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Loosing control with almost 5 yo SN DS2

post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 
I am at my wits end with DS2.

For example, it has been a struggle this evening. Here is what we have to deal with. Ate just a couple of bits at the table. Then an hour later, he wants food - anything but what he was given for dinner. Refused and sent him to bed, because I am so tired of making 5 meals.

Next was brushing teeth - got into it was Dad and rub his toothpaste off the brush all over the sink because DH wouldn't let him put it on the brush himself.

I come to deal with it...he has taken DD2's small pony tail holders (those very tiny newborn use elastic bands that are about 1/4 from side to side) and had them at the base of all his fingers. I walk into the room where they are (on top of DS1's dresser in a storage organizer), and at some point in time he had dumped all DD2's hair stuff out of the little containers and now the only things left are the elastic and a few of the ribbons, barets, etc.

Then, he was jumping on the bed, after having already been warned once. I get up and go upstairs and tell him he is grounded. Starting Saturday he will help us remove his bed (A few years ago Santa brought him a race car bed from little tykes). I tell him I am done, and after tonight he will be sleeping on the floor and can earn his bed back. (Ok, at this point, I have lost it and am sternly and loudly telling him all this.) I also tell him that he will get no stories or anything tonight.

Right now we are having major melt down, that has been going on since the whole toothpaste issue. to the point he is hysterically crying, banging on doors to get into them.

He is so hard to deal with - I literally have to watch him constantly while at home. It is to the point I can hardly send him up to the bathroom by himself, without him making some huge mess (last mess was unrolling every single roll of toilet paper we had). We have to sit upstairs until he is asleep, otherwise he will sneak (he is very sneaky and quiet) out of his bed and get into trouble - last week he took my facial powder makeup and dumped the entire thing through out the upstairs hall (and it was fairly new), and he also took Sharpis to part of a wall in the hall and in our bedroom.

Another example - before Christmas, he bit a kid in the play area before school. The other kid was pushing on him, and he got frustrated and could not get out to stop to this other kid. I told him he needed to go appologize. He became very stubborn, obstinate and refused. I told him if he didn't appologize he was grounded from the play area until after Christmas break was over. He continued to be stubborn and refused to do anything. So, I told him he couldn't go to school that, because he was not behaving in an a way the school expects him to and I wont have him biting someone or just standing there with arms crossed. He refused to even go to the car. The director of the program had to step in because we had been playing this game of his for 20 minutes at that point.

Bed time is taking hours, he is not sleeping. last night - he took till about 10 pm to go to sleep. I went upstairs (DD2 had woken up with horrible gas and we were still up and about as a result), and he was wide awake and stalking about the hallway. He ran and hid under the covers of my bed. DH said when he woke up at 6:30 this morning, DS2 was wide awake and play. This afternoon he napped for about 45 minutes.

We have other issues as well - constantly chewing on anything and everything. Putting anything and everything into his mouth. DH and I already want to do a consult with the Ped, but need to get it scheduled. If it helps any DS1 has been diagnosed with sleep apnea (we believe DH has and we know FIL has it as he is on a CPAP)
post #2 of 10
You didnt specify whats DS DX is, bu I will take a guess there are senory issues run amuck here. My dd has SPD/ASD. When shes not had eneugh OT or something hass gone crazy in her system shes has control issues. Her body is out of control so she takes the control back wherever she can. Sleep is non existant when this happens usually too. Is this a possibility?

Sarah
post #3 of 10
I'm guessing "sensory issues run amuck" too. My son is like that in a lot of ways. His diagnosis is autism spectrum (w/the sensory stuff that I think is behind a lot of the seeming destructive part) and his impulse control and emotional regulation are very poor. Your son sounds a lot like him in many ways.

I get the frustration and anger and exhaustion with it all. It seems with my son (and I suspect yours) that consequences and my frustration don't curb the stuff I want to discourage.

The only thing that's been somewhat successful with my son is the Nurtured Heart Approach by Glasser (his new book All Children Flourishing specifically) along with/combined with some things from Kid Cooperation by Elizabeth Pantley.

They go well together and have a completely different approach than what you're describing (and what comes so naturally here when I'm at the end of my rope with the constant destruction and cleaning up and fixing snacks 30 minutes after dinner and fits that just keep going and on and on...a lot does sound soooo familiar). I guess my message is what you're doing isn't working (doesn't work here either) and so switch it completely ala the two books I suggested and see if it works better. I suspect it will. It still isn't easy though, especially when I lapse back into my old approaches.
post #4 of 10
Thread Starter 
Sorry, actually no, his only diagnosis is speech apraxia, but it was done 2 1/2 years ago. I know his last speech eval came back with articulation disorder because he is still working on isolating and getting most of the sounds but will jabber away under normal conversation.
post #5 of 10
I agree with sbgrace. There have been times I've been harsh with ds and felt so completely justified. It leads to really bad behavior from ds. But I think I finally realize that his reaction is a reflection of what I'm doing. When you're feeling hurt and misunderstood, it's easier to become apathetic and beligirent. I think you start to feel no one is going to be on your side anyway, so why not make hell.
post #6 of 10
Has he ever been assessed for sensory issues?

