Building character at home??

[Dandelionkid]

I believe school really builds kids character. For example, I felt lonely and "on the fringe" in school and grew to be a very compassionate person for the underdog. A good friend of mine has her kids in public school largely to let them develop character through tough times and challenges socially. This makes a lot of sense to me. Of course it can go the other way but I worry that by homeschooling my kids- they won't get the character building that happens through working-out relationships at school. It sounds so silly writing this but this is one of my biggest concerns about homeschooling.
Have you thought of this? What do you think??

[moominmamma]

I disagree. I think people become strong like plants become strong -- by starting with deep roots. I think that childhood is a time to grow deep roots. Later you can challenge the seedling with wind, drought, and deluge and it will probably do just fine because it will have the firm grounding necessary to weather the hardship.

Much of what gets labeled "character building" is actually emotional trauma that kids, as thankfully resilient as they are, gradually get over. But I don't think that "getting over" happens without a cost -- often the result is a subtle emotional guardedness, a "hardening", a wariness, a fear of being hurt, a reticence to commit, a tendency to look to others for approval, to try to please their peers or avoid attracting attention. Growing up tough enough that you can shrug off others' hurts sounds like strength of character, but I think it's hardness of character. True strength of character comes of knowing deep down who you are, and knowing that you are supported and loved for who you are, so that hurts don't damage your sense of your true self.

Many of us view the traumas we went through as kids is something ultimately worthwhile because they made us stronger. I confess I used to believe that myself. But now I think we like to believe that because the alternate interpretation is to awful to contemplate -- that the traumas we went through were entirely useless and unnecessary and wrong, that they should never have happened, that we would have been emotionally healthier people if we'd been protected from those things. That's saying "I went through all that for nothing?!!!" It's not a very welcome conclusion, but I think it's close to the truth.

Two of my kids are now teens. As youngsters they were very much protected from hurtful comments, abusive friendships, exclusionary social tactics, bullying, anxiety-provoking social situations, aggression, power-plays and such. They've grown into very strong people with strong senses of who they are. They shrug off the hurtful language and behaviour of others with no difficulty. They are navigating with the social minefield of teen relationships with confidence and matter-of-fact good sense. Strong roots, I think.

Miranda

[SagMom]

Originally Posted by Dandelionkid

A good friend of mine has her kids in public school largely to let them develop character through tough times and challenges socially.

Homeschooling doesn't mean there are no hard times or challenges. The difference I've seen is that hsed kids have more control over the situation. They still can encounter rude, unfair or mean people, but they 1) have parents available to help them work things out and 2) have the option to NOT be with that person 30 hours a week.

Homeschooled kids still have relationships with friends, and family, neighbors, other kids in groups or classes, employers, instructors--they have to learn to navigate all sorts of social situations--there's no need to put them in a classroom to learn to do so.

[CariOfOz]

I am totally with Miranda on this one. My son would BE the underdog... why should he have to suffer emotional distress at the hands of bullies to 'build character'? I don't think that misery or tough times are necessary for a kid to build character. Kids build character by learning for the adults, and other children around them.

I would much rather have my boys learn those things from me, my dh and other trusted adults... as well as their *chosen* friends (meaning they don't get to pick their friends from JUST the 30kids the state has stuck them with but from the various people we encounter in life) than I would from a classroom of children that they only know because they have no choice. I think they may miss out on the school of hard knocks, but they learn to make better choices without having to go through all that.

[lach]

I'm going to have to sooooo disagree here. I know so many people who are really scarred from their school experiences. My sister is probably the most extreme case that I know of. She was so relentlessly bullied that my parents almost sued the school when it all came out. They decided it would be easier for her to heal if we just tried to move past it. In retrospect, it was probably the wrong move: she absolutely needed therapy and the school should have been held accountable for the situation that they knew was happening, but didn't want to deal with because 2 of the ringleaders were children of staff. She's 27 and is only just now coming out of her shell and able to form relationships with guys. I could write at length about this, but I'll just leave it at: absolutely no character was built from this situation on her part, and in a way her situation destroyed a good part of her life.

