For those in "anti" UC families/areas...did having someone witness the birth help your "case"?

[1babysmom]

We had a UC with DD2. Pretty much everyone except for my MIL (who is very supportive of everything we do and thinks it's awesome!) thinks it was an accident, as I had chosen to have a MW for some prenatal care from 24 weeks on...but the UC was planned. They all just think we didn't call her in time.

Anyway...we're planning our 2nd UC and I'm kinda thinking I want my mom there. Mostly to help with my DD's (she was there for DD1 last time- even though I labored in the middle of the night DD stayed awake the WHOLE time!- but missed the birth by 5 minutes because she thought it was going to be longer since I was laboring so quietly so she started to drive home with DD), but also because I think this time I wouldn't mind her being at the birth. But I was thinking that maybe, as a bonus, having her there to witness the process and see that it's SO normal and natural and that DH and I know what we are doing, that maybe it'll help keep people off my back. I know it doesn't matter what others think, but I'm SO not confrontational and hate people giving me crap about it (it just makes me feel crummy) and I kinda fear the comments we'll get after this one, when people will probably figure out that it was planned (if they don't, wow. ). I have a feeling we're going to have people telling us we were "just lucky" the first time or treating us as if we were just overconfident and it was stupid to try something like that again. I mean, just basing this on what we heard after DD2's birth... This is all just a guess, but I figure my mom (who is pretty receptive and has never really judged us for our choices, despite many being very different from hers) could be beneficial in those cases because she can testify to it NOT being some freak accident that we just happened to get lucky by surviving. I know she'll stand up for us regardless, but I just think it would be eye-opening and educational for others to know that someone actually witnessed it and saw it was okay (no, GOOD!).

My MIL made the very end of my last birth (like the last 1 minute, literally) and I eventually told her that it was planned and she said she thought so, and she is definitely helpful on my IL's side. However, that family is also FAR more natural minded than MY family. That's why I think having my mom witness it could be so good for my side of the family (none of them, even my mom (though she's probably the closest), are very natural minded, at all). ALL of my family (parents, siblings, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc) live in this area so we all see each other a lot...a LOT.

Anyway, all that to basically just ask...did anyone in a similar situation find that having had someone "witness" their UC kept people off their back at all? Or helped others realize it's a very awesome thing? I'm thinking that if I'm comfortable with my mom there, it'll be special anyways, but the "witness" thing would just be an added bonus.

[Serenyd]

I don't want to rain on your parade, so to speak, but I don't feel like having people around who might bring unwanted fear and negativity into my birthing environment is wise. I had to weigh this carefully last time I UC'd, because my mom wanted to be there, but she was also very much against UC and very worried about what might happen, and I felt like it would be too much stress for everyone involved to have her there. This is my experience. Use your best judgement to tell you what to do.

[1babysmom]

Originally Posted by Serenyd

I don't want to rain on your parade, so to speak, but I don't feel like having people around who might bring unwanted fear and negativity into my birthing environment is wise. I had to weigh this carefully last time I UC'd, because my mom wanted to be there, but she was also very much against UC and very worried about what might happen, and I felt like it would be too much stress for everyone involved to have her there. This is my experience. Use your best judgement to tell you what to do.

Well that's the thing...I'm the same way with people around me. But I've been feeling like I WANT my mom there, and like I said just having her be a "witness" for others is just the added bonus. She won't be there if I decide I don't want anyone there.

My mom will say nothing about being at the birth unless *I* ask her. She'll be thrilled if I do but won't say a word if I don't.

[Serenyd]

Originally Posted by 1babysmom

Well that's the thing...I'm the same way with people around me. But I've been feeling like I WANT my mom there, and like I said just having her be a "witness" for others is just the added bonus. She won't be there if I decide I don't want anyone there.

My mom will say nothing about being at the birth unless *I* ask her. She'll be thrilled if I do but won't say a word if I don't.

Hope it works out for you! Let us know how it goes.

[1babysmom]

Originally Posted by Serenyd

Hope it works out for you! Let us know how it goes.

Thanks!

btw, I updated my OP to clarify after your post. I agree that there is a difference in having someone there because you WANT them there, so I wanted to make that clear. Thanks for bringing that up!

[reducereuserecycle]

the witness does not technically have to "watch."

they can just be there on location and be able to write an affidavit (and get it notarized) that the baby was born alive on whatever date/time. that should work in some states.

and yes, imo, having a "witness" does help your "case"

[AustinMom]

Ask her to be there if you need her, and if you need her to leave because of a bad mojo in the atmosphere, ask her to run to the store, or get a meal or two prepared in the other room, or just ask her to leave, that you need very very personal space.

