What the heck just happened? (Kindergarten, bullying, long) UPDATE #9

[limabean]

My DS is in kindergarten, and one of his classmates lives in our condo complex. The boys have gotten together to play a couple of times and seem to play well together. But this morning as we were walking to the car, the other boy ran up to say hi and he grabbed DS's backpack and was pulling him around hard, while my DS said, "Stop." I saw that same behavior yesterday at drop-off, where the boy was pulling on DS's sweatshirt hood and pulling him around (like swinging him back and forth kind of, so DS had to stumble from side to side). Today, DS fell down hard, skinning his knee, and started crying. The boy's grandma, who doesn't speak English, and I rushed over and I held DS while the grandma said something to the boy (I don't speak her language, but the tone sounded like she was telling him to apologize). The boy looked at my DS and said, "Big boys don't cry" in a pretty mean tone. I was completely shocked! I wasn't sure if DS heard because he was crying pretty hard, so I just said, "Come on honey, let's get in the car" and as we were walking the boy again said, "Be a big boy instead of crying" and I just couldn't help it, I said, "It's okay to cry when we're hurt." Telling him not to cry when he was the one who just hurt him was just infuriating to me -- to hurt someone and then make fun of them for acting hurt just seems so mean.

We drove to school and just after we parked, we walked past this boy's car and the boy looked away. DS said, "He just looked away. I think that means, 'Don't look at me, I already said I'm sorry,' so I think he really is sorry and we just didn't hear him." I don't like that he's making excuses for this kid's behavior. I watched the two boys like a hawk as they played for the 5 minutes until their classroom door opened. They seemed okay while another little girl was playing with them, but once she left this boy backed DS into a corner and started throwing wood chips directly in his face, hard, while my DS just stood there with his hands over his face. I marched over and said, "Hey, NO wood chips!" and the boy said okay and walked away. The grandma didn't see the whole wood chips incident -- she was talking with another mom.

I had my DS come sit with me and told him that friends don't hurt each other, and asked if this has happened before and he said no. Then DS wanted to get up and play with a girl classmate, and as he went over to play with her, this boy made a beeline for my DS again and blocked his path, as my DS said, "I'm trying to play with Jenny! Please move!" The teacher opened the door then, so that was the end of that.

I don't know what the deal is with this kid today -- I've never seen him act like this, and DS said that usually he's a nice friend. But seeing how my DS made excuses for him in the school parking lot, I don't know if my DS is representing things as they really are or as he'd like them to be. So I told the teacher about it when she opened the door so that she could keep an eye on it today, and as I walked away I heard her call the boy's name so I know she talked to him. Should I do anything else or just see if anything else happens?

[LionTigerBear]

I don't know but I just wanted to give you a hug. My oldest son is five and he's like that, too-- just very sweet and cooperative, even compliant, not very assertive. He would be an easy target for a bully. This is one reason why I am keeping him home right now. Not helpful, I know. Hope you guys can work it out.

[Kirsten]

That sucks - I'd be furious too. I'm glad you talked to the teacher so she can watch for it. I'd definitely talk to ds about standing up for himself. And I don't think it is wrong in the least (you said "I couldn't help myself; I said..." to step in when it is warranted.

[limabean]

Originally Posted by Kirsten

That sucks - I'd be furious too. I'm glad you talked to the teacher so she can watch for it. I'd definitely talk to ds about standing up for himself. And I don't think it is wrong in the least (you said "I couldn't help myself; I said..." to step in when it is warranted.

Thank you. It's so hard to know when you're stepping on other parents' toes and when it's okay to say something. I did talk to DS in the car on the way to school, and he came up with saying, "Stop it, I don't like that" when the boy pulls on his clothes. We practiced a couple of times, and actually the boy did start the clothes-pulling again at school (before the wood chips thing) and I hung back slightly to give DS a few seconds to respond on his own, and he did stand his ground and say "Stop it, I don't like that" in a forceful voice, and the boy did stop. I was proud of DS, and he looked at me right afterwards and I gave him a big smile and a thumbs-up -- he looked really proud of himself too.

[LionTigerBear]

BTW, my second son is the bully type-- in case you want that perspective. My second son is usually a sweetie, but where my first son is implosive, my second son is explosive. So my first son deals with stress by crying but my second son will lash out instead. I realized he tends to act more controlling and bullying in response to food reactions like dairy products and sugar, too. Most parents don't make that kind of connection, which is too bad. Anyway, when my son does act like that, I certainly don't mind other parents or authority figures being firm and assertive with him in enforcing other people's boundaries. He needs to know it's not acceptable. Of course, I work with him about it at home as well.

[lotusdebi]

I think it's okay to say something, and not worry about the other parent's toes. My kids tend to play rough - especially my older son. Some kids enjoy rough play, some don't. My older son can't tell when someone isn't enjoying the rough play, and I'm not always on top of things with him (since I'm watching his brother) so I absolutely expect that the other child or his/her parents will step in and declare boundaries when they feel it's necessary.

[One_Girl]

It sounds like the child doesn't have a clear sense of boundaries and he accidentally knocked your child down then told him what he is told by his parents when he cries. The school incident is troubling. Could he have been upset and scared by what his parents may do to him when his grandma tells them what happened. I know this seems strange, but my dd's friend is spanked pretty harshly at home and when they first started having play dates she got very angry after she accidentally hurt my dd. Once she started playing with us more regularly and realized that I wouldn't tell her dad anything that would make her unsafe she became a very empathetic and caring child. I think it is good that you intervened and told the teacher, but I don't think you should assume that bullying is occurring at this point.