Personally, I was never really bullied but I was certainly teased a lot. I was fat, had glasses, frizzy hair, a funny voice, and no real sense on how to dress. I ended up at a small private high school where everyone more or less got along, but I can tell you that there were a few nasty apples who colored my high school experience. One of them showed up at an alumni event recently and I think got drunk and started baiting me, and I felt like I was two inches tall again. It really ruined the event for me.

I think that I'm a really emotionally healthy human being, but I attribute absolutely none of that to people being mean to me at school. I attribute that to having good friends and a strong support system at home. The nasty girls who said mean things to me just made me feel bad about myself, and I'll probably always carry a little bit of that with me.

[Daffodil]

Add me to the list of people who disagree. One of the reasons DP and I liked the idea of homeschooling was that we both had scarring experiences with being the underdog at school. Especially when he was younger, I think DP spent a lot more time fantasizing about revenge than thinking compassionately about other underdogs. He's still pretty fond of a good revenge story. He also has social phobia. When I was in elementary school, I didn't wish everyone would just be nice; I fantasized about being one of a group of popular kids, and being mean to all the kids I didn't like. I think we both grew up to be compassionate people, but I'm not sure being the underdog actually encouraged that.

[proudmamanow]

I agree that being able to shelter my dds from bullying at a young age, and intolerance\homophobia (an issue in our particular case) are some of my main reasons for wanting to homeschool. I want them to grow into strong people before they are exposed to that kind of relentless peer influence. I was occasionally bullied & teased at school and I have lifelong insecurities as a result. And I see some of my friends' four year olds being forcred to confront teasing & social pressure way before they are ready by being exposed to older kids at school.

In my case, dd1 is actually more likely to bully than be bullied--she is a bright, articulate, anxious girl, not especially empathetic, who often expresses her anxiety by trying to control others and exclude others. I would much rather she be kept close to us to be coached to deal with these issues & learn compassion for others, rather than have her leadership qualities be negatively channelled in the dog-eat-dog social settings of elementary school.

[ColwynsMommy]

I think Miranda said it perfectly. Homeschooled kids have challenges, too, but the difference is they're not left alone to deal with it. Adults are present more fully in their lives and are able to give more support and coaching. I don't think that any of the hurts I dealt with in school did anything to build my character. They were just more things to overcome on the road to finding and learning to love myself.

There are plenty of opportunities to instill values and character. If you want your child to have empathy for the underdog, then there are tons of community service opportunities that can help you there. Volunteerism seems like a much more healthy way to build character than to throw a child into a school environment.

[CariOfOz]

Originally Posted by proudmamanow

In my case, dd1 is actually more likely to bully than be bullied--she is a bright, articulate, anxious girl, not especially empathetic, who often expresses her anxiety by trying to control others and exclude others. I would much rather she be kept close to us to be coached to deal with these issues & learn compassion for others, rather than have her leadership qualities be negatively channelled in the dog-eat-dog social settings of elementary school.

Funny you mention that, my almost 6yo is that way, he's not intentionally nasty... he just doesn't htink before he acts and often says/does things that upset or hurt others. If he were in a classroom/on the playground at school, he would have the influence of kids laughing and encouraging this kind of behavior... whereas at home he has me and his brothers telling him why it is not ok. And at the hs gatherings we frequent, most of the other parents would not hesitate to bring him to me so I could talk to him if he were misbehaving.

One good way to think of this is, would you find it character building if YOUR child was picking on/ bullying another child? (for the other child that is)

[AJP]

I carry scars from social trauma in school. My character came from experiences outside of school. The scars interfere with the expression of my character. I cannot imagine subjecting my kids to the same scarring experiences simply in the name of "building character".