I would imagine you've got at least impulse/emotional reg stuff (not unusual among kids) based on what you describe.

No matter the issues or lack of though I recommend those books for a new and hopefully more successful approach.

Five has been really hard w. both my kids--typical & sp. needs.
post #7 of 10
Thread Starter 
I will try to find those books.

I remember 5 being hard with DS1, but we attributed a lot of it to his sleep apnea issues that were unresolved and fighting to get the sleep study done with the Ped.

DS2 turns 5 in 2 months.

I have suspected some sensory issues for a bit now (a few months). He HATES loud noises - runs from the vacuum; the fan in a public bathroom will keep him from going in. He is also sensitive to smells - if a bathroom stinks he will refuse to go in even if DH and I find that it is not horrible.

But the worst is the constant need to have things in his mouth and chew. This has been going on since he was a little baby. Back then I attributed the chewing on hard things as teething. But it has never gone away. He will pull rubber tires off of hotwheels and chew on them; he will chew gun; for a while he would chew his food till it was basically non-existent.

I did go to the SPD page and filled out some of the areas they were asking questions about. DH and I have a few things we put as ? marks, some of them were beyond his age level, but in a few areas we have most of the items listed marked.

3. Poor Tactile Perception And Discrimination:
_X_ has difficulty with fine motor tasks such as buttoning, zipping, and fastening clothes
__ may not be able to identify which part of their body was touched if they were not looking
_X_ may be afraid of the dark
_?_ may be a messy dresser; looks disheveled, does not notice pants are twisted, shirt is half un tucked, shoes are untied, one pant leg is up and one is down, etc.
__ has difficulty using scissors, crayons, or silverware
_X_ continues to mouth objects to explore them even after age two
__ has difficulty figuring out physical characteristics of objects; shape, size, texture, temperature, weight, etc.
_?_ may not be able to identify objects by feel, uses vision to help; such as, reaching into backpack or desk to retrieve an item

Auditory-Language Processing Dysfunction:
__ unable to locate the source of a sound
__ difficulty identifying people's voices
__ difficulty discriminating between sounds/words; i.e., "dare" and "dear"
__ difficulty filtering out other sounds while trying to pay attention to one person talking
_?_ bothered by loud, sudden, metallic, or high-pitched sounds
_?_ difficulty attending to, understanding, and remembering what is said or read; often asks for directions to be repeated and may only be able to understand or follow two sequential directions at a time
_?_ looks at others to/for reassurance before answering
_X_ difficulty putting ideas into words (written or verbal)
_?_ often talks out of turn or "off topic"
_X_ if not understood, has difficulty re-phrasing; may get frustrated, angry, and give up
__ difficulty reading, especially out loud (may also be dyslexic)
_X_ difficulty articulating and speaking clearly

(the three ? ones are based upon stuff from his IEP placement teachers last year and services they put into place for him this year for it; but it is generally not seen outside of that setting. He is only in pre-school so he is not reading yet; but we are having issues with letter recognition but are not sure if that is age or something else related)
post #8 of 10
it seems he's dealing with a LOT more than speech apraxia.

he's clearly snesory seeking:

rubbing off the toothpaste, putting tight bands on his fingers, running and hiding under covers, running amuck in the hallway. he body is clearly not knwoing how to undwind and sleep.

could be diet, (allergens or simply too much sugar/dyes etc) or it could be SPD.

I think you need ot go to www.sensory-processing-disorder.com and get him re-evaled so he can get some helps so you both can have some sleep!

((hugs)) I have 2 kids that are sensory seekers and don't sleep. I feel for you! trust me!
post #9 of 10
sorry I realized just now you did go fill itout. but really? you totally decribed my SPD daughter ahwn describing your son. you need to get him evaled and learn some wys ot help his body calm down or you'll not see ANY improvement in his behaviour no matter what you threaten, punishing, discipline or try to reason with him about. infact it will likely get much worse instead.

((hugs))
post #10 of 10
Thread Starter 
I think DH and I are both on the same page about going to the Ped for a consult and seeing what else can be done.

I have always been worried about the chewing, but people kept suggesting I go get him those Chewy necklaces to chew on, and thought it was related to his ST and maybe needing to strengthen muscles.

He has had issues last year at school, but the teachers are seeing improvement this year in those areas, but they say he is also the one of oldest in the class and is taking on more of a leadership role.

It was at the point at the end of the year, they were talking about evaling him for ADHD. He would sit for story time, listen to the story, but because you didn't call on him right away, he would just look at you and shrug when asking him questions. He is not wanting to wait his turn, he is always wanting to do stuff for his teachers to the point his school had to start assigning daily jobs to kids otherwise DS2 would jump up and go do it before anyone else.

He still has frustration with getting his words out, especially when he is upset or frustrated or in a hurry. Those times often make it hard if not impossible for him to communicate.

He is also very loud all the time. No matter how often we remind him to lower his voice, it never gets down to a conversational tone. His hearing generally checks out fine.
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