[SunshineJ]

If you haven't seen this behaviour from the other child before, he may just have been having a really off day, getting ill, etc. It most certainly does not excuse the behaviour, but it does affect my perception of how I would handle the situation. If sometime in the next day or two the boy begins the same behaviours - like grabbing your son's clothing, etc. I would nicely but firmly tell the child that it looks like he's been having some trouble remembering to treat his friends nicely. I would also let him know that ds will be available to play next week, but until Monday he needs to leave him alone. Basically letting the other child know that he's now being put on notice for behaviour that is not acceptable, but doing so in a calm, gentle and non-invasive manner.

[limabean]

So yesterday nothing really happened between the two boys. The other boy did act kind of strange toward my DS a couple of times, at one point copying him in what looked to me like an intimidating/mocking way rather than a silly way, but that's fairly normal, I think, and at least it wasn't physically violent. My DS did stand up for himself and speak in a firm voice saying that he didn't want to play a certain game that the boy was trying to get him to play, so I was proud of him for that.

Today, however, DS told me that while he and the other boy were at the listening center in the classroom, the boy grabbed his neck. I asked him to show me exactly what the boy did, and my DS put his hand on my throat and said, "He did this and squeezed hard." I asked what happened right before the boy grabbed his throat and he said, "I was talking to him and he told me to be quiet, but I didn't really hear him and kept talking to him, and that's when he grabbed my neck." So it sounds like the boy was annoyed that my DS wouldn't stop talking to him (he does tend to do that), but I don't know why he's suddenly lashing out violently when he never has before.

I asked DS if he told anyone about the neck-grabbing when it happened and he said, "I sort of forgot to." I told him that if anyone touches him in a way he doesn't like at school again, he's to immediately stop what he's doing and tell the teacher. I didn't learn about this throat-grabbing thing until after school today, so I just e-mailed the teacher. I just feel sick, thinking about my kid at school all day dealing with this stuff.

[limabean]

ETA to my last post: I also e-mailed a couple of moms of kids who seem to have fun with my DS to see if they want to get together outside of school. I think part of the reason my DS runs up to play with this boy at school is because he's just a familiar face, since he plays with him at school regularly and sees him every once in a while in our condo complex. So hopefully seeing these other kids outside of school will give him that same recognition response when he sees them at school, causing him to stop migrating towards this same boy all the time. Any other tips for handling this? I haven't heard back from the teacher regarding my e-mail yet.

[racheepoo]

This is kind of like the pattern my pill is experiencing right now. He's also 5, and also very sweet and compliant. This one boy bullies him, and then will back off when the teacher notices or when pill says something, and then start again the next day. They are also in the same afterschool care so it's even more noticeable.

My point is if that you are noticing, and if your ds is telling you about certain incidents, it is happening way more frequently than you might imagine. I would really write a note to the teacher each and everytime you are told, and try to set up a dialogue to discuss this with your son.

I'm sorry...this is really hard, isn't it?

[One_Girl]

I taught my dd to yell "STOP" really loudly if someone hurt her at school. It sounds like there may be something else going on based on your update and I definitely encourage you to consider doing this. In a classroom it is hard to always see everything, even if there are small ratios, because there is so much going on. When a kid is loud and they sound like they need help the teacher is more aware of the problem and can react faster.

[AllisonR]

Sounds like some fundamental change in this boys behaviour. Maybe something traumatic has or is happening to him? His reactions are bizarre - basically to become the bully to your DS. A once off incident would not worry me. Everyone has a bad day sometimes. But the progression to hitting, verbal abuse and now choking - something serious needs to be done. I would not email the teacher; I would go in and talk with her and develop a concrete plan to stop this now.

[limabean]

Originally Posted by AllisonR

I would not email the teacher; I would go in and talk with her and develop a concrete plan to stop this now.

I'm going to talk to her today. I e-mailed her because it was after school on Friday and it was the quickest way to make her aware of the incident, since direct communication would have to wait until today. She didn't reply though, so maybe she doesn't check her e-mail on the weekends, or maybe she'd rather respond in person. But yeah, I didn't plan for e-mail to be the only way I communicated with her about this.

[limabean]

So I talked to the teacher yesterday. She hadn't seen my e-mail over the weekend. She seemed to take it seriously and said that she'll talk to the boy (I think his parents should be told, but she didn't mention that and I forgot to). She also said that she'll make sure they're not in the same small group, and told my DS two of the same things I did: to tell her immediately if a classmate hurts him, and to give this friendship a break for a while and play with other kids.

Yesterday went a lot better for my DS -- he agreed to take a break from this boy, and seemed to easily find other kids to play with and had fun. I also made plans with the moms of two boys that seem very nice to go to the park after school later this week, so hopefully that will help increase DS's familiarity with other kids besides this one boy. Here's hoping that things continue to improve!

[Althetrainer]

Hope things going easier for your little guy

I feel for ya. My little man is 7 and he's pretty much the same quiet and compliant type of kid.

I remember an incident when DS was in grade one. One of his friend bullied his other friend. The three of them attended the same class. I believe the story began with their moms didn't get alone. The two boys participated in the same sports and they were constantly compared to each other, by their mothers. The stronger boy began to bully the other one. It became so bad that the poor kid wanted to run home after school because he was told if he didn't run the bully boy would "get him". The whole thing went to the principal but before it was resolved the little boy's mom decided to move him to a different school. That was the end of the story. Since my son was friend to both of the boys I got to hear the whole story. it really saddened me to see how bullying begins younger each new generation.

I believe you have done the right thing to hand it over to school officials. All you can do is to help your child to stay confident at the same time allow the school take care of the situation. Best of luck!

Al