[momtokea]

Originally Posted by moominmamma

I disagree. I think people become strong like plants become strong -- by starting with deep roots. I think that childhood is a time to grow deep roots. Later you can challenge the seedling with wind, drought, and deluge and it will probably do just fine because it will have the firm grounding necessary to weather the hardship.

Much of what gets labeled "character building" is actually emotional trauma that kids, as thankfully resilient as they are, gradually get over. But I don't think that "getting over" happens without a cost -- often the result is a subtle emotional guardedness, a "hardening", a wariness, a fear of being hurt, a reticence to commit, a tendency to look to others for approval, to try to please their peers or avoid attracting attention. Growing up tough enough that you can shrug off others' hurts sounds like strength of character, but I think it's hardness of character. True strength of character comes of knowing deep down who you are, and knowing that you are supported and loved for who you are, so that hurts don't damage your sense of your true self.

Many of us view the traumas we went through as kids is something ultimately worthwhile because they made us stronger. I confess I used to believe that myself. But now I think we like to believe that because the alternate interpretation is to awful to contemplate -- that the traumas we went through were entirely useless and unnecessary and wrong, that they should never have happened, that we would have been emotionally healthier people if we'd been protected from those things. That's saying "I went through all that for nothing?!!!" It's not a very welcome conclusion, but I think it's close to the truth.

Two of my kids are now teens. As youngsters they were very much protected from hurtful comments, abusive friendships, exclusionary social tactics, bullying, anxiety-provoking social situations, aggression, power-plays and such. They've grown into very strong people with strong senses of who they are. They shrug off the hurtful language and behaviour of others with no difficulty. They are navigating with the social minefield of teen relationships with confidence and matter-of-fact good sense. Strong roots, I think.

Miranda

And this is why I stalk Miranda around the internet Because everything she says makes so much sense and I totally agree with it, yet I never could have said it better.

Show me a beat-up, teased, abused child that is "better off" than one that has been loved and appreciated all their life. Seriously. My children are very compassionate people, and they didn't need to go through tough times and challenges to become that way. Actually, if they did I think they would be hardened, angry and cruel.

[Dandelionkid]

Thanks everyone. I really appreciate the perspective. Perhaps school social challenges can be an opportunity to build a childs character but they are certainly not a guarantee or the best way to go about doing it. I like the foundation perspective- build a good foundation so they can manage life problems as they come.

[NaturalMamma]

Originally Posted by Dandelionkid

Thanks everyone. I really appreciate the perspective. Perhaps school social challenges can be an opportunity to build a childs character but they are certainly not a guarantee or the best way to go about doing it. I like the foundation perspective- build a good foundation so they can manage life problems as they come.

If you're really worried about the character-building your child will miss from not being in a formal school setting, you could periodically steal her lunch, knock her books off the table and make her pay you to not beat her up.

Sorry...I couldn't resist.

[Dandelionkid]

Originally Posted by NaturalMamma

If you're really worried about the character-building your child will miss from not being in a formal school setting, you could periodically steal her lunch, knock her books off the table and make her pay you to not beat her up.

Sorry...I couldn't resist.

Wellllll....when you put it that way it REALLY puts it in perspective

[Dandelionkid]

Originally Posted by moominmamma

Many of us view the traumas we went through as kids is something ultimately worthwhile because they made us stronger. I confess I used to believe that myself. But now I think we like to believe that because the alternate interpretation is to awful to contemplate -- that the traumas we went through were entirely useless and unnecessary and wrong, that they should never have happened, that we would have been emotionally healthier people if we'd been protected from those things. That's saying "I went through all that for nothing?!!!" It's not a very welcome conclusion, but I think it's close to the truth.
Miranda

I really like this thought. Very new to me but makes perfect sense.

[Lillian J]

My son was homeschooled all but kindergarten and 1st grade, and I think anyone would be hard pressed to find a young man with a finer character. He has some wonderful friends who have fine character and were also homeschooled - and he has friends with fine character who went to school but didn't suffer any particular hardships there. I strongly disagree with the idea that someone needs to go through hardships in order to develop empathy, compassion, or character - that has not at all been what I've seen to be true. What I've seen is that growing up in a healthy and nurturing environment can leave a child free to grow up as someone who can relate to others in a healthy and nurturing way.

