names in different places) which usually includes the social worker, supervisor, guardian ad litem, parents, foster parents, etc. That's when the case plan gets reviewed and everyone is updated about what everyone needs to do. Have your friends attended one of those? Those are usually every three months in the beginning and then move to every six months (timelines and procedures may vary.)

Sierra, the 15 of 22 months law doesn't necessarily mean that TPR has to be filed at that point. It just means that a plan for permanency has to be put in place. If the child's parents are actively working their case plan, then reunification could still be the goal.

And please make sure that the lawyer is one who is very familiar with family court and the workings of the child protection system. My soon-to-be adopted daughter's father used a different type of lawyer and following his advice really jeopardized his case.

[Sierra]

Originally Posted by Nan'sMom

Sierra,

Maybe I am confused about what a case plan is. They do have court dates and have been in court a few times (with the judge making noises about moving things forward).

Sorry for the confusion. For some reason I thought it meant something like a plan where the parents are supposed to do certain things then the children get returned.

Thanks again!

You are not confused. A case plan does lay out the expectations for the parents and the goal of the case, etc.

I am simply advising that in addition to pushing to make sure she gets her case plan as soon as possible, that she also get a timeline of which court hearings are being held when. The next logical question for her to look at will then be the purpose of each hearing. Most will be simply case reviews at this point, but there will be ones where bigger issues are looked at, such as permanency plans.

Originally Posted by Polliwog

Sierra, the 15 of 22 months law doesn't necessarily mean that TPR has to be filed at that point. It just means that a plan for permanency has to be put in place. If the child's parents are actively working their case plan, then reunification could still be the goal.

Ah, the things a person forgets. I've been taking a break for less than a year, and see where it gets me?!

Anyway, that being said, I wonder if this may be one of those things around which there are state laws or policies that further refine that timeline. If memory serves, and it may not, there was some particular period at which time termination had to be filed.

The point is, how can the parents be actively working their case plan if they don't even have one? Some items in a case plan aren't things that you can just one day *do.* They take services getting set up, scheduled, etc. It will be detrimental to the parents in terms of long-range planning if the state drags their feet. I know this was the reason that case plans are included in the timeline (policy? law?) of my former state. That way everyone is held accountable to getting resolution to the case as quickly as possible, both department and family.