I think it was Ina May who said if you wouldn't want the people there to watch you have sex, it won't be wise for them to be there while you give birth. I could be wrong, but it was something along those lines.

Happy Birthing!

[MittensKittens]

IME, having a witness would help. I UC-ed solo last year with no witnesses, except my then two year old DD. It was a bureaucratic nightmare. I ended up having DNA analysis to prove my son was mine, and I didn't steal him from somewhere (despite paperwork from OB confirming pregnancy, and an ultrasound, and witnesses saying they had seen me pregnant). For my next birth, I will definitely have a witness, either a midwife (who could show up immediately PP and say she attended the birth) or a friend or relative.

[iggymom]

what about bringing up the last birth, and letting your mom know that the UC was actually planned? From there you can gauge her reaction, give her time to absorb it, then let her know you are planning to do it again this time, and that you would like her to be there as a support person if she is comfortable with it.

Good Luck either way

[1babysmom]

Originally Posted by iggymom

what about bringing up the last birth, and letting your mom know that the UC was actually planned? From there you can gauge her reaction, give her time to absorb it, then let her know you are planning to do it again this time, and that you would like her to be there as a support person if she is comfortable with it.

Good Luck either way

She actually probably already knows...she knows we haven't had any MW appts this pregnancy, for example. I'm not worried about her reaction at all, though (hence the reason I'm actually comfortable with her at the birth for more than just her being there). I just figure that since she doesn't share all my views (doesn't mean she doesn't SUPPORT them, though, KWIM?) it would be even more helpful because the "naysayers" will be able to relate to HER more than they will ME, and if they her positive stories from HER it'll mean more to them? I know she told people that my last birth was pretty cool and even my grandma (one of my biggest oponents to homebirth at first, though she was pretty proud of me after the birth), but like I said my mom JUST missed the birth and I think if she was able to experience the whole thing (as long as I continue to be comfortable with her there throughout the process) it would mean a lot to everyone else, if that makes sense.

As far as who's there, like I said, she definitely won't be there (or at least where I'm at) if I'm not comfortable. My mom and I are very alike and would rather not be around unless we're flat out asked, so I don't worry about that at all. My MIL, on the other hand, has been at both of my births (well, close with the last one, like I said), and she's NOT who I would have chosen to be there so I definitely know what it's like to have someone there who you didn't really want there in the first place. I mean, it didn't ruin my experience or anything, but still...

[Xiaohua]

Originally Posted by MittensKittens

IME, having a witness would help. I UC-ed solo last year with no witnesses, except my then two year old DD. It was a bureaucratic nightmare. I ended up having DNA analysis to prove my son was mine, and I didn't steal him from somewhere (despite paperwork from OB confirming pregnancy, and an ultrasound, and witnesses saying they had seen me pregnant). For my next birth, I will definitely have a witness, either a midwife (who could show up immediately PP and say she attended the birth) or a friend or relative.

Yes, I know this is not the OP main concern for having a "witness" at the birth, but can be a very important aspect of UC births in some locations. I was in a similar situation with my first UC (US citizen living abroad, local officials refused to issue birth certificate) and the US Embassy had the same concerns - that we'd stolen the baby from somewhere and were just pretending to have actually given birth. They requested DNA testing also.
For our second UC, we still didn't have a birth certificate, but we brought our midwife along as a "witness" and she swore an oath to the consular officials that everything we were saying was true. We let them assume she had actually attended the birth, but in reality we did not call her until well after the birth. She never actually stated that she had attended the birth, just that she was the midwife and was verifying out statements.

Having a "witness" may be really useful if you are anticipating problems registering the birth. As for the other reasons you brought up - I'd say if you want her there regardless then go for it. If your sole reason is to have her help convince others that this is/was a rational, safe choice... well, I don't know your family and friends but unless she has their utmost respect and admiration they may not care what she thinks. Maybe they'll think she's as crazy as you are!


Serena

[MittensKittens]

Serena,

Sorry to hear the same thing happened to you. I am also an expat, also dealing with the local embassy, and I am sorry to hear that there might actually be a "policy" in place to request DNA tests for UC births?

I asked whether coming in pregnant and having my picture taken and sign by embassy officials would be enough of a proof of pregnancy next time round. They said that no, I needed to give birth at the hospital or at the very least call a doctor to attend my homebirth...

I know that this is not the OP's main concern, and neither should it have to be. But it can be the reality, and it's something I sometimes feel the need to warn people about

[Xiaohua]

Originally Posted by MittensKittens

Serena,

Sorry to hear the same thing happened to you. I am also an expat, also dealing with the local embassy, and I am sorry to hear that there might actually be a "policy" in place to request DNA tests for UC births?

Not trying to hijack this thread, but I had to respond.