Lillian

[sierramv]

I love what Miranda says here. This is the number one comment I get from ALL my family members about my son being homeschooled. "He needs to learn to deal with other kids and learn to get along." UGH! I am constantly saying, "no he needs to learn what a healthy relationship is and feel like he is being supported and encourage, not berated and knocked down." Then comes the "it builds character". I get soo mad, as to imply that I need to send my child to school so that he can "toughen up".

My Dad even comes over and "teases" him because that's what he would get in school. Can you believe it. I tell him, that all that is doing is causing him to be defensive and fresh, nothing good can come out of that. Sometimes I think the adults should take a lesson from my 7 year old.

[elizawill]

my children have never been to school, but we've had plenty of opportunity dealing with all of the drama life has to offer. imho, unless your kids never leave home or have no peer interaction, the same situations will likely occur, just in smaller & more manageable doses. ykwim? or at least this has been our experience.

[lmonter]

Originally Posted by lach

I'm going to have to sooooo disagree here. I know so many people who are really scarred from their school experiences.

Count in me (6th grade teacher berated me for liking Nancy Drew - from 1990-2002 I didn't pick up a single book to read for pleasure, and I still can barely do more than read about gardening and hs'ing and romance novels), my sister (raped by two high school football stars, who then later threatened to kill her if she told anyone), my hubby (was a smart track star nerd), and SIL (who, along with MIL, got death threats at one particular school).
I'm okay with sheltering my kids from that kind of thing, honestly.
And I grew up in a modest college town - not even close to a big city, same with hubby and SIL, too. You don't even want to know what happens in small towns where the school's population is 100 kids from K-12, oh, the stories I've heard over the years from my parents (more g-rated) and my cousins (not for dinner table conversation).

Originally Posted by elizawill

my children have never been to school, but we've had plenty of opportunity dealing with all of the drama life has to offer. imho, unless your kids never leave home or have no peer interaction, the same situations will likely occur, just in smaller & more manageable doses.

I like that, smaller doses of it all.

Originally Posted by moominmamma

I disagree. I think people become strong like plants become strong -- by starting with deep roots. I think that childhood is a time to grow deep roots. Later you can challenge the seedling with wind, drought, and deluge and it will probably do just fine because it will have the firm grounding necessary to weather the hardship.

Stated so well. I love it.

[Needle in the Hay]

Dandelionkid, I think it can turn out that way, as it did in your case, but is not the norm. You probably would have been a compassionate person in any case. Some people might have been the type to root for the underdog but they are so damaged from getting knocked down that it makes them feel better to be the one to do the knocking when they get the chance.

Kids who don't grow up in a world where relentless teasing, laughing like crazy when a kid falls off his chair rather than wondering if he's OK, everyone deciding that one kid is an untouchable, etc. seem normal do tend to see those things as wrong when they encounter them. And if they don't, they'll soon have their parent talking to them about it, such as one time when my son went along with another child's plan to block a third child from getting on the play structure with them. My son has not done that since, but I don't know if I can say the same of the kid whose plan it was--I don't think his parent was really even watching him, which tends to be the norm where we live.

Essentially every child we encounter outside of homeschool group meet-ups goes to school. Homeschooling is very rare where we live so I can just about be sure of this. We meet all types, from the exceptionally sweet to the much less so, but the only time we really have problems is when there is a school group at the playground. Many schools don't have playgrounds so occasionally on a fine day they'll be brought to a public one. I would have never believed the nasty, spiteful behavior that 5 year-olds can be capable of if I hadn't seen it for myself. It's shocking, really. So no, I don't think putting my son (who is 8) in such an environment is anywhere near the best way to help him grow into a caring, compassionate man (which at this point he is certainly on his way to becoming).