Ugh, I need encouragement, success stories etc.. help!

[cmb123]

I have written this in this forum before like a year or so ago, but I need to hear other peoples experience again, because it helps.
I am a long time vegetarian (vegan for a long part of it) and last Oct (08) I made the switch to trying to start including meat again. It was great. It lasted for a while, but then slowly but surely I went back to being veg. Now, here I am again, constantly feeling like crap- bloated, gassy, no energy-heavier than ever. Sigh...
Former veg's tell me again how you did it, and how much better you feel so I can try again. Tell me all of the good stuff. Please. Thanks

[velcromom]

bumping for you cuz I know how important support from like-minded others can be.

[FernG]

I was not a real vegetarian, but my husband and I did try eating meat only 1-2x per week for a few years. We felt like crap - bloating, gas, anal fissures, a Crohn's diagnosis, weight gain, puffy eyes, blood sugar problems, increasing food allergies, migraines, constant sinus pain. Everything was cooked from scratch, so it wasn't the processed aspect of our diets.

Adding traditional meats and fermented foods as well as avoiding soy and grains has fixed everything thing. I can't tell you the difference in our health.

It's easiest for me to cook a slow-cooked meat and some sauteed veggies or a big salad with cheese. Can you think about what would be the easiest for you to cook and start by meal-planning those meals?

[gardenmommy]

Broth! Make some bone broth, and use that in your soups. I like to roast a chicken and use that for one meal, and then I take all the meat off the bones for using in other meals. I put the bones in the crockpot and let them simmer for a long time (usually about 24 hours). The broth is SO good in soups, for cooking rice, and other stuff. I find that to be the easiest way to ease back into good eating.

Also, I would say, go heavy on the veggies, heavy on the good fats (coconut oil, butter, avocados, etc.), moderate on the fruits, and lighter on the grains/starches/sugars. I find that eating that way gets rid of the gassiness, heavy feeling, and no-energy feeling. Good luck, it is hard to get back on the wagon sometimes!

[ursusarctos]

I sort of know what you mean. I was raised veggie and for the past couple years we ate meat maybe once or twice a week. Mostly I cooked vegetarian whole foods. It didn't *create* any health problems for us (we avoided soy and ate real butter, etc.) but since we started eating meat or eggs every day as per my TCM practitioner's suggestion I have felt so much better overall (more stable, more energetic, less "shaky"). I think DP could do fine on a veggie diet but not me. For many people being vegetarian just does not work. That's the case for me and apparently for you. I accept that about myself and I really don't have anything against eating ethically-raised meat, as I suspect is the case for you too.

But I still find myself slipping back into cooking vegetarian food, just because that is what I am used to. I have less skill cooking meat and still making my meals interesting. And I'm sure being veggie and considering meat unhealthy for most of my life has made its mark on my subconscious - I still have to consciously think about how much healthier I feel with meat and that's why I'm eating it, and I still feel a slight bit of resistance to eating "too much" meat - that is, more than what most people would consider a pretty small amount. I just have to keep rationally confronting my ingrained attitudes towards meat eating.

My TCM practitioner recommended 100-200 grams of meat (or fish, I consider that meat too) or 2 eggs every day. I have found that's easy for me to work in to my daily meals even if the main meals I cook are vegetarian, and it also keeps me feeling good.

Also, I agree with gardenmommy! Broth is a great way to get the goodness of meat and bones without it seeming "meaty" in the slightest. I just made a lovely lentil soup that would have been vegan without the chicken broth I made it in. You couldn't tell it was chicken broth, but it made the soup extra nourishing at the same time.

[kalliope999]

I don't have any real advice, but I wanted to say I can identify with you! (and ursusarctos). I actually just joined the forum because I've been reading many threads here related to vegetarians who have begun to eat animal products again (found the forum by a Google search for "ex-vegan"), and I've found them so helpful. Everyone here is so supportive, both on the veg and non-veg side, which is unusual on the web when it comes to diet. I just want to say that I'm right there with you, and I'm looking forward to hearing any new words of encouragement that people post.

