Mothering › Forums › Health › The Case Against Circumcision › Have you heard this one?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Have you heard this one?

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
to the statement that god/nature intended baby boys to have foreskin.

I just heard someone say "I dont buy that - if thats the case i would have very long hairy armpits and legs. Thank goodness for technology."

post #2 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErinsJuneBug View Post
to the statement that god/nature intended baby boys to have foreskin.

I just heard someone say "I dont buy that - if thats the case i would have very long hairy armpits and legs. Thank goodness for technology."

Not heard that one before, but doesnt surprise me. My response would be, "At least that grows back, and YOU as an individual got to make the choice to alter your body."

People never cease to amaze...
post #3 of 14
i would have said:

"well the difference is that your really hairy body is a genetic defect, while foreskin is a PART of the body."

and looked very innocent while saying it.

eta: um, i hate to admit this, but in the interest of not offending naturally-extra-hairy mamas, i must confess that i personally am pretty hairy, and i do find it a genetic defect, personally, and i guess i have dealt with it so long, i can kind of make fun of the situation.
post #4 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErinsJuneBug View Post
to the statement that god/nature intended baby boys to have foreskin.

I just heard someone say "I dont buy that - if thats the case i would have very long hairy armpits and legs. Thank goodness for technology."

let me figure this one out:

ok, foreskin is natural, i.e. god intended it. cutting them off is unnatural.
body hair is natural too, people DO have body hair. cutting it off is unnatural.

but, if, say, I don't shave my legs the hair isn't going to grow so long that its trailing behind me though, so i don't get what that person is trying to say....

I don't get it... can someone explain?
post #5 of 14
Thread Starter 
haha no - she was saying that foreskin is like un-wanted hair and that "thank God" she is able to shave her legs and hack of her sons foreskin.
post #6 of 14
But my leg hair keeps my legs warm in winter so obviously it serves a purpose.

Really though she is making a decision, as a consenting adult, to temporarily make a cosmetic change to her body. Not a permanent cosmetic alteration to someone else's body.

Oh and Hi Erin! We're using Joyce for our HBAC this summer.
post #7 of 14
Yes, I hear all the time that "we trim our hair and nails to look nice, why not our sons' penises?" The other big one is, "oh, I suppose you plan to have him wear his umbilical cord to football practice, too?"

There are common-sense answers to these points (hair and nails are simply protein filaments that extrude and grow back when cut; the umbilical cord falls off of its own accord), but these won't win over someone who simply doesn't like foreskin. They don't intend to think logically or scientifically about it. And they don't care to learn.

To cut off a foreskin, you have to slice through almost a meter of dense vascularization -- and that's blood vessels that perform very valuable functions in the penis. You also cut off muscle tissue and tens of thousands of specialized nerves & nerve endings; the sum total represents between 50% and 70% of the total external skin system of the infant penis. And to perform this surgery on a newborn, an operator first has to lyse the fused tissue of glans and foreskin. It's not loose skin waiting to be cut off.

Both males and females have foreskins. It's just that the relative importance of the foreskin correlates to the developed size and function of the organ, and in the case of the penis it's quite evolved indeed. And don't let anyone tell you it's "vestigial"... a vestige of what, exactly? The only research done to date, at Marshfield Clinic in Wisconsin, concluded that the male human foreskin is actually growing in both length and complexity over tens of thousands of years. In other words, it gets more relevant, not less. If foreskins were unnecessary or even detrimental, the natural selection process of evolution would have long ago favored a short-foreskinned human model. Instead, it pretty definitively favors ever-longer foreskins. We can only speculate why.
post #8 of 14
Unfortunately, I have heard this one.

Hair grows back. Hair doesn't hurt when you cut it. Cutting your hair can be done at home, by a 3 year old if you don't mind how it looks, and even if they mess it up, it can be easily fixed.

A haircut can't kill you. A circ can.


I ultimately came back to this question with:
"So, you're going to have laser hair removal performed on your newborn girl's armpits 2 days after she's born, right?"
post #9 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by erin23kate View Post

I ultimately came back to this question with:
"So, you're going to have laser hair removal performed on your newborn girl's armpits 2 days after she's born, right?"
That is brilliant! I'll have to remember that.
post #10 of 14
I would say (yk cause I'm just as witty when suddenly taken by surprise IRL as I am online where I get to think out my answers )

"Oh, I didn't know your mom got you full body electrolysis when you were born. Could you get me the name of the person who did it, I'm thinking of doing that if the next babies a girl."
post #11 of 14
Yes we cut of hair and fingernails. And it is no big deal, easy to agree that it is a reasonable thing to do, even for our children, for several reasons.

First, doing so causes no pain. They are parts of the body that are shed off, no nerve supply, no blood supply, your body expects to lose them as part of the normal wear and tear of living.

Second, they have little value. They give us a chance to make a fashion statement, but beyond that, their value is pretty minor. Everyone recognizes this.

Third, for some people, in some situations, there are clear benefits to cutting them off. Safety issues, hygiene, the time needed to take care of them if left to grow, etc. Ever have a fingernail break off and bleed?

Now consider foreskins. They are not the same at all.

First, the foreskin is a highly enervated, blood vessel supplied part of the body that does not shed off with wear and tear. Instead it is integral to your body and removing it hurts like hell, based on how babies react. Unbearable pain.

Second, the foreskin is highly valuable. Perhaps some would debate this, but I do not think any reasonable person would. Highly important to sexual function and feelings. For both partners. Once you accept the value, then the whole comparison crumbles into dust.

Third, while some may feel that there are some benefits to removing their foreskin, this is highly debatable. Unlike nails and hair, one needs to carefully analyze the trade offs, to make sure that the benefits of removing this highly valuable and integral part of the body justifies the costs from the negative consequences.

There is a better comparison that they could have used. Compare removing the foreskin to removing the tips of their fingers to prevent nails growth and having to deal with cutting their nails. So much easier. So much cleaner. Solves so many problems that can arise, like ingrown nails, broken nails, etc. People do that with cats, so they stop growing their claws. Simple, doable. Why don't people just do that?

The answer of course, is that we value the finger tips and nails. For good reason. And we should do the same for foreskins.

Regards
post #12 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg B View Post
Yes we cut of hair and fingernails. . . . they have little value.
I'm sure they have survival and reproductive value, which is why they're there. And nails naturally get worn down and hair naturally gets pulled or broken off when it gets too long.

The foreskin naturally feels REALLY good.
post #13 of 14
What a silly argument. The human species is indeed supposed to have hair, the decision to remove it is purely based on fashion.
post #14 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron_Low View Post
I'm sure they have survival and reproductive value, which is why they're there. And nails naturally get worn down and hair naturally gets pulled or broken off when it gets too long.

The foreskin naturally feels REALLY good.
rolls my eyes...I think that is what I said, but you seem to have missed the main point I was trying to make. sigh.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: The Case Against Circumcision
Mothering › Forums › Health › The Case Against Circumcision › Have you heard this one?