bullying at the bus stop

[Bekka]

DD is a young 11, but is doing great academically in 6th grade, middle school. She has a strong sense of self and values learning and music. She doesn't "get" stuff like dressing"in" and even went so far as to say she doesn't ever want to shop at Aeropostale, FE.

So there is this boy at her bus stop who lives in another cul de sac at the other end of our neighborhood and he hangs with this other kid who lives on the corner of our neighborhood. DD said that yesterday on the bus they were talking to each other loudly about wanting to be rapists when they grow up!! I tried to be really calm and encouraged her to sit by some other nice kids who are respectful and reasonable.

So she gets to the bus stop early this morning and that first kid was there and started talking about that stuff. Trying to talk TO her but we told her she doesn't have to talk to anyone she doesn't want to. She said these kids get really angry at her when she ignores them. I encouraged her to ask the nice girl if they can walk together to the bus stop, or she can just wait and leave a bit later. More kids. What to do else? I really feel like reacting strongly, but she has to learn to deal with this.

Open to feedback/ideas.

[MariaMadly]

Bus stop could be a discipline gray area (re administration, not expectations!), but I would start by checking out the school district's sexual harassment policy.

Start documenting, with quotes if at all possible, dates / times / who was present, etc.

What you described re connecting with other kids sounds helpful and may tide her over this the boys in question let up, but if they persist then it's way too much to ask anyone to handle by herself. Seeing her parent react strongly -- when necessary and appropriate, of course -- DOES help her learn to deal with this.

[BunnySlippers]

At this point it is not her that has to learn to deal with this, she is coming to you her parent/gaurdian because she can't deal with it, and needs someone to show some guidance. Obviously the other kids need some guidance as well.

Get involved. Talk with the driver, the bus company and the principle.

imo- you are teaching her to turn a blind eye and/or be accepting of becoming a victim of assualt. I'd face this one head on.

[Bekka]

Originally Posted by MariaMadly

Bus stop could be a discipline gray area (re administration, not expectations!), but I would start by checking out the school district's sexual harassment policy.

Start documenting, with quotes if at all possible, dates / times / who was present, etc.

What you described re connecting with other kids sounds helpful and may tide her over this the boys in question let up, but if they persist then it's way too much to ask anyone to handle by herself. Seeing her parent react strongly -- when necessary and appropriate, of course -- DOES help her learn to deal with this.

I appreciate this response. This is what DH and I were worried about--this kid may "just be blustering" or "using shock language." I know that in some states the sexual harrassment laws are very strict starting young, and he may not even know the meaning of the word. She didn't remember (we have talked about it many times) what it meant, but knew it was really negative and aggressive speak.

We just wanted to gauge the level of "reaction" vs. "over-reaction." DH said straight to the parents after any other episodes AT ALL and if it becomes direct, i.e., "I want to rape you" instead of "I want to be a rapist when I grow up" then we'd make a police report and school report immediately.

[Bekka]

Our buses are owned by the county; the drivers are I think, privately contracted. Here's what I can find:

"Bus Conduct"
"Profane or indecent language is prohibited at all times."

"Harassment"
"Harassment based upon race, religion, ethnic origin, gender, or ability will not be tolerated...
"'Flagging' or 'panting' is unacceptable behavior under any circumstance while under school authority, on a school bus, on school property, or at a school-sponsored activity....
"...fair and equitable treatment, including freedom from sexual discrimination and harassment. No employee or student...shall ... engage in other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature."

"Any ... student who believes...has been subjected to sexual harrassment... should file a complaint of the alleged act immediately with one of the compliance officers (or teacher)..."

Not really sure whether to call this sexual harassment or verbal bullying. It's very passive aggressive, instead of really direct statements. DH pointed out that if he said "I think when I grow up it would be fun to rape people who play the violin" that would be more direct and specific (dd takes her violin to school every other day).

Anyway, looking out for a pattern--is 2 a pattern? and not planning on letting it continue. Just trying not to jeopardize this kid's academic career when he just may need a strong reprimanding.

Also, I strongly believe that dd needs to be able to have at least some skill at deflecting bullying situations. She's small, smart, and a bit of a nerd, so a target (dh and I both had to deal with "target" stuff). She doesn't fit in socially really well, as described above. That doesn't mean we'll let anything progress. It didn't occur to me to report my bullying situations to my parents or the school authority. I thought I "just had to cope."

[MariaMadly]

Criteria for sexual harassment includes the kind of climate to which a person is subjected. That covers the subtle and "plausibly deniable" speech such as the indirect situation these children are making your daughter (and others?) suffer.

This situation qualifies. ONCE qualifies.

Just saw your comment that the boy may not even know the meaning of the word, but as you say he understands its impact. He knows it's troubling people? Then this is still a case of intimidation.

I think becoming involved will not in any way undermine your DD's capacity to learn coping skills -- a crucial one of which is knowing when to get help. She already exhibited that confidence and trust and you're openly communicating about the situation. Believe me, you are giving her a solid foundation in handling these things and will in no way jeopardize it by advocating for her.

[zebra15]

Just my 2c but my child would not be taking the bus until this was fixed.

[moonshoes]

Originally Posted by MariaMadly

Criteria for sexual harassment includes the kind of climate to which a person is subjected. That covers the subtle and "plausibly deniable" speech such as the indirect situation these children are making your daughter (and others?) suffer.

This situation qualifies. ONCE qualifies.

Just saw your comment that the boy may not even know the meaning of the word, but as you say he understands its impact. He knows it's troubling people? Then this is still a case of intimidation.

I think becoming involved will not in any way undermine your DD's capacity to learn coping skills -- a crucial one of which is knowing when to get help. She already exhibited that confidence and trust and you're openly communicating about the situation. Believe me, you are giving her a solid foundation in handling these things and will in no way jeopardize it by advocating for her.

EXACTLY! Please don't wait to deal with this - next time she may not tell you because nothing was done when she did tell you.

ETA: no child should have to learn to "deal with" sexual harassment and intimidation. Rape really does happen to young girls, and boys who are allowed to intimidate through words quickly learn the power of it. I"m sure there are plenty of boys on that bus who are just as uncomfortable as your daughter - it's not normal for boys to say they want to grow up to be rapists. There's something wrong there. Please put a stop to it.

[pranamama]

I would file a police report.... good luck to you and your daughter

[suabel]

We've already had to deal with bullying on my dd's middle school bus, by girls rather than boys. In this case I knew the perpatrators and called their parents directly and dealt with it. I know that it's a different situation with you, but I vote for helping your daughter deal with this. Of course you can empower her with the strategies, but she's only 11 and I would report this behavior to the bus driver/school.

My personal bias was that I was bullied on my high school bus. A lot. I was terrified to get on the bus. I was one of the last people to get on a crowded bus and I had to "walk the gauntlet" to get to my seat. This included being fondled and harrassed. I had to hear sexual suggestions and vague talk similar to what your daughter hears. My skinny brother tried to protect me, but to no avail. My mom called the school but this was the 80s and no one took her seriously. Once I could drive I took college classes to get driving permission so I could stop riding the bus. To this day, I can feel those hands and hear those words. Those boys were probably using that technique to feel powerful well before they started it with me.

[New_Natural_Mom]

I would report it to the bus driver. These boys need to understand (whether they know what the words mean or not) that this conduct is unacceptable. If you know the parents I would bring it up, and I would probably notify the school. I wouldn't file a police report unless they actually threatened your DD.

[pranamama]

my problem would be their expressing a desire to rape a person and them knowing exactly where your daughter lives. There are juvenile sex offenders out there.