I've eaten a vegan diet for 9.5 years, but I just bought my first eggs yesterday (directly from a local farm that pastures the hens except for in winter), and ate my first bit of egg this morning via a piece of zucchini bread. It was so hard to take the first bite, and I was convinced that I was going to keel over from a sudden egg allergy! My stomach gurgled a lot over the next hour, and I needed to talk down some (lots of!) anxiety, but I've been fine, and ate a second piece this afternoon. Whew!

I'm starting with eggs, and might add in some chicken broth (great suggestion!) or fish next, as an experiment. I'm still not sure about dairy, since I'm pretty lactose intolerant and I'm fairly sure the huge benefit I felt by going vegan was because of cutting out dairy.

Until the last year or so, I've actually felt great on the vegan diet. I've had very subtle oddities with how I've felt more recently, though, and so I'm experimenting to see if I feel better by adding some animal products back in. I can TOTALLY relate to your problem, ursusarctos, of having to re-train your brain -- I'm used to believing that animal products are very bad for us, and it's impossible for me to just do a 180 on that issue overnight. I've been a fan of Joel Fuhrman's Eat to Live, and his nutritional beliefs.

I'm really ambivalent about my decision, still, I guess. Although I'm so thankful for the new movement toward "happy meat" (aka humanely raised, pastured, etc), and it is what is allowing me to even consider going back to meat, it's something I would have totally rolled my eyes at just a short while ago (privately! since I was never a judgmental vegan -- my husband is an omni!). But I'm working on finding peace with the decision, I hope.

One of the things that influenced me to make this change, in addition to seeing if I can improve how I feel, was reading In Defense Of Food. Pollan's point about us not knowing everything about nutrition & specific nutrients yet, and to just eat food, really made sense to me. I'm always saying stuff about how people need to just eat vegetables instead of taking vitamin supplements, because we still don't understand all of the micronutrients and phytochemicals that help us to assimilate each food. So then I started thinking, even though the experts always SAY that you can get 100% of what you need on a veg diet by eating well and supplementing a little (I took a multivitamin, B12, Vit D in winter, and an algae-based DHA by V-Pure, which is probably why I felt so good for so long), what if there are other components we haven't discovered yet that are only in animal products? Coupled with the fact that even predominantly plant-based peoples ate small amounts of animal products, I just started to get less than 100% confident in the long-term adequacy of a strict vegan diet. On the other hand, I think some people can do well as veggies if they include dairy and/or eggs, since the Southern Indians do it, and I've known lots of lacto-ovo vegetarians over the years.

But anyway -- Even for the few years that I was still a meat eater after I moved out on my own after college, I rarely cooked meat for myself because it always grossed me out a bit (I could probably count on one hand the number of times I've cooked meat after age 18 or so). I ate meat or seafood when dining out, which I did a lot of in those days. So my meat & fish cooking skills are non-existent at the moment!

I'm hoping to transition to something like a Mediterranean diet, which is consistent with my current ideas of "healthy diet" even while being non-vegetarian. I plan to check out a couple of Mediterranean Diet cookbooks, and some Mark Bittman books, since he eats a veggie-heavy diet, to help with ideas and planning. I know that most traditional fooders on this site seem to eat an NT-style diet, but that seems too extreme a change for me from where I'm at right now, mentally & psychologically.

I'm sorry this got so long -- it's just my enthusiasm for finally finding a supportive community in which to discuss the issue! Thanks!

-Nicole

[cmb123]

Originally Posted by FernG

IWe felt like crap - bloating, gas, anal fissures, a Crohn's diagnosis, weight gain, puffy eyes, blood sugar problems, increasing food allergies, migraines, constant sinus pain.

I KNOW it the grains for me absolutly, but I have such a hard time giving them up even though I want to- its' like drugs. I know they make me feel like crap, I don't want to eat them, then next thing you know I'm sitting there eating a bowl of cereal!

[ursusarctos]

kalliope999! I love this forum - it's so informational and respectful at the same time!

I totally agree with the point you made (from Pollan) that getting nutrients from whole foods is best. It's so true that vitamins, phytochemicals, etc. interact in amazingly complex ways, the majority of which are unknown to us. Good luck with adding animal products to your diet. I hope it does some good for you!

[laohaire]

Originally Posted by cmb123

I have written this in this forum before like a year or so ago, but I need to hear other peoples experience again, because it helps.
I am a long time vegetarian (vegan for a long part of it) and last Oct (08) I made the switch to trying to start including meat again. It was great. It lasted for a while, but then slowly but surely I went back to being veg. Now, here I am again, constantly feeling like crap- bloated, gassy, no energy-heavier than ever. Sigh...
Former veg's tell me again how you did it, and how much better you feel so I can try again. Tell me all of the good stuff. Please. Thanks

I'm an ex-veg, started eating meat around the same time as you.

I wasn't clear from your post where the problem lies. Why did you go back to being veg? Didn't like meat? Habit? Didn't feel good on meat? Too expensive? Have ongoing ethical objections to it? Not comfortable cooking it?

And, what ELSE are you eating? While meat (or lack thereof) could be the cause of you feeling like crap, it could very well be something else as well. Just for example, perhaps you are gluten intolerant. Or have other food sensitivities or allergies.

Anyway, I think if you tell us more details maybe we can help you more.

[cmb123]

Originally Posted by laohaire

I'm an ex-veg, started eating meat around the same time as you.

I wasn't clear from your post where the problem lies. Why did you go back to being veg? Didn't like meat? Habit? Didn't feel good on meat? Too expensive? Have ongoing ethical objections to it? Not comfortable cooking it?

And, what ELSE are you eating? While meat (or lack thereof) could be the cause of you feeling like crap, it could very well be something else as well. Just for example, perhaps you are gluten intolerant. Or have other food sensitivities or allergies.

Anyway, I think if you tell us more details maybe we can help you more.

All of the above
I do like meat (ok I LOVE meat), the whole veg*n thing is definately a habit, and sort of a comfort zone. It really is a mental thing too. I love animals, I work with animals, I feel bad eating them. I feel less bad when I can get meat from a good source but that is so expensive- then I don't want to but the grocery store factory farmed stuff, because I feel like I don' t want to support that industry.
I definately have food intolerences and lots of stuff makes me feel crappy, like grains, beans and basically everything I'm living on now
I feel stupid even saying it. I know how much better I feel if I stick to a more meat, veggie, fruit diet- but I keep falling for the idea that I can achieve feeling well on a veg diet (which I haven't yet in 13 years).
It's just good when I can hear from others who have been through the same thing and hear confirmation that there is light on the other end.

[wholewheatchick]

I just recently stopped being vegetarian. Thanks for starting this thread, because I was beginning to waver, too! For me, the biggest difference I have noticed is that I have so much more energy when I eat meat just a few times a week, and full fat dairy every day. It's truly amazing!

But I have a hard time cooking meat: not that I don't want to. Actually, I was surprised to discover that I don't mind it in the least, and actually find it quite fascinating to poke and prod the muscles and tendons of an entire chicken, or feel the marrow in beef bones! I just feel bad for my husband, because I am definitely still trying to figure out how to cook meat. I never cooked meat once I left for college, and I rarely did anything beyond boneless skinless chicken breasts at my parents house. So staring at the entire chicken and figuring out what to do with it, or attempting to make broth has been a whole other experience.

My gut also feels better when I reduce the amount of beans to only one serving per day, and the only soy I eat now is soy sauce. My tummy likes that better, too.

I agree, veg cooking and eating can be a habit that is hard to break. It is just so hard for me to wrap my mind around the fact that fat is good for me! At least it tastes good.

[gardenmommy]

I had the same problem of not knowing how to cook meat. What has helped me is getting on different cooking sites to figure out how different cuts of meats are best prepared. I also enjoy watching cooking shows, but don't have much time to spend on them. I've tried to figure out how to cook the meals we really like, and sometimes that just takes trial and error, you know? MDC is a great resource for cooking techniques, too.