Mittenskittens - Wow, so you are also a US citizen living abroad and they requested DNA testing for you too? We actually did not have to do it; guess we got lucky! This was in 2003 (our first UC) and after the birth I called the Embassy to see what the procedure was if there was no locally issued birth certificate. Only hospitals here have authority to issue these, and my hospital was mad because I deliberately did not show up for the birth, so to spite me they refused to issue the certificate. I assumed that there must be some policy at the Embassy to deal with this type of thing, but when I called them up the lady on the phone kept saying "I don't know. I just don't know. You mean your husband isn't a doctor? And you had a homebirth with NO ONE ELSE THERE? You mean there isn't a single other witness?" She just couldn't believe it. Finally I asked "Well, what is the procedure for this kind of situation - just tell me what to do!" and the lady said "This has never happened before!" Then she decided that DNA testing would be the only way to verify the baby was actually mine. When I asked what that involved I got the whole story - several hundred $, must use State Department approved lab back in the US, wait several weeks for results etc. I couldn't believe it. It was the beginning of the huge SARS epidemic, we were in the middle of Beijing and we didn't want to wait a long time to get passport and travel home. I asked again if there was any other way, and she said they just had to be SURE the baby was really mine before they could register the birth.

So dh and I just took our chances - took the baby, the prenatal paperwork including a NST from the day he was born, the ER paperwork from the night he was born (no midwife that time, so we went to the ER - less than 2 hours after the birth to get the baby checked out) and showed up at the Embassy. I did not meet the lady I has spoken with on the phone, but a very nice gentleman had a look at us, our baby and our documents and said "You're good. I'm convinced" and he issued a passport on the spot. Took less than half an hour.

I am so sorry you went through all that. Your sworn statement should have been enough. What a tough thing, to know that unless you have some kind of birth attendent next time, you will have to go through the same hassles - not just you, anyone.

We are comtemplating our third UC now (due in July) and you can believe that medical issues/safety are only part of the things we consider when making our birth choices. In most places registering the birth is not an issue, but I think everyone should be aware, especially if you are not in the US, especially for US citizens abroad.

[ursusarctos]

Originally Posted by MittensKittens

I asked whether coming in pregnant and having my picture taken and sign by embassy officials would be enough of a proof of pregnancy next time round. They said that no, I needed to give birth at the hospital or at the very least call a doctor to attend my homebirth...

I have no words, just

[guest8990]

my family thinks we have a midwife, and she wont be at the birth because we dont feel she is needed. for some reason, this makes them feel safer... this is our first baby. next time however, there will be no "comfort lies" my mother, grandmother, and 16 yr old sister will be there, along with my husband.
i have a aunt(who tries her hardest to get away from the family) that was a NICU nurse, and is now a labor and delivery supervisor.. she thinks she knows it all man.. and the whole reason they think we have a midwife is because they kept dragging her and their coworkers into insisting we didnt have prenatal care, these people knew about prenatal care! anywhooooo... sorry rant.

by having them there, we hope that they will see that it really is between God and us, and that it is safe. i do get confrontational when people tell me i am wrong about something i believe strongly in, and the first person that acts as if we were "lucky to have survived it" will get a uber long lecture filled with hatred for the medical world and then they shant cross me again hehe. right... but yes, i willl probably be a B*tch.. but for now i am sticking with- this is what we believe is right, you had your chance to bring babies into the world your way, now please respect how we choose to welcome ours. if you cannot respect our wishes, we do not expect you to take part. i use that line now, on those who think we are simply crazy on just having this baby at home with a midwife, they will flip a lid when they find out its planned to not have anyone there.
i did put together a binder full of information on what to do when something goes wrong, how to fix a emergency, when to go to the hospital, every single complication that could arise, and how to remedy it.. along with a letter i wrote explaining our wishes, reasoning, and asking that if they could not be respectful and comply with our wishes, they could leave, no hard feelings.... this will be out on the table for them to flip through when they get scared or doubtful, and i will probably carry it around with me shortly after, so that the ones i dont want to argue with can read it for themselves and realize that this was planned, with every back up plan we could think of, and we didnt survive it, we did so much more. i also use the line- if you are concerned for us, or the baby please do as we have done, pray about it. we are very religious, and very reliant and trusting on our God, so it doesnt bother me to bring Him up in all of this, it does seem to shut them up. they dont want to argue with God.
Good Luck! and email me if you want a copy of my letter
[e-mail]

[MittensKittens]

Not wanting to hijack the thread either and bore you all with specifics, but I did want to make people aware that they could possibly face a similar situation. It seems like this only applies to those having to deal with embassies though. I am sorry the same happened to you, Serena, and I hope it will be easier when your new baby is born . If you do decide to have another UC and think my experience will benefit you, feel free to PM me, or we could start